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Drak Sky Site "Case Closed !"
by Nathaniel Goodman 24 Dec '04

24 Dec '04

The question was asked in this Forum was there support from SLAS membership for a Dark Sky Site. I should have replyed with just a simple yes there was instead of my rememberences of this Clouded in the Mists of Time. Anyway Case Closed. Lets move onto more relevent topics at hand like the correct spelling of Tooele not Toole as I spelled it the other night or AutoCross Racing like at Limerock ,Con.,Watkins Glen ,New York,or at the old Riverside Raceway in ,California. if thats the kind of Track Miller is planning then yes there will not be night races unless he wants to have a Le Mans 24 hr. style race which would require lights. I know however that any track built will as has been stated here has to have some type of security lighting for when it is closed, and for work areas, if the stories about Full Cutoff Fixtures at some of Miller's car Emporiums are true then that combined with the counties ordinances offer a ray of hope. I do feel though as several others have stated here that the larger problem at hand is too much growth and given the dominant church group here in Utah I doubt if there will ever be any way to push for ZPG (Zero Population Growth). Leaving religion out we must realize the the Tooele Grantsville area is now within the Wasatch Front Urban Commutter Bedroom Community Zone, the builders of Stansbury Terracore Corp. realized this ,but about a decade too soon. So SPOC II will definately be located under worse light polution even from correctly shielded fixtures sometime down the road. However as has been pointed out here already Water will be the biggest factor in the West and we ain't got enough of that to go around, but do we really want to return to the dark ages and live with no lights, power plants etc. I think not, you really can't go back in time so some wise compromises in the future will be necessary. Enough of my Blog-Like Rambelings.If it wasn't already way below zero even with some moon interference I would have considered going out and trying to find the Comet again. NATO.

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Re: Dark Site
by Chuck Hards 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

Daniel Turner wrote: > The best investment for dark skies is a tank of > gasoline and drive to the boonies. > > Just go do it. Dan, you miss the point. A secure dark site means that you can leave equipment there and not have to haul it back and forth every time. Perhaps even erect an observatory and only polar-align once; leave the mount set-up. Maximize one's time if imaging. It's not the local residents we worry about, its the idiots, drunks, target-shooters and vandals, and yes they are out there even in the farthest-flung boonies. Others have mentioned what they would want additionally: Power, toilet facilities, warming or bunk room, etc. Things you can't haul around with you unless you have too much money. I'm glad you have an observing style that suits you, but one size doesn't fit all. BUT- I am also now convinced that a club-sponsored site is not a good idea, and the reason is obvious, don't know why it didn't occur to me sooner! Doh! Anyone interested in a possible private co-op arraingement contact me off-list. If there are enough of us, lets get together after the holidays and research prices, locations, etc., and see where it leads. I don't want to keep knotting the shorts of SLASers so lets just take it off their radar. The Polaris club has been cited here before as a model, if time permits in coming weeks I'll dig out what I have on that association. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Dark Site
by astrodeb＠charter.net 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

I have a friend that bought an acre piece of land just past the Lava Point turnoff near the Kolob Terrece area of Zion National Park. What is nice about the site is that it is 8000-9000 ft in elevation, it is gated with a lock on the gate, and the property is above Kolob Reservoir road so car lights are not a problem. What is also nice about the site is besides being next to a national park, there is no electricity for the surrounding cabins. This means no annoying light pollution from nearby cabins. I bring my own portable Kendrick battery pack to power my fan or to power my mount. My friend has one concrete pad there and plans to put a few more pads in the future. It may be benificial in the future to haul a porta-pottie up there next spring. I can leave my telescope up there for a few days if I desire although I think I would keep an eye on it once in a while. The place is secure but you never know about animals, bugs, or birds. I think not having electricity up there is more of an advantage than a disadvantage. I'll take pictures when I get up there later in the spring. Debbie > > From: Chuck Hards <chuckhards(a)yahoo.com> > Date: 2004/12/23 Thu AM 10:55:09 MST > To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Re: Dark Site > > Daniel Turner wrote: > > > The best investment for dark skies is a tank of > > gasoline and drive to the boonies. > > > > Just go do it. > > Dan, you miss the point. A secure dark site means > that you can leave equipment there and not have to > haul it back and forth every time. Perhaps even erect > an observatory and only polar-align once; leave the > mount set-up. Maximize one's time if imaging. It's > not the local residents we worry about, its the > idiots, drunks, target-shooters and vandals, and yes > they are out there even in the farthest-flung > boonies. Others have mentioned what they would want > additionally: Power, toilet facilities, warming or > bunk room, etc. Things you can't haul around with you > unless you have too much money. I'm glad you have an > observing style that suits you, but one size doesn't > fit all. > > BUT- > > I am also now convinced that a club-sponsored site is > not a good idea, and the reason is obvious, don't know > why it didn't occur to me sooner! Doh! > > Anyone interested in a possible private co-op > arraingement contact me off-list. If there are > enough of us, lets get together after the holidays and > research prices, locations, etc., and see where it > leads. I don't want to keep knotting the shorts of > SLASers so lets just take it off their radar. The > Polaris club has been cited here before as a model, if > time permits in coming weeks I'll dig out what I have > on that association. > > > > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. > http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Re: racetrack
by Chuck Hards 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

I have a feeling Patrick only got lip service. There will be lights in the parking lot, at least, who are they kidding? Security lighting, garage areas, concessions...spotlights in the sky, (it's owned by a car dealership tycoon, remember?) there will be acres of lights even if the track itself isn't lit. More billboards, small businesses will sprout-up around it such as gas-stations, convenience stores, restaurants, etc. And what about the construction phase itself? Will this summer be washed-out because of all-night construction lights as they race to open the place on-time? It's a Pandoras box. Go ahead and put a good spin on it if you want; roll over and believe whatever the government tells you. I can't see anything good, astronomically, about either the Walmart facility or the racetrack. I'm not bringing all this up in an attack on SPOC - I've said repeatedly that SPOC has years, maybe decades of use ahead of it. Heck, I'm not even an active member and really don't care what the club does with its money. I pay my dues and folks with more time on their hands than I give some of it back to the community, terrific arrangement. What I AM saying is that the skies over the Tooele valley are much worse than they were 25 years ago, are getting worse still, and at a much faster pace as time goes by. Any other position is undefendable. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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Re: racetrack
by Chuck Hards 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

Agreed theres probably little anyone can do about it at this stage, but to just dismiss the whole thing, blindly trust the government and financial captains, and take a "not rock the boat" attitude is so typical of the population of this state. I don't live in Tooele or Stansbury, but if I moved there for the skies I'd certainly be anti-growth. Even full-cut-off lighting contributes to light pollution, albeit to a lesser extent than uplighting, that just means you get to install more lights before the same pollution level is reached. Power must be generated for even "correct" lighting and this will contribute to increased air pollution for someone somewhere. Light pollution aside, where are the water resources for more growth going to come from? I refuse to put good "spin" on a bad situation but since most of you think Im dead wrong or tilting at windmills, I'm done with it too. Merry Christmas, and God Bless Us, Everyone! __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250

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near miss asteroid: see Bowling Ball Drop
by James Helsby 23 Dec '04

23 Dec '04

Saw this story early this morning. Could have had a giant bowling ball experiment, without planning. http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/asteroid_close_041222.html Summary: 16-foot asteroid passes withing the 36,000 km geo-stationary satellite altitude. Wasn't seen approaching because of the sun blind spot. Cheers, James.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Wal Mart - race track lights update
by Michael Carnes 22 Dec '04

22 Dec '04

Thanks for checking on this Patrick. Of course the proof's in the pudding, but this is very encouraging. Speaking as a relative newcomer, I'm curious about Tooele having such strong lighting ordinances. What catalyzed them into being so forward-looking? ------ Wal Mart I drove past the new Wal Mart distribution center Friday night and saw that all of the parking lot/yard lights visible from the road employed full cut off shielding....

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Wal Mart - race track lights update
by Patrick Wiggins 22 Dec '04

22 Dec '04

Wal Mart I drove past the new Wal Mart distribution center Friday night and saw that all of the parking lot/yard lights visible from the road employed full cut off shielding. There was a lot of fog at the time and it was good to see the cones of light going down and not out. Race track I just spoke with the Tooele County engineering department (they are the ones that formulated and put teeth into the Tooele County light pollution ordinance). As soon as I said I was with the observatory she said she knew what I was calling about. She said there will be no night racing and no lights at the race track. BTW, it may be helpful to note that this is the same outfit and saw to it that the existing track had shielded lights. Other Note that this follows on the heels of all new billboards in Tooele county now have lights that shine down and highway lights are cobra style with full cut off shielding. Patrick

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Re: Dark-sky site
by Chuck Hards 22 Dec '04

22 Dec '04

I've heard several times that "most members won't use a dark-sky site". I wonder; the evidence seems to the contrary. Many SLAS members go to dark sites quite frequently so I have a hard time believing that a dark site would go unused. During warm weather this list is mostly a message board for the Wedge or Wolf Creek, or other remote sites all over the state. While I personally am not currently an active observer, my recent (last few years) attendance has actually been more at the remote locations than SPOC or other suburban star-parties. What folks want in a remote site are a few conveniences and a bit of security. The issue is whether enough clubbers want to commit club money to a remote property purchase or lease, and that is easily determined by a vote. I have to admit to ignorance on this. Has the entire membership ever been polled, or has it always been informal queries at meetings of the percentage who attended that night? If a subset of members got together and formed a co-op to purchase or lease a remote site outside of SLAS, would the membership at large feel offended or ostracized at not having access-on-demand of their own dark site? Would it lead to a duplication of efforts? Good visual astronomy requires a dark site; that is indisputable, so the issue simply must be re-examined from time-to-time by any urban-based club, as time goes by, members come-and-go, interests shift. Discussion should never be considered a waste of time or a reason to roll ones eyes. Back to my cave, thanks for your time. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Meet the all-new My Yahoo! - Try it today! http://my.yahoo.com

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Re: other Erata
by Chuck Hards 21 Dec '04

21 Dec '04

Nate, good to see you post! What is planned makes the current track look puny, and is really intended for a different style/scale of racing. This thing has been concieved as two full-sized tracks that can be linked into a "super track" for grand-prix style racing. It will be lit like south State Street in Murray, along "auto row", and about the same acreage; that is, square miles. I'm guessing there will also be endurance races lasting through the night. And as Guy pointed out, endless traffic. :( > From: "Nathaniel Goodman" <ngoodman(a)lgcy.com> > We already have one facility "Rocky Mountain > Raceway" do we really need another. That Track with > it's unshielded stadium lighting is still fully lit > at two or three in the morning when I drive past it > on my way home from SPOC Events, long after the > racing is over. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses. http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail

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