As long as we're debating the space program, I think serious attention needs to be paid to the question of whether manned missions make sense. The romantic in me loves them. I recall Mercury/Gemini/Apollo fondly. But Ames and others raise a serious point that science suffers from all the resources lavished on propelling man to space. Others argue that only man is adaptable enough to respond to the the situation on hand; they also raise shuttle servicing of Hubble. Meanwhile, others rebut the utility of shuttle/hubble by pointing out that a cheaper and shorter term telescope could be placed, and replaced for less than the cost of shuttle servicing. And the subsequent editions would benefit from advances in technology, and, shall we say, adaptations to what has been found already. Maybe the short term solution with no human servicing is the more adaptable approach. No one argues that serious science is now occurring on the space station--undermanned so that housekeeping tasks consume the crew, and this was true before the leak was discovered. Yes, the water bubble were neat--I enjoyed seeing them--but it's not worth $60 billion (or whatever an honest accounting would reveal as the true cost). Some bash Bush, without reflecting that the immediate Hubble crisis arises from the destruction of Columbia, and the frantic demands on the shuttle for the ISS pork in the sky. At this point, I have heard no one put forward a serious argument that the shuttle has advanced science when weighed against its opportunity cost. It has, in fact, been a disaster. Then, the libertarian in me questions whether there should be any government money devoted to these causes, just because I happen to favor them. Can I add that I'm tired of the Saganized NASA that seems to think that the only reason for visiting the planets is the very slim chance of discovering life (my estimate is that buying a lottery ticket represents a better probability, and I've never bought a lottery ticket)? Sure, some are captivated by this. But there is so much more Saganquest that makes the planets and moons interesting... There is much to discuss, even leaving aside politics. But ignorant bashes are soooo tiresome. Cheers, Jim ---- Jim Cobb james@cobb.name