May 2009 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Observatory Grand Opening
by Canopus56 23 May '09

23 May '09

Wayne wrote: > How about some good news: The Northrop-Grumman Foundation Observatory > at Northridge High School will have its grand opening on Thursday, May 28th > starting at 7:30 pm. After a FEW brief words and a ribbon cutting, > you'll be able to tour the facility, give me pointers on what I need to > change, advise me on how best to polar align the 12" Nishimura telescope, > talk me through CCD imaging procedures, and, when it gets dark > enough, skies permitting, look through the 16" Lightbridge telescope (as well as > Brent's 22-inch and any other assorted telescopes we all bring). . . . > I am especially in need of your suggestions on how to make this new facility well used. > I need your ideas on how to train other teachers, how to keep track of issued keys, > how to safeguard the telescopes, eyepieces, CCD camera, > computers, and any other accesories thereunto appertaining. Wayne, Did you get all the help you needed on setting up the observatory and getting its scope(s) aligned before the grand opening? Clear Skies - Kurt

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Astronomy Educational Resources
by Ann House 23 May '09

23 May '09

Good morning all, Wayne Sumner's posting about the Northrop-Grumman Foundation Observatory at Northridge High School opening festivities reminded me about some NASA resources I sent away for. I have 5 information and activity booklets, posters and CDs titled "What is Your Cosmic Connection to the Elements?" These are for grades 9-12. Additionally, I have 25 CD-ROMs that contain four astronomy education web sites; - Starchild - general astronomy for grades K-8 - Imagine the Universe! - for grades 7 and up - Astronomy Picture of the Day - pictures and explanations for all ages - Blueshift - a podcast that brings the Universe closer to you. I know there are several school teachers in this group, Wayne and John Petersen among others. Contact me and I will get these to you. And many of you teach your astronomy hobby at star parties and schools. If you would like these, let me know. I have 400 NASA International Year of Astronomy buttons and bookmarks that Daniel Filler will be taking to the Bryce Astronomical Festival. These resources are all from the NASA Night Sky Network. I will continue to take the opportunity to get these things as they become available and distribute them to you. -A (ann(a)annhouse.org)

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Mr. and Mrs. Bennett
by Kim 21 May '09

21 May '09

I just wanted to post here a hearty "Congratulations!" to Dave and Kea who were married on Saturday. Dave has been one of my best astronomy buddies and his bride is very fortunate to have married him. Well, of course they are both fortunate to have found each other, and I consider myself privileged to count Kea among my friends, as well. Best wishes to you both! Kim

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galactic center
by Canopus56 21 May '09

21 May '09

Richard wrote: > Are matching Hawaiian shirts also required? LOL. The Hawaii trip group has made a good start. http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1916 -:) Kurt

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galactic center
by Richard Tenney 21 May '09

21 May '09

Are matching Hawaiian shirts also required? LOL. --- On Thu, 5/21/09, Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> wrote: > From: Chuck Hards <chuck.hards(a)gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galactic center > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 10:52 AM > Good stuff, Kurt, as usual. And > thanks for the invitation...but I believe > it's traditional to celebrate the end of the world by > drinking Kool-Aid... > ;o) > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:33 PM, Canopus56 <canopus56(a)yahoo.com> > wrote: > > > > > P.S. - Personally, for 12/21/2012, I'm planning > an outdoor patio tikki > > Hawaiian slash barbecue to celebrate the end of the > universe - or at least a > > good ski season. Hawaiian shirts are mandatory dress. > You are all invited. > > -:) > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com >

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Fw: Citizen Sky Workshop on epsilon Aurigae
by Richard Tenney 21 May '09

21 May '09

FYI --- On Thu, 5/21/09, aavso(a)aavso.org <aavso(a)aavso.org> wrote: > From: aavso(a)aavso.org <aavso(a)aavso.org> > Subject: Citizen Sky Workshop on epsilon Aurigae > To: retenney(a)yahoo.com > Date: Thursday, May 21, 2009, 10:55 AM > > We would like to invite you (or anyone you would like to > forward this information on to) to apply for the first > Citizen Sky workshop on epsilon Aurigae. > > Citizen Sky is a new citizen science project spearheaded by > the American Association of Variable Star Observers > (AAVSO.) For the next 3 years the project will focus > on the very interesting, very bright variable star, epsilon > Aurigae. This eclipsing variable is not very well > understood. It has an eclipse every 27.1 years and is > due for one to begin this summer - just in time for the > second half of the International Year of Astronomy! We > will be holding a workshop on epsilon Aurigae and the > Citizen Sky project in early August at the Adler Planetarium > in Chicago. It is very likely that we will have travel > grants available for workshop participants. The first > round of participant selection will take place in early > June. > > For more information or to apply for the workshop, please > visit: www.citizensky.org > Please send any questions to: aavso(a)aavso.org > > We hope to see you at the workshop! > > ========================================= > A LITTLE MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THE AAVSO > AND THE CITIZEN SKY PROJECT... > ============================== > The American Association of Variable Star Observers > (AAVSO) > www.aavso.org > > The American Association of Variable Star Observers (AAVSO) > is a non-profit worldwide scientific and educational > organization of amateur and professional astronomers who are > interested in stars that change in brightness Ñ variable > stars. The AAVSOÕs mission is: to observe and analyze > variable stars; to collect and archive observations for > worldwide access; to forge strong collaborations between > amateur and professional astronomers; and to promote > scientific research and education using variable star > data. Please visit our website to learn more about > variable stars, the AAVSO, and how you can get involved. > > Read on to learn about the new citizen science project that > the AAVSO is spearheadingÉ > ============================= > The Citizen Sky Project > www.citizensky.org > > Who are citizen scientists? Volunteers, many of whom have > no prior scientific training, who work with trained > scientific researchers to answer real-world questions. > This means YOU! > > About the Citizen Sky Project on epsilon Aurigae: > Epsilon Aurigae (eps Aur) is a bright star located in the > constellation Aurigae, the charioteer. At 3rd magnitude the > star is bright enough to be seen with the unaided eye even > in the most light polluted cities. It is well placed for > observing in the fall, winter, and spring skies (in the > early summer it is hidden by the Sun's glare). > > Every 27.1 years the star goes into an eclipse that lasts > approximately one and a half years. Then, near the > very end of the eclipse, it suddenly gains most of its > brightness back in a matter of weeks. Even after over 175 > years of scrutiny, no one knows why this happens. The > next eclipse of eps Aur is predicted to begin in August > 2009. We need you to help us collect data so that we can > better understand this star. Because the star is very > bright, it can be observed by anyone regardless of > background, training, or equipment: with just good eyesight > and a finder chart, you can monitor this eclipse. > > The AAVSOÕs Citizen Sky project welcomes anyone who has an > interest in participating! We will guide you through the > process of how to observe eps Aur, how to send us your > observations of the star, how to see your results, analyze > them, and even publish them in a scientific journal!! No > previous experience is required. We hope that this will be > the largest citizen science project in modern history that > involves real, active research! > > - Website: Our new web page will be launching in June > 2009. This site will serve as the Òhome baseÓ for > anyone interested in participating in this project. > The new Citizen Sky website will include blogs, discussion > forums, a place to submit and analyze data, training > materials, plus much more, so come visit us in June! > In the meanwhile, visit www.citizensky.org for project > announcements and information. > > - Workshops: The first Citizen Sky Project Workshop will be > held Wednesday-Friday, August 5-7, 2009 at the Adler > Planetarium in Chicago. We will kick-off the 3-day workshop > with an opening reception the evening of August 4. The > ÒstarÓ of this workshop will be epsilon Aurigae. We are > assembling an impressive group of experts to lead sessions > on topics such as: an introduction to the Citizen Sky > Project, the science of epsilon Aurigae, observing epsilon > Aurigae (visual and photometric), public outreach using the > Citizen Sky Project, using the Citizen Sky Project in the > classroom, and an introduction to basic data analysis. We > are also planning a planetarium show and possible closing > star party. > > It is very likely that in the coming weeks we will have > travel grants available for workshop participants. Travel > grants/workshop slots are only available for those who > commit to spread the word about this project in their local > community. > > If you are interested in attending please complete the > application no later than June 1, 2009 for consideration in > the first round of participant selection. Individuals > applying by June 1 will be contacted with results by June > 5. > > Applications received after June 1, 2009 will be considered > to fill any remaining slots or added to a waitlist. Those > applying after June 1 will be contacted within 1 week of > application. > > There will be a second workshop focusing on data analysis > and scientific paper writing at the California Academy of > Sciences in San Francisco during the spring of 2010. > > - Observations/Analysis: Epsilon Aurigae is an ideal target > for those interested in learning how to observe variable > stars. By following the Ten Star Tutorial available on our > website, a new observer will be trained in the technique > needed to make and report a visual variable star > estimate. Information on taking digital observations > of epsilon Aurigae will be available on the Citizen Sky > website. The AAVSO is developing data analysis software, > which will come with tutorials to help train participants in > the basics of astronomical data analysis. A special edition > of the peer-reviewed Journal of the AAVSO will be dedicated > to papers written by project participants. > > - Education and Public Outreach: The brightness of the star > provides a rare opportunity to engage the general public in > citizen science. Participants are needed to help write > newsletter and newspaper articles, prepare talks and slide > shows, develop artwork, to give talks and participate in > other forms of community outreach. Teams of interested > participants with complementary skill sets are being > assembled right now (ex: teaming up a science writer with an > illustrator) and will continue to be assembled throughout > the project. > > Everyone can play a role in the Citizen Sky Project! > Get involved and discover yours.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galactic center
by Canopus56 21 May '09

21 May '09

Kim wrote: > Anyone know where the Nostradamus and > astrology nuts get this b___s__t? - Kim It's generically called "Doomsday 2012". Here's my March 7, 2008 post on this newsgroup on the Doomsday 2012 topic - filed somewhere between "Mars as big as the moon" and "Erich von Däniken - Ancient Astronauts" and "Planet X" - :) Clear Skies, Kurt P.S. - Personally, for 12/21/2012, I'm planning an outdoor patio tikki Hawaiian slash barbecue to celebrate the end of the universe - or at least a good ski season. Hawaiian shirts are mandatory dress. You are all invited. -:) ======== March 7, 2008 Post Here are my notes on this topic which may be of use to other club members responding to general public questions during summer star parties regarding the Doomsday 2012 new age theory. This month's _Catalyst_ magazine (March 2008 at 14-16) has an extensive article interviewing John Major Jenkins << http://www.alignment2012.com/ >>, a new age author, who has popularized that claim that the approaching 13th b'ak'tun of the Mayan calendar which ends near or on the winter solstice of Dec. 21, 2012, predicts the end of the current spiritual age and, prefaced by the calamities of death, famine and destruction, the coming of a new and better age. This new age myth smells like it will have some traction in the popular mind and that traction will increase through 2012. So anticipating getting hit with general public questions on this one during star parties (yes, I still get "Planet X" inquiries), I decided to start a myth busting folder on the Doomsday 2012 new age theory. The major warrants in the Doomsday 2012 argument are: 1) The Mayan's thought that the Earth was destroyed and recreated on the 13 b'ak'tun of the Mayan long count calendar. 2) There will be an unusual grouping of five planetary bodies on the morning of the winter solstice 2012. The following bodies will be within 32 degrees of each other: Saturn, Mercury, Venus, the Moon and the Sun. 3) The Sun, Earth and galactic center will be aligned for the first time in 26,000 years due to the Earth's precession. The Mayans knew and predicted this a couple of thousand of years ago. There are other miscellaneous supporting warrants supporting the Doomsday 2012 scenario that I have not looked into. For example, that there is an unusual number of inbound comets around that time. A rebuttal to each of the three major warrants listed above are: 1) The Mayan's thought that the Earth was destroyed and recreated on the 13 b'ak'tun of the Mayan long count calendar. The Mayan's counted in base 20. The Mayan ceremonial calendar uses a base 20 counting system structured around a long-count of 144,000 days per b'ak'tun. (Simiarly, much of our use of 360 degrees to measure angular size is a historical legacy of the Sumerian's use of a base 60 counting system.) Twenty b'ak'tun make one complete cycle of the Mayan long count calendar. Like the Chinese after the early 1900s, the Mayans used two calendars. The Mayans have the long-count calendar to record relative historical and astronomical dates. They also used a more practical solar calendar for civil administrative purposes. (The Chinese used a solar-lunar calendar through the early 1900s. Since then, the western Gregorian calendar is used for civil administrative purposes and the traditional solar-lunar calendar for ceremonial purposes.) The Dec. 12, 2012 date relates to the 13 b'ak'tun cycle, or 1,872,000 days (13 * 144,000 days per b'ak'tun) since Sept. 6, 3114 BCE (Julian). Checking the wikipedia entry, there appears to be no archeological consensus that the Mayan's intended the 13th b'ak'tun to be the end of a counting or creation cycle, as opposed to the more logical 20 b'ak'tun or 2,880,000 days after Sept. 6, 3114 BCE (Julian). The wikipedia entry goes on to quote Sandra Noble, executive director of the Foundation for the Advancement of Mesoamerican Studies, Inc. that interpreting Dec. 21, 2012, as a doomsday or moment of cosmic shifting is "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in." From an astronomical perspective, there seems to be no logical connection between precession spanning 26,000 years or 9,496,500 days (26,000 * 365.25) and the Mayan long count calendar. 9,496.500 days is not an exact multiple of 1 b'ak'tun. 9,496,500 / 144,000 days = 65.94 or approx. 66 b'ak'tun. The scientific achievement of the Mayan calendar is that they appear to have the only ancient calendar that approximates the concept of scientific or linear time embodied in the modern Julian calendar and universal time. Historical calendars make time variable in that it is reckoned from the variable solar or lunar year and not the passage of simple linear time. 2) There will be an unusual grouping of five planetary bodies on the morning of the winter solstice 2012. The following bodies will be within 32 degrees of each other: Saturn, Mercury, Venus, and the Moon. They will all be near the Sun. Saturn, Mercury and Venus will be within 24 degrees of each other. Adding the Moon means 4 bodies will be within 32 degrees of each other. Amateur John Rummel previously looked at the probability of three planets being grouped in the sky. He looked at the frequency of Jupiter, Venus and Mars groupings: http://webpages.charter.net/darksky25/Astronomy/Articles/April2000.html http://webpages.charter.net/darksky25/Astronomy/Articles/March2000.html The author did not state the conjunction tolerance used, but state that groupings for those three planets occur on average every 18 1/2 years. See also Brian Monson's page computing the frequencies of three planet conjunctions between Mars, Jupiter and Saturn within 10 degrees at once every 100 years. http://drumright.ossm.edu/astronomy/conjunctions.html The two above examples involve two or three superior planets. Groupings of inferior planets like Mercury and Venus with one superior planet would be more common, since the inferior planets have orbital periods substantially less than that of the Earth's. As Monson points out, in the 4.5 billion year history of the Earth, there have been 45,000,000 events where Mars, Jupiter and Saturn have been within 10 apparent degrees and we are still here, apparently suffering no ill effects from their repeated occurence. In the near past, similar wide-angle multi-planet groupings have occured, without notable ill effect, as documented in APOD (Astronomical Pictures of the Day) images on: Dec. 9, 2006 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap061209.html July 15, 2002 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050715.html May 10, 2002 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020510.html April 14, 2002 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020418.html May 9, 2000 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020509.html April 29, 2000 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap020429.html March 10, 2000 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap000310.html Dec. 4, 1997 - http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap971204.html 3) The Sun, Earth and galactic center will be aligned for the first time in 26,000 years due to the Earth's precession. The Mayans knew and predicted this a couple of thousand of years ago. With respect to the Sun-Milky Way alignment, the inclination of the ecliptic to the galactic equator is such that around the winter solstice, the Sun usually is near the galactic center. Granted the position of the Sun with respect to the galactic center and the winter solstice does change with precession over a 26,000 year period. 2,000 years agos the Mayans would have seen their winter solstice's many degrees from the current position near the galactic center. Mayan knowledge of precession - which in the west was identified by Ptolemy - around 100 C.E. - is less clear. For the last several hundred years, the Sun has been near the galactic center around the winter solstice without any special ill effects on that date. The converse is true. The winter solstice, in its modern Christainized form, is celebrated as a season of peace, goodwill and a time for cease-fires in regional conflicts. In otherwords, good things are expected to happen at that time of year, not bad things. Here's the position of the Sun, in galactic lat and longitude around Dec. 21 from 2008 through 2020, extracted from the JPL NASA Horizon's web applet. The Horizon's web applet doesn't allow you to put non-integer days. Because an interval of 365.25 days could not be used, there is some drift in the dates which is not signficant to the result: Date__(UT)__HR:MN GlxLon GlxLat ******************************************** 2008-Dec-21 00:00 6.054683 0.576538 2009-Dec-21 00:00 5.927047 0.800198 2010-Dec-21 00:00 5.796699 1.027998 2011-Dec-21 00:00 5.665830 1.256292 2012-Dec-20 00:00 5.539531 1.477225 2013-Dec-20 00:00 5.406701 1.708264 2014-Dec-20 00:00 5.276395 1.936201 2015-Dec-20 00:00 5.149486 2.157423 2016-Dec-19 00:00 5.017871 2.386990 2017-Dec-19 00:00 4.890353 2.609797 2018-Dec-19 00:00 4.759728 2.837003 2019-Dec-19 00:00 4.626869 3.068853 2020-Dec-18 00:00 4.498718 3.291268 From 2008-2020, there does not seem to be anything special about 2012 with respect to the annual cross of the Sun, in its progression in the ecliptic, as it crosses the galactic plane. Looking at Dec. 21, 2012, there doesn't seem to be anything particularly unusual about the Sun's position, as compared to its usual annual progression when crossing the galactic plane around the winter soltisce: Date__(UT)__HR:MN GlxLon GlxLat ******************************************** 2012-Dec-21 00:00 6.045898 0.593780 2012-Dec-21 01:00 6.066992 0.556968 2012-Dec-21 02:00 6.088086 0.520154 2012-Dec-21 03:00 6.109180 0.483341 2012-Dec-21 04:00 6.130273 0.446528 2012-Dec-21 05:00 6.151366 0.409714 2012-Dec-21 06:00 6.172459 0.372900 2012-Dec-21 07:00 6.193552 0.336086 2012-Dec-21 08:00 6.214645 0.299272 2012-Dec-21 09:00 6.235738 0.262458 2012-Dec-21 10:00 6.256831 0.225644 2012-Dec-21 11:00 6.277923 0.188830 2012-Dec-21 12:00 6.299016 0.152015 2012-Dec-21 13:00 6.320108 0.115200 2012-Dec-21 14:00 6.341201 0.078386 2012-Dec-21 15:00 6.362293 0.041571 2012-Dec-21 16:00 6.383386 0.004756 2012-Dec-21 17:00 6.404478 -0.032059 2012-Dec-21 18:00 6.425571 -0.068875 2012-Dec-21 19:00 6.446664 -0.105690 2012-Dec-21 20:00 6.467757 -0.142505 2012-Dec-21 21:00 6.488850 -0.179320 2012-Dec-21 22:00 6.509943 -0.216136 2012-Dec-21 23:00 6.531036 -0.252951 In short, that special ill effects may be seen on Dec. 21, 2012 as a result of a "special" alignment between the Sun, the Earth and the Milky Way galactic core seems unsupported by common experience. Such alignments currently occur around the winter solstice without any ill effects. In conclusion, there seems to be no association between the Mayan calendar and Earth's precession. There is no association between the "end" of the Mayan calendar in the 20th b'ak'tun and any alignment between the Earth, Sun the galactic core. Such alignments have occurred routinely for the last 100 years without ill effect. A 24 degree conjunction between two inferior planets and one superior planet is not extraordinary and there seems to be little reason to suppose, based on past experience with such events, that anything bad will happen when it occurs again in the future. The Mayans should be respected for their creation of the first true linear time calendar. The root warrant that the Mayans attached the significance to a 13th b'ak'tun as the end of a creation cycle marked by earthly destruction has been questioned by a Mayan archeological expert. I hope these notes are useful to club members, who will undoubtedly be fielding questions from the general public about the March 2008 _Catalyst_ article during summer star parties. The Doomsday 2012 new age theory provides another opportunity for amateur astronomers to teach teenagers (and older adults) basic critical thinking and scientific reasoning skills that are the foundation of our hobby. - Kurt

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Atlantis and Hubble
by erikhansen＠TheBlueZone.net 21 May '09

21 May '09

Atlantis and Hubble Sun Transit http://legault.club.fr/atlantis_hst_transit.html

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Tropical Telescopic Tour
by Rodger C. Fry 21 May '09

21 May '09

Yesterday we made our visit to the observatories at the summit of Mt. Haleakela. What a view and an amaizing experience. First the group toured the US Airforce telescopes including the largest at about 9 meters with adaptive optics. This was incredeble. We then toured some of the other telescopes (there are about 13 on the summit) including the Faulkes and the solar telescope. JD Armstrong from the University of Hawaii (a Utah native) and Rob Rokawski gave us the tours. When we arrived at the summit, the wind was howling at about 40+ MPH. It started to ease up a bit by sunset and it was quite cold (39 degrees plus the wind chill). At dusk, the mountain came alive with all of the domes opening including the Faulkes. We were going to have a viewing session on the Faulkes but the internet connection went down and is required to run the scope. The group had a nice meal while the skies got dark and then we viewed many objects through a 10 inch SCT and binoculars. I was pleased to see Omega Centauri (on a scale of 1-10 it is 10 with Hercules Globular at about 4). We also looked at the Eta Carinae nebula and other things around the Southern Cross. We will go back one of the next two nights to try again on the Faulkes scope Here are links to some of the photos taken: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1916 http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1912 http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=1919 Thank You, Rodger C. Fry Consulting Geologist

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Galactic center
by M Wilson 21 May '09

21 May '09

There's an interestiang fictionalized account of the Mayans, 2012 and the end of the world found "Domain" in by Steve Alten. Check out this Amazon page that has a brief synopsis of the novel: http://www.amazon.com/Domain-Trilogy-Steve-Alten/dp/0765324660/ref=sr_1_7?i… My only problem with the book was the sexual content found in some of the passages. Other than that, it was a real page turner. --- On Wed, 5/20/09, Kim <kimharch(a)cut.net> wrote: From: Kim <kimharch(a)cut.net> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Galactic center To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Date: Wednesday, May 20, 2009, 10:22 AM Warning! I make no bones about deriding alchemy, astrology and other pseudo sciences, so if you're into that stuff, some of the following might offend you. Yes, Ann and Troy - we can see the galactic center from here in the constellation Sagittarius, or rather we can look towards it. The center proper is obscured from Earth by intervening dust, but there have been great images made of the vicinity in infrared. I have to share a bit of "history" that I saw on the History channel last night. The program was about Nostradamus and the so-called doomsday prophecies regarding December 12, 2012. The program claimed that on 12.21.12 the sun would become perfectly aligned with the galactic center as seen from Earth, and somehow this was predicted by Nostradamus and the Mayan calendar, among other sources. The program further claimed that this phenomenon was due to the precession of the equinoxes. They also explored possible scenarios that would wipe out the world on that date, including volcanoes and "galactic waves" that could destroy all life. I suppose that if the sun does suddenly move into Sagittarius it really could be the end of the world as we know it. Anyone know where the Nostradamus and astrology nuts get this b___s__t? Kim _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.slas.us/gallery2/main.php Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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