Sorry, it was Ian who had to leave at 8:30. And IMHO, most of the point he was trying to make about M uslim society was not specifically spelled out by him. He presented the example and left the listerner to figure out the implications and apply them. During th e golden age of Islam, Muslims named most of the stars in the sky, nam es we still use today. During the golden age of Islam , Muslims created a numeric system we use in America today. During the golden age of Islam, Muslims created Algebra, a mathematical system we still use today. Then the Muslim faith was codified and scientific and mathematical progress came to a scree ching halt. Muslins today are going to engineering, medical and business school. W hat they are doing with that knowledge? Are they taking their education back to the Muslim world and moving it forward? There are many places throughout the 1.4 billion Muslims where there never have been, to this day, electricity or running water. The majority of the 1.4 billion Muslims are living on a poverty level . There is a wealthy ruling class, a knowledgeable class, but they aren't sharing the knowledge for everyone's benefit. T hey aren't engineering aquiducts or water systems to reach the impoverished . They aren't stringing electrical wire, or advancing solar energy to move their society forward . Nine hundred years later, the Muslim world is still standing still. And the rest of world quakes in fear of jihadists . At least that's the implication I took away from that one example.