Patrick, you don't seem to grasp the situation. Just to reiterate, here is what Matt politely asked concerning a star party at a school in Herriman, Salt Lake County: "The school where I work would like to host a star party on 27 September 2015 from 5:45 pm to 9:45 pm. Their interest is in the lunar eclipse, solar observations, and other astronomical phenomena. I, unfortunately, will not be able to participate. Please let me know if any of you would be willing to help the school out, especially if you have a telescope that you would be willing to use. Please email me for further details at astromatt1 at yahoo.com. Please note, he was not asking SLAS to do anything. He wanted to know "if any of you would be willing to help the school out" during the lunar eclipse. Also note that totality starts at 8:11 p.m. our time -- exactly within the time that Matt asked for help. The earlier period falls within the "solar observations" for which Matt asked help. Then read Siegfried's reply to Matt: "The Salt Lake Astronomical Society already has its own eclipse watch scheduled and we need to decline your invitation. We invite you to join us at the Bangerter Crossing Harmons store located at 13800 South Bangerter Highway." When did Matt request SLAS as an organization do anything at all? I'd like the representative of the group who took it upon himself to slap down the question to explain that one. Seems pretty self-centered to assume that anything posted on Utah-Astronomy calls for an official SLAS club response. And he invites whom to "join us"? All the students at the school who might have been able to enjoy a lunar eclipse, with telescopes, at a location near their homes? But to continue quoting Siegfried: "Matt, your time suggestion is not good for this time of year. It doesn't get dark enough for astronomy until 7:30 or so. The Moon doesn't rise above the mountainous horizon until 8:00 PM depending on exact location." What about his time suggestion "is not good for this time of year," when it happens to be exactly within the period of lunar eclipse. The fact that he asked for help even before (and including) that time implies that it would be really nice if a friendly person from SLAS would talk to the students ahead of time, telling them about eclipses and how the bodies of the solar system make these rare phenomena happen. I wonder why it is that Matt, Chuck and I saw immediately that the response was hostile and completely inappropriate. If you can tell me what his time suggestion "is not good," I'd appreciate it. So the moon doesn't rise until shortly before totality -- so what? Is that a good provocation to tell someone his request "is not good"? Nice response from an officer of SLAS in talking to a JPL and NASA ambassador seeking help for school children. But then, standards of polite discourse seem to have gone into the dumpster. Patrick, you said Siegfried said others can help out. How generous of him. But note that happened only after Chuck, Matt (by withdrawing from the email list) and I had already called Siegfried out for his extreme rudeness. The fact is, Siegfried comes across as so full of himself that he delights in putting down people, even a school person asking for help so students can learn about and watch the lunar eclipse. Please explain that one, Patrick, since you say you have to agree with Siegfried on it. Where is the sense of openness and outreach to the public? I thought that was one of the main purposes of SLAS, not self-aggrandizement by saying we have the only show in town and to hell with any kids who want to learn. Why should Salt Lake County continue to provide ZAP grant funding for a club with such an arrogant attitude toward helping school children? How shameful. -- Joe Bauman From: Wiggins Patrick <paw@digis.net> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2015 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Herriman Star Party Horror of horrors but I find myself in agreement with Siegfried on this. I thought I might have missed a post so went to the archive (https://mailman.xmission.com/lurker/list/utah-astronomy.en.html) and all I could find was Siegfried's message stating SLAS policy. Honestly I really don't see anything rude about that. There have been a number of replies to requestors like that before. And Siegfried even added that SLAS members are welcome to help out if they chose. Seemed like a pretty businesslike reply. Now as for the continuation of the thread between him and Joan, I was very uncomfortable with that and wish they'd taken that off list. But that had nothing to do with Matt. patrick On 21 Sep 2015, at 22:55, Siegfried Jachmann <siegfried@jachmann.org> wrote:
Joe, Chuck,
You might consider contacting him and offering your services.
I was only speaking for the official SLAS position. It is not an invitation we could accept. I don't know how my response to Matt was extremely rude. I could not say yes. We try not to split our resources
Is it "shabby treatment" to turn down a request?
Bottom line is everyone is free to choose where they see the eclipse or which event, if any, to support. I am hoping that SLAS members will come out in numbers to support this event at Harmons
Siegfried
On Mon, Sep 21, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Joe Bauman via Utah-Astronomy < utah-astronomy@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I thought the response to him was extremely rude. Please convey that to him, Chuck. Please let him know that we welcome him. I was going to say something at the time but, frankly, I was intimidated.
Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 21, 2015, at 7:35 PM, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@gmail.com> wrote:
Folks, Matt Turnbaugh has unsubscribed from utah-astronomy. The response he got to his request could have been more diplomatic, and the argument afterwards (and still in progress, apparently) probably painted SLAS in a less than flattering light.
Kind of shabby treatment for a JPL/NASA Ambassador to Utah.
I will be emailing him shortly to apologize on behalf of utah-astronomy. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
-- Siegfried _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy
Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com
The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club.
To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".
_______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Send messages to the list to Utah-Astronomy@mailman.xmission.com The Utah-Astronomy mailing list is not affiliated with any astronomy club. To unsubscribe go to: http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Then enter your email address in the space provided and click on "Unsubscribe or edit options".