June 2009 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23
by Joe Bauman 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

Hi John, No, actually I was referring to my own photo that showed a lot of blue stars at the core of M22. I have been trying to figure why they look blue. It could be that I processed the color erroneously, or maybe the dawn that was breaking made the blue in the sky show up more -- I really don't know. Or maybe M22 just happens to have a lot of blue stars in it. I'm baffled, frankly, and I can't wait to get out when the cluster is higher, and the night is truly dark, and try it again. Best wishes, Joe --- On Thu, 6/11/09, John R. Peterson <docpity(a)earthlink.net> wrote: From: John R. Peterson <docpity(a)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 5:21 PM > >Joe, take a look at this: > >http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/globular_clusters.html > >On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com>wrote: > Joe, were you referencing the APOD globular that had a lot of blue stars (APOD 2004 Oct 14, "Glimpse of a Globular Star Cluster)? That's a false color infrared photo, so blue probably just refers to short wavelength IR. Chuck said it all: The more massive a star, the hotter (i.e., more blue) it burns and so the shorter its life. For this reason, globulars are almost entirely composed of lower mass, older stars, mainly because they don't have much in the way of star-forming dust and gas. And that's because they're outside of the disk of galaxies. It's in the disk, specifically in the spiral arms, where star formation occurs. John R. Peterson >> This makes me wonder if one of my basic assumptions is wrong. I thought all >> globulars were extremely ancient. But could a population of blue stars be as >> old as red ones? Can someone help me understand this? Thanks, Joe >> >> > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:38:23 -0600 >From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> >To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My new solar mount setup >Message-ID: > <2541d8030906111138n611656bv93a0e21b91f5f67b(a)mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Kurt , does your own PST display ghost images near the edge of the FOV? Did >you buy yours new, or used? > > > _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

2 1

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23
by JayLEads 12 Jun '09

12 Jun '09

Joe, Did some quick research last night since I couldn't observe . . . . argh . . . and then this a.m. It was quick and I have to go to work so I didn't get into it much but I found an interesting older article on M22 and blue variables. You can find it here http:// adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1978AJ.....83..946W If you look up to the blue box on the upper right you can get the free fulltext article. I'll read it this weekend. Not sure if it is related to your image or if your image is a result of light and the photography process but if nothing else on one night when it is raining this weekend it may provide an interesting read. Jay On 2009-06-12 04:26, Joe Bauman wrote: > Hi John, No, actually I was referring to my own photo that showed a lot of blue stars at the core of M22. I have been trying to figure why they look blue. It could be that I processed the color erroneously, or maybe the dawn that was breaking made the blue in the sky show up more -- I really don't know. Or maybe M22 just happens to have a lot of blue stars in it. I'm baffled, frankly, and I can't wait to get out when the cluster is higher, and the night is truly dark, and try it again. Best wishes, Joe > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, John R. Peterson <docpity@???> wrote: > > From: John R. Peterson <docpity@???> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23 > To: utah-astronomy@??? > Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 5:21 PM > > > > > >Joe, take a look at this: > > > >http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/globular_clusters.html > > > >On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman@??? >wrote: > > > Joe, were you referencing the APOD globular that had a lot of blue stars (APOD 2004 Oct 14, "Glimpse of a Globular Star Cluster)? That's a false color infrared photo, so blue probably just refers to short wavelength IR. Chuck said it all: The more massive a star, the hotter (i.e., more blue) it burns and so the shorter its life. For this reason, globulars are almost entirely composed of lower mass, older stars, mainly because they don't have much in the way of star-forming dust and gas. And that's because they're outside of the disk of galaxies. It's in the disk, specifically in the spiral arms, where star formation occurs. > John R. Peterson > > >> This makes me wonder if one of my basic assumptions is wrong. I thought all > >> globulars were extremely ancient. But could a population of blue stars be as > >> old as red ones? Can someone help me understand this? Thanks, Joe > >> > >> > > > > > >------------------------------ > > > >Message: 3 > >Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:38:23 -0600 > >From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards@???> > >To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy@???> > >Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My new solar mount setup > >Message-ID: > > <2541d8030906111138n611656bv93a0e21b91f5f67b@???> > >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > >Kurt , does your own PST display ghost images near the edge of the FOV? Did > >you buy yours new, or used? > > > > > > > > > > >

1 0

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 76, Issue 23
by John R. Peterson 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

> >Joe, take a look at this: > >http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/globular_clusters.html > >On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com>wrote: > Joe, were you referencing the APOD globular that had a lot of blue stars (APOD 2004 Oct 14, "Glimpse of a Globular Star Cluster)? That's a false color infrared photo, so blue probably just refers to short wavelength IR. Chuck said it all: The more massive a star, the hotter (i.e., more blue) it burns and so the shorter its life. For this reason, globulars are almost entirely composed of lower mass, older stars, mainly because they don't have much in the way of star-forming dust and gas. And that's because they're outside of the disk of galaxies. It's in the disk, specifically in the spiral arms, where star formation occurs. John R. Peterson >> This makes me wonder if one of my basic assumptions is wrong. I thought all >> globulars were extremely ancient. But could a population of blue stars be as >> old as red ones? Can someone help me understand this? Thanks, Joe >> >> > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:38:23 -0600 >From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> >To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] My new solar mount setup >Message-ID: > <2541d8030906111138n611656bv93a0e21b91f5f67b(a)mail.gmail.com> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Kurt , does your own PST display ghost images near the edge of the FOV? Did >you buy yours new, or used? > > >

1 0

Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2
by Joe Bauman 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

This makes me wonder if one of my basic assumptions is wrong. I thought all globulars were extremely ancient. But could a population of blue stars be as old as red ones? Can someone help me understand this? Thanks, Joe --- On Thu, 6/11/09, erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> wrote: From: erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net <erikhansen(a)TheBlueZone.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2 To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 10:32 AM >It seems it depends on type of stars make up the Globular. I searched briefly and found a Globular with OB associations are likely to be blue and are found in the disk of our galaxy which is the case of M22. Globular Clusters in the halo of our galaxy are likely to be red. I'm not sure. I've seen it in other photos of globular clusters, too. One > reason may be that in order to show anything other than a big glare, the > brightness had to be adjusted. Possibly the bright stars that remained > somehow influenced the color balance to make the dimmer ones look blue. If > someone else knows, I'd like to hear. Thanks, Joe > > --- On Thu, 6/11/09, M Wilson <astro_outwest(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > From: M Wilson <astro_outwest(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2 > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 8:49 AM > > Great writing and article, Joe. > > I have a question though. M22 and other globulars are supposed to be > populated with old aged red stars, but your photo, and many (but not > all) others I've seen on the Internet, indicates that the colors of those > stars to be blue. Is there an explanation for this? > > --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> wrote: > > > From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> > Subject: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2 > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 11:31 PM > > > Hi Friends, Here's the second, and for now, last, part of my M22 epic. > > http://www.deseretnews.com/blogs/1,5322,10000034,00.html?bD=20090610 > > Thanks, Joe > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

4 4

Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2
by daniel turner 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

A study of the H/R diagrams of various clusters will show a small sprinkle of stars blueward of the turnoff point. These "blue stragglers" are thought to be merged binary pairs. When one star reaches the giant phase, it expands enough to envelope its neighbor and the two coalesce into a single star that settles down to a larger and younger looking member of the cluster and thus will burn hotter and be bluer than the turnoff point. The very close binary pairs that are required for this are a product of the orbital mechanics that occur in these very dense clusters. When two close stars encounter a third star, one member is thrown off at high velocity and it takes away momentum that leaves the other two in a very close pair. Over time a lot of these interactions take place and a population of very close pairs builds up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_straggler DT

2 1

Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2
by Joe Bauman 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

Thanks, Chuck, it looks like our galaxy, at least, has strictly ancient globular clusters. Whew. Thanks to others who responded also. I tried to reprocess my picture and see if there was something wrong with my color balance, but I only got a predominantly green color. And I know that's not right. Best wishes, Joe --- On Thu, 6/11/09, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> wrote: From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2 To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 12:29 PM Joe, take a look at this: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/globular_clusters.html On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com>wrote: > This makes me wonder if one of my basic assumptions is wrong. I thought all > globulars were extremely ancient. But could a population of blue stars be as > old as red ones? Can someone help me understand this? Thanks, Joe > > _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

1 0

Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2
by Joe Bauman 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

I'm not sure. I've seen it in other photos of globular clusters, too. One reason may be that in order to show anything other than a big glare, the brightness had to be adjusted. Possibly the bright stars that remained somehow influenced the color balance to make the dimmer ones look blue. If someone else knows, I'd like to hear. Thanks, Joe --- On Thu, 6/11/09, M Wilson <astro_outwest(a)yahoo.com> wrote: From: M Wilson <astro_outwest(a)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2 To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 8:49 AM Great writing and article, Joe. I have a question though. M22 and other globulars are supposed to be populated with old aged red stars, but your photo, and many (but not all) others I've seen on the Internet, indicates that the colors of those stars to be blue. Is there an explanation for this? --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> wrote: From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2 To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 11:31 PM Hi Friends, Here's the second, and for now, last, part of my M22 epic. http://www.deseretnews.com/blogs/1,5322,10000034,00.html?bD=20090610 Thanks, Joe _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

3 2

Re: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2
by M Wilson 11 Jun '09

11 Jun '09

Great writing and article, Joe. I have a question though. M22 and other globulars are supposed to be populated with old aged red stars, but your photo, and many (but not all) others I've seen on the Internet, indicates that the colors of those stars to be blue. Is there an explanation for this? --- On Wed, 6/10/09, Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> wrote: From: Joe Bauman <josephmbauman(a)yahoo.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] M22, Part 2 To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, June 10, 2009, 11:31 PM Hi Friends, Here's the second, and for now, last, part of my M22 epic. http://www.deseretnews.com/blogs/1,5322,10000034,00.html?bD=20090610 Thanks, Joe _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

1 0

M22, Part 2
by Joe Bauman 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Hi Friends, Here's the second, and for now, last, part of my M22 epic. http://www.deseretnews.com/blogs/1,5322,10000034,00.html?bD=20090610 Thanks, Joe

1 0

Re: [Utah-astronomy] SMART-1 maps Kaguya lunar impact
by Canopus56 10 Jun '09

10 Jun '09

Breaking news images of the Kayuga impact. http://lpod.wikispaces.com/June+10%2C+2010+-+KAGUYA+SPECIAL No info on the scope or the exposure. The Kayuga orbiter reportedly weighed 2100kg - similar to what the LCROSS impactor will weigh and 10 times the mass of SMART-1. The Kayuga impact was at a shallow angle - like SMART-1 - that dissipates most of the energy in a manner that produces a relatively dimmer impact flash and vertically smaller plume. In contrast, the LCROSS impactor, by design, will crash at an angle (about 76degs) closer to vertical. That produces a brighter flash and a more vertical plume. - Kurt

1 0