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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Dave's & Brent's tests
by David Dunn 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

I agree that more sessions would be beneficial. My conclusions change frequently as I am always being taught new things. I guess the thing that I was taught on Friday night was to look at the planet both ways and to see if I can see any improvement by using the filter. I think that to get everything out of it I may have to study the planet using both techniques. Hopefully we can have many more observing sessions where we can exchange ideas and techniques. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Hards [mailto:chuckhards@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 12:29 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Dave's & Brent's tests Sorry I can't recall the name of this thread, but I've had to do a lot of deleting today to keep my mailbox from filling up, inevitably wiped a few that I wanted to respond-to in depth. Anyway.... C'mon, guys, you're drawing a conclusion from one outing, with one filter? I have used a blue filter many times to increase the visibility of festoons at the edge of the equatorial belts. These are tiny details that you won't see at low powers and probably won't see through even thin cloud and less than perfect seeing. I'm not talking about the largish shear features, resembling "fingers" that most commonly are seen, but small, delicate wisps at the edge of resolution. I think when Mars comes into opposition you will have more dramitic opportunities to experience the advantages of filters. Your and Brent's descriptions tell me that you're not looking for details that a filter can actually help bring-out. You're still expecting an "Ah-ha" experience....this is more subtle than that. C. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Eyepiece seminar
by David Dunn 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

Chuck, I would still be willing to pay more to make my own eyepiece. I would like to have the experience. I think that even $50 would be worth the experience of building the eyepiece. -----Original Message----- From: Chuck Hards [mailto:chuckhards@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:07 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Eyepiece seminar I spent several hours over the weekend looking for lenses for the seminar eyepiece kits, and was disappointed in the selection I found. There are far fewer appropriate lenses in the surplus market today, than there were 3 years ago when I was heavily involved in eyepiece making. I did find some lenses good for symmetricals & Plossls, as well as a couple of triplets that might work for orthos, however prices have risen in the last few years. If it looks like lens prices alone will exceed fifteen dollars, I'm less inclined to make the effort. I would have to sell all of these kits to make it worthwhile, and once you get around $20-$25, there isn't much motivation to make your own eyepiece other than curiosity. Bill Kelley has contacted me regarding some nice little achromats that will work, if we can get enough of them. (Thanks, Bill!) My own parts bins have only enough lenses for perhaps four or five eyepieces right now. Stay tuned. C. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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Color Filters
by David Dunn 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

I want to send this off before I read what Brent wrote about the little filter test that we did on Friday night. I do want to point out that Chuck, Brent and other still need to get together and try the filter comparison. We spent a couple of hours on Friday night looking at Saturn and Jupiter as well as some double stars. There was a high, thin layer of clouds that made galaxies and nebulas look real dim. We didn't play with the filters at all on Saturn. It was real pretty. We saw enke's minima and the gossimer ring in by the planet. I was unable to run my 8" telescope at anywhere near the power that Brent had his telescope running. I think that both of my Barlows are bad and I need to purchase a new one. The image simply went fuzzy and wouldn't focus properly. Eventually we looked at Jupiter. In Brent's scope, at high power, I could clearly see the the GRS. It had a nice eyebrow above it. I could also see that along the two main cloud bands there was some faint cloud structure. When we looked through the 80A filter the faint structure went away. In fact the cloud band actually appeared to shrink by that much thickness. When I went back to my 8" scope, I couldn't see the structure. Since I couldn't make the planet any bigger, I put the filter on the eyepiece. I couldn't see any extra detail to anything that was visible. I could see more cloud bands. The conclusion that I have come to is, that color filters are useful to bring out coarse detail at low power. It will show the public that Jupiter has a bunch of cloud bands instead of just two when you are running low power at a public star party. If you really want to see the fine details, you need to run the power way up and leave off the filter. Dave

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] White flare
by David Dunn 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

That sounds right. I was guessing that it was something to do with the angles that we were viewing from. I was just trying to compare your picture to what I remember seeing. -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gibson [mailto:xajax99@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 10:50 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] White flare Dave Patrick Wiggins, Steve Nielsen, myself and others, who's names I can't recall at the moment, all witnessed a puff, or flair with the unaided eye from almost directly under the orbiter. If an object were at a lower altitude than the orbiter, it would appear to us as being on the same level as the orbiter. Considering where you were located south of St. George, and if an object were at a lower altitude the observed object may appear to be on the left side of the orbiter as viewed from your location even though the object may have drifted to the right. From the distances we are talking about it would be difficult to say where the object was from one position. I believe what you saw was at a lower altitude thereby making it appear to the left. What do you think? Jim David Dunn <david.dunn(a)albertsons.com> wrote: Jim, In the picture that you are describing, it looks like the shuttle is still coming towards us. Would this mean that the long streak is going down the right side of the shuttle? The reason I ask is that I saw several of these visually with my binoculars and they all appears to be on the left side when it was coming towards me and on the right side when it was going away. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gibson [mailto:xajax99@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:17 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] White flare Patrick Would you mind adding the enlarged photo to your web so otheres can see what we are talking about? I have studied the photo for a while. Keeping in mind that my shutter was open for 8 seconds, that would correspond to the bright pink contrail. The gray contrail before that would have occured before the shutter was opened. I would intrupret the first jiggle in the pink contrail as my hand touching off photo. Then I see the the pink contrail stabalizing of a short time indicated by its straightness. Then I see a new bright pink line appear on the right side of the photo corresponding to the shuttles left side and immediately crossing over to the opposite side. The original contrail remains relatively stable while the new trail is pronounsly serpintine. That to me says that the camera was not jiggling because original contrail remains straight. I would ask for insight form all who wish to express it. I am most intrested in an accurate interpretation of the photo, and Patrick, yours my well be the correct one. What do otheres think. If it's nothing, its nothing. I had thought that the second pink line might be a blast form the course adjustment rocket, but on closer inspection I don't think we could see blue sky between the two contrails if it were and the shuttles course was not altered that I could tell. Jim Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)trilobyte.net> wrote: As with my answer to your other post, I invite others to correct me if necessary, but I'm pretty sure the multiple tracks and "flares" in your image were caused by the camera being moved while the shuttle was open. Patrick Jim Gibson wrote: > > Attached is the enlarged section of the flair-out. I think the first giggle > is me touching off the camera. The contrail Then stabilizes. Subsequently a > flair-out begins on the right side and moves immideatly to the left side of > the contrail. I read your post about the timing of the event that may coincide > with the heating of the tires. I can not discount the possibility of a jet > blast corresponding to a course correction. Of course, I am no expert in these > things.t _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> now _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> now

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Filter seminar
by Chuck Hards 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

Hi Jim: Sorry this reply took so long, I'm still off-line at home, and actually took Sunday off for a change. Rich and Brent covered it pretty well, this little experiment does require a few controls. As I said the other day, I also think that a variety of seeing conditions may be required. It may not be a one-night experiment. One of the reasons often cited for using colored filters is that sometimes, a night of marginal seeing can be partly compensated-for with proper filtration, and I want to test this also. My work schedule will probably preclude me from participating if it's done in the next 6 to 8 weeks, unless it's very close to home and preferably on a Saturday night, but I want to express my ideas on the direction the activity should follow, since it was my idea originally. Afterwards, there may be a meeting's worth of information that can be presented to everyone. It can then be tried again in a star-party environment. C. --- Jim Gibson <xajax99(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > Chuck Jim Gibson here: > > I have been reading with Great interest about what > has become The filter seminar. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Mourning
by Kim Hyatt 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

Oops, I just posted a message I really meant to got to Brent, personally. Sorry. However, the sentiments I expressed I share with all - astronomers are special people and I consider all of you among my best friends. I may not be able to respond personally to everyone today and later, but thank you all for your condolences. Yes, my Mom was great to be sure we had exposure to the wonders of the natural world, including the night sky. She also made sure we made numerous trips to Griffith Planetarium/Obserfvatory when we lived in southern California. I owe to her my own interest in astronomy, mountains, and numerous other things. Moms are indeed great, aren't they? -----Original Message----- From: RStmarie(a)aol.com [mailto:RStmarie@aol.com] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:42 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mourning Kim, My condolences on your loss. That's a pretty great mom who goes to watch satellites with her boys! Bob St. Marie

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] Mourning
by Kim Hyatt 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

Thanks, Brent. Your concern is touching. You're right - as tragic as the loss of Columbia is, I just have had a hard time coping with more than my own loss. Now I have more to think about when I spend time under the stars: my Mom will always be there with me. I, too look forward to observing with you again soon. You've always been a good friend. Thanks again. -----Original Message----- From: Brent Watson [mailto:brentjwatson@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, February 03, 2003 8:38 AM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mourning Kim, No words can express your sorrow at this point, and I sincerely grieve with you. I lost my mother about ten years ago, so I do know what you are going through. My sympathies go out to you. Somehow, a loss like this makes the rest of the world seem irrelevant, doesn't it? I look forward to spending many upcoming nights under the stars with you. Brent --- Kim Hyatt <khyatt(a)smithlayton.com> wrote: > With all of you I am mourning the loss of seven > souls who gave their lives > in an exciting but also dangerous endeavor. I feel > for their families and > pray for peace to their hearts. I also wanted to > share with my friends a > loss a bit more personal: My mother passed away > yesterday morning. Due to > her illness and my desire to remain close to her, I > did not join those of > you who drove (or flew) to the St. George area to > watch Columbia pass over > southern Utah. I hope y'all will continue to invite > me along for such > events. I attribute much of my interest in space and > astronomy to my Mom. > She was always "game" for such things - from taking > my brother and me to the > canyons to watch Sputnik pass overhead to purchasing > our first telescope, a > Gilbert "80 power" (WOW!) toy. Anyone would be very > lucky to have had or to > have a mother like mine. God bless her. > > Kim A. Hyatt, AIA > SL&A Architects > 331 South Rio Grande, Suite 304 > Salt Lake City, Utah 84101 > 801.322.5550 x122 > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Mourning
by RStmarie＠aol.com 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

Kim, My condolences on your loss. That's a pretty great mom who goes to watch satellites with her boys! Bob St. Marie

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] White flare
by David Dunn 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

Jim, In the picture that you are describing, it looks like the shuttle is still coming towards us. Would this mean that the long streak is going down the right side of the shuttle? The reason I ask is that I saw several of these visually with my binoculars and they all appears to be on the left side when it was coming towards me and on the right side when it was going away. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Jim Gibson [mailto:xajax99@yahoo.com] Sent: Sunday, February 02, 2003 3:17 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] White flare Patrick Would you mind adding the enlarged photo to your web so otheres can see what we are talking about? I have studied the photo for a while. Keeping in mind that my shutter was open for 8 seconds, that would correspond to the bright pink contrail. The gray contrail before that would have occured before the shutter was opened. I would intrupret the first jiggle in the pink contrail as my hand touching off photo. Then I see the the pink contrail stabalizing of a short time indicated by its straightness. Then I see a new bright pink line appear on the right side of the photo corresponding to the shuttles left side and immediately crossing over to the opposite side. The original contrail remains relatively stable while the new trail is pronounsly serpintine. That to me says that the camera was not jiggling because original contrail remains straight. I would ask for insight form all who wish to express it. I am most intrested in an accurate interpretation of the photo, and Patrick, yours my well be the correct one. What do otheres think. If it's nothing, its nothing. I had thought that the second pink line might be a blast form the course adjustment rocket, but on closer inspection I don't think we could see blue sky between the two contrails if it were and the shuttles course was not altered that I could tell. Jim Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)trilobyte.net> wrote: As with my answer to your other post, I invite others to correct me if necessary, but I'm pretty sure the multiple tracks and "flares" in your image were caused by the camera being moved while the shuttle was open. Patrick Jim Gibson wrote: > > Attached is the enlarged section of the flair-out. I think the first giggle > is me touching off the camera. The contrail Then stabilizes. Subsequently a > flair-out begins on the right side and moves immideatly to the left side of > the contrail. I read your post about the timing of the event that may coincide > with the heating of the tires. I can not discount the possibility of a jet > blast corresponding to a course correction. Of course, I am no expert in these > things.t _____ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up <http://rd.yahoo.com/mail/mailsig/*http://mailplus.yahoo.com> now

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(no subject)
by David Dunn 03 Feb '03

03 Feb '03

Here is what I just sent off to NASA. > I observed Columbia's re-entry from a location southeast of St. George, > UT. I have never observed a re-entry before. I observed the entire flight > over us with 10 X 50 binoculars. As it flew over, I saw at least 3 > occurances of what appeared to be objects coming off of the shuttle. The > objects that came off looked like meteors going in the opposite direction > as the shuttle. Two of the occurances we while the shuttle was to the west > of our location. The last one was bigger than the first two. It also > appeared to go farther away from the shuttle as if it had a little force > behind it. The all appeared to come from the right side of the shuttle > (left when coming towards us, right when going away). I thought that all > of this was normal as I thought that the shuttle loses tile on every > mission. The fire and trail around the shuttle were not constant. I > didn't notice any brightening but I did notice that it occationally got > bigger and smaller. The trail appeared orange. The area by the shuttle was > a purple, maybe magenta color. > > Our exact location, determined by a pilot friend of mine that was with us > was. > > N 37deg, 2 min. 21.00 sec. > W 113 deg, 30 min. 34.84 sec. > > He extracted this from a USGS 7.5 minute quadrangle of the area. > > I hope this helps with your investigation. > > Thanks. > David Dunn > 801-961-3253 - Work > 801-544-7705 - Home

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