September 2008 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by zaurak＠digis.net 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

I do not believe there is a problem, you can Star Gaze where and when you want. As an Astronomy Club it is bad when we advertise an event and no one or only a few show up. Willingness to participate is a factor, fortunately we have enough to support a robust schedule. We have had angry public when an event is scheduled and no one shows up. Rodger Fry has done an outstanding job with Special Star Parties and has accommodated most request. I hope next years board has someone as enthusiastic. Willingness to participate does seem to becoming a problem. We used to have a lot of people running for the SLAS Board with several people running for every office. Now we struggle to get one per office. SLAS members have a long history of National Park Star Parties., I see no reason why this can't continue. I even ran into John Dobson near Capital Reef in his RV asking for directions. Yes ladies, men do ask for directions. All I am saying is that SLAS has to be careful about having support for an event before scheduling. Members input is welcome, when deciding the schedule. I remember one year when I did 1-2 per week, most went well, but some I was the only person and I would end up with lines of 500 people. We would look at one thing for 3 hours, it was not enjoyable for anyone. Erik --- outwest112(a)yahoo.com wrote: From: daniel turner <outwest112(a)yahoo.com> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 20:45:25 -0700 (PDT) I keep hearing this concept of "too many starpartys" and I just don't believe in it. Our only real limit is the weather, not people's willingness to participate. If you schedule a party and the weather is good, club members with telescopes will come, but it the weather is bad, no one will come. Rob just demonstrated that even a marginal weather night can be salvaged with just one telescope. When the public shows up and has questions, small informal discussions break out about.....astronomy regardless of the weather. How is that not good. Unfortunately people are in the mood to cancel other peoples favorite venues in the name of conserving some scarce resource. If you don't want to attend a particular party, you are always free to stay home and watch TV. There is no need to limit the options of others. Even when SLAS doesn't schedule a party, if the weather is good people go out viewing and when they meet the public they share the view. I really don't see the problem here. DT --- On Wed, 9/3/08, zaurak(a)digis.net <zaurak(a)digis.net> wrote: > From: zaurak(a)digis.net <zaurak(a)digis.net> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night > To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Date: Wednesday, September 3, 2008, 3:36 PM > Perhaps this would be something we could do with other > Astronomy Clubs in Arizona and Colorado. There has been a > bit of discussion that SLAS does too many Star Parties for > the club to support. The SLAS board needs to carefully > consider scheduling and does take members suggestions, it is > hard to accommodate everyone. The Star Party at the South > Rim is the primary public event for those Astronomy Clubs. > Nationwide few do monthly Star Parties. Certainly anyone > working with park service does not have to include SLAS, > meaning it does not have to be a SLAS event for club members > to support. Problems arise when we try to schedule multiple > National Park venues. New Moon has usually been reserved for > SLAS member events, Bryce has become a exception although it > does allow members time without the public for serious > observing. Support of the rangers is important and with a > few exceptions SLAS has a good relationship with them. I > suspect as gas prices continue to rise, Star Parties that > are 300 miles away will be less popular. How many campsites > does Natural Bridges have? As I recall it is under 30. > > We have helped support the North Rim Star Party but not > for many years. Seems Bryce has taken its place as far as > club support. They have a good place for speakers, but the > location for the Star Party is poor. A lot of trees and it > was held at the patio of the visitors center, many lights > remained on for safety. You also could not utilize your > vehicle for power. They hold the South Rim Party at Desert > View which is a lot better, I thought that was organized by > one of the Phoenix clubs and supported by many Orange County > Astronomical Society members, I am sure they would welcome > SLAS members. I think they hold it about the same time we do > Bryce though. > > --- robtaylor3661(a)comcast.net wrote: > > From: "Robert Taylor" > <robtaylor3661(a)comcast.net> > To: <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday > Night > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 15:13:38 -0600 > > Natural Bridges is remote and not a large park and does not > get tons of > visitors, it does not have the potential of a Bryce, Canyon > Lands or Capital > Reef to attract visitors but unlike some Parks the Ranger > staff was very > accommodating and happy to have us there, that's > important to me. From our > experience with Bryce I think we know very well that having > the support of > the Ranger staff makes all the difference, Bryce being an > example of > tremendous support as such the Bryce Star Party has become > a terrific event. > For that reason the trip to Natural Bridges was worth it > and the event > worthwhile. The facilities could probably support up to > about 20 scopes > although 6 - 12 or so would be more realistic because of > limited > accommodations in the park for both astronomers and > visitors. That's > probably the right number for this park. > > > > There was quite a bit of talk about the Grand Canyon Star > party and the > rangers from AZ were interested to see that grow and get > some fresh blood as > well, I think they were impressed with small but > knowledgeable and > enthusiastic SLAS contingent. There are other > opportunities in AZ as well, > we agreed we would discuss it further. > > > > > > > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:21:54 -0700 > > From: <zaurak(a)digis.net> > > Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday > Night > > To: "Utah Astronomy" > <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> > > Message-ID: > <20080903112154.2569B564(a)resin11.mta.everyone.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > The small size of Natural Bridges seems the problem with > holding public > events there. If we got the turn out of Bryce there would > be no room for > visitors. As I recall, the nearest hotel is a good > distance, Blanding, as > Robert mentioned. It is dark but can only accommodate small > groups, and long > distance for a weekend trip. The Rangers at Island in the > Sky seemed peeved > when SLAS took over the campground there.Did anyone mention > the Grand Canyon > Star Party to the Northern Arizona people. Not the one on > the North Rim but > the South Rim, they get a pretty good turn out there. > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

2 1

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by Robert Taylor 04 Sep '08

04 Sep '08

I have to agree with Dan. We had three Star Parties going on last week-end and as far I can see they were well supported and lot of people had fun and got away for the week-end or at least out for a night or two. I fail to see the argument for limiting start parties, the "too many star parties" argument never made sense to me, I have never understood it. If you don't want to go, if it's too far to drive, if gas is too expensive or you have other obligations by all means stay home. No one is under obligation to support anything. That's the wonderful thing, with 200 or so members. I think SLAS is big enough to support and participate in many events - simultaneously. We have done it many times this season and in the past and as far as I know with great success and positive exposure. I for one vote that SLAS keep a robust star party schedule including new locations throughout the area. I will attend as I can as will others, others will prefer to do other things or stay home and watch TV. That's the beauty of large club; we don't need everyone to attend every event. If you attend just a few you've done your part to support club star parties. I encourage all SLAS members to support as many star parties as they can, they are always fun and it's a great opportunity to share your passion of the hobby with the public and others that are more interested then what you can imagine. The wonderful thing about Saturday night (1 scope, 1 SLAS member) was that all the people that came stayed for over an hour, most left only after the sky socked in. They all showed a genuine interest; we all learned each others names and had a lot of fun. They all said they wanted to learn more about the stars and astronomy, talked about the telescopes they looked through or owned now or in the past and their experiences with high school and college astronomy courses. The kids were very enthusiastic and always jumping back on line to see the next site. They all thanked the park service, SLAS and myself for the time and effort. It was a lot better than re-runs of Desperate Housewives. Some more specifics on the Natural Bridges: There are other campsites just outside the park and in the immediate area. Their group site could hold up to 20 tents and a few campers alone, more than what we need but not more then what the park can support, there are no issues there. The issue will be for those that want to "Hotel it", Blanding is a good drive away, not unreasonably long but not right outside the park. The other important issue is that visitors will be limited due to the remoteness of the park. This is not an event for 100 scopes, the distance would preclude 100 people from going there as well so by definition participation should self-regulate as it did this time. But for those that want a new experience at a site farther south with great skies, very pleasant weather (warm nights!) and a welcoming staff in a very interesting area it's a great event. Let's do more of this type of stuff, not less.

2 1

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by zaurak＠digis.net 03 Sep '08

03 Sep '08

Perhaps this would be something we could do with other Astronomy Clubs in Arizona and Colorado. There has been a bit of discussion that SLAS does too many Star Parties for the club to support. The SLAS board needs to carefully consider scheduling and does take members suggestions, it is hard to accommodate everyone. The Star Party at the South Rim is the primary public event for those Astronomy Clubs. Nationwide few do monthly Star Parties. Certainly anyone working with park service does not have to include SLAS, meaning it does not have to be a SLAS event for club members to support. Problems arise when we try to schedule multiple National Park venues. New Moon has usually been reserved for SLAS member events, Bryce has become a exception although it does allow members time without the public for serious observing. Support of the rangers is important and with a few exceptions SLAS has a good relationship with them. I suspect as gas prices continue to rise, Star Parties that are 300 miles away will be less popular. How many campsites does Natural Bridges have? As I recall it is under 30. We have helped support the North Rim Star Party but not for many years. Seems Bryce has taken its place as far as club support. They have a good place for speakers, but the location for the Star Party is poor. A lot of trees and it was held at the patio of the visitors center, many lights remained on for safety. You also could not utilize your vehicle for power. They hold the South Rim Party at Desert View which is a lot better, I thought that was organized by one of the Phoenix clubs and supported by many Orange County Astronomical Society members, I am sure they would welcome SLAS members. I think they hold it about the same time we do Bryce though. --- robtaylor3661(a)comcast.net wrote: From: "Robert Taylor" <robtaylor3661(a)comcast.net> To: <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 15:13:38 -0600 Natural Bridges is remote and not a large park and does not get tons of visitors, it does not have the potential of a Bryce, Canyon Lands or Capital Reef to attract visitors but unlike some Parks the Ranger staff was very accommodating and happy to have us there, that's important to me. From our experience with Bryce I think we know very well that having the support of the Ranger staff makes all the difference, Bryce being an example of tremendous support as such the Bryce Star Party has become a terrific event. For that reason the trip to Natural Bridges was worth it and the event worthwhile. The facilities could probably support up to about 20 scopes although 6 - 12 or so would be more realistic because of limited accommodations in the park for both astronomers and visitors. That's probably the right number for this park. There was quite a bit of talk about the Grand Canyon Star party and the rangers from AZ were interested to see that grow and get some fresh blood as well, I think they were impressed with small but knowledgeable and enthusiastic SLAS contingent. There are other opportunities in AZ as well, we agreed we would discuss it further. Message: 2 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:21:54 -0700 From: <zaurak(a)digis.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <20080903112154.2569B564(a)resin11.mta.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The small size of Natural Bridges seems the problem with holding public events there. If we got the turn out of Bryce there would be no room for visitors. As I recall, the nearest hotel is a good distance, Blanding, as Robert mentioned. It is dark but can only accommodate small groups, and long distance for a weekend trip. The Rangers at Island in the Sky seemed peeved when SLAS took over the campground there.Did anyone mention the Grand Canyon Star Party to the Northern Arizona people. Not the one on the North Rim but the South Rim, they get a pretty good turn out there. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

2 1

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by Robert Taylor 03 Sep '08

03 Sep '08

Natural Bridges is remote and not a large park and does not get tons of visitors, it does not have the potential of a Bryce, Canyon Lands or Capital Reef to attract visitors but unlike some Parks the Ranger staff was very accommodating and happy to have us there, that's important to me. From our experience with Bryce I think we know very well that having the support of the Ranger staff makes all the difference, Bryce being an example of tremendous support as such the Bryce Star Party has become a terrific event. For that reason the trip to Natural Bridges was worth it and the event worthwhile. The facilities could probably support up to about 20 scopes although 6 - 12 or so would be more realistic because of limited accommodations in the park for both astronomers and visitors. That's probably the right number for this park. There was quite a bit of talk about the Grand Canyon Star party and the rangers from AZ were interested to see that grow and get some fresh blood as well, I think they were impressed with small but knowledgeable and enthusiastic SLAS contingent. There are other opportunities in AZ as well, we agreed we would discuss it further. Message: 2 Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 11:21:54 -0700 From: <zaurak(a)digis.net> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night To: "Utah Astronomy" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Message-ID: <20080903112154.2569B564(a)resin11.mta.everyone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The small size of Natural Bridges seems the problem with holding public events there. If we got the turn out of Bryce there would be no room for visitors. As I recall, the nearest hotel is a good distance, Blanding, as Robert mentioned. It is dark but can only accommodate small groups, and long distance for a weekend trip. The Rangers at Island in the Sky seemed peeved when SLAS took over the campground there.Did anyone mention the Grand Canyon Star Party to the Northern Arizona people. Not the one on the North Rim but the South Rim, they get a pretty good turn out there.

1 0

Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by Robert Taylor 03 Sep '08

03 Sep '08

To add to Roger's summary at Natural Bridges last week-end: Around 7:00 pm on Saturday I joined the Rangers in their housing area for a BBQ in the park housing area and had a chance to talk to many of them. I was the sole representative of SLAS and found the Rangers very interested in Astronomy and answered a lot of their questions as best I could. They would love to have us back. The head Ranger (Scott Ryan) wants a SLAS hat. We talked about the Dark Sky designation, astronomy and telescopes in general for a while before I headed over to check out the star Party area. As expected we had a group of people who did not get the message that the Saturday Night Star Party had been cancelled. I went over to visitor center parking lot where the star party was sceduled to find a family sitting there waiting for the scopes. Not wanting to disappoint I set up my scope as the clouds were showing signs of thinning. The clouds soon opened up enough to give us a good view of the sky, first it was just Jupiter, and then it opened up in the Cygnus area, soon more and more opened up. We had about a 75% open sky from about 8:30pm to 10:15pm. Seeing the clearing skies other families came over from the camp site and joined our small but intimate group. Before long we had a good crowd, 15-20. We had a lot of fun and a handful of Rangers from Natural Bridges including a few that came up from Arizona joined the park visitors. They all asked lots of questions and had lots of requests and kept me quite busy, especially a couple of very enthusiastic young ladies who were fascinated with the sky. Even after clouds starting filling in all the gaps several of the rangers stayed for a while and continued to ask questions about SLAS doing star parties in Arizona and astronomy in general. They said they would love for SLAS to come down and visit them in Northern AZ. We had one couple drive out from Blanding just for the star party but unfortunately by the time they arrived even sucker holes were few and far between. I stayed and talked to them till about 11pm when they headed back and I packed up. Unfortunately no other SLAS members joined in on Saturday having all made their decisions early in the evening and made other plans. While the skies were open the seeing was fairly steady on Saturday and we had some excellent views. The skies at Natural bridges are very good. There are no bright spots on the horizon anywhere. While I was there I never saw an inky black sky, possible due to the lower altitude (5,300') and the front that was on the horizon but the viewing was very good. I went down on Thursday and had Thursday night to myself and had a wonderful night viewing and photographing. Thursday night's sky was not very steady but the transparency was excellent, not so great for photos but it settled down after midnight and I got some keepers. I stayed out till a little after 3am when the long drive finally caught up with me. Friday was a very good night for the star party with 6 scopes and a handful of SLAS members we stayed busy with the small but very interactive crowd. Quite fun and enjoyable. The park is smaller and more remote than either Bryce or Capital Reef, it's a National Monument as opposed to a park but it is part of the park service. The whole area is fascinating if you've never been down there. About a 325 mile drive from SLC so it's a trip. The nearest town is Blanding which is about 35-40 minutes away to the east. There are no services near the park so gas up and bring what you need, don't count on getting it there. This is something we should consider again for next year.

2 1

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night
by zaurak＠digis.net 03 Sep '08

03 Sep '08

The small size of Natural Bridges seems the problem with holding public events there. If we got the turn out of Bryce there would be no room for visitors. As I recall, the nearest hotel is a good distance, Blanding, as Robert mentioned. It is dark but can only accommodate small groups, and long distance for a weekend trip. The Rangers at Island in the Sky seemed peeved when SLAS took over the campground there.Did anyone mention the Grand Canyon Star Party to the Northern Arizona people. Not the one on the North Rim but the South Rim, they get a pretty good turn out there. --- robtaylor3661(a)comcast.net wrote: From: "Robert Taylor" <robtaylor3661(a)comcast.net> To: <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: [Utah-astronomy] Natural Bridges Saturday Night Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 09:39:27 -0600 To add to Roger's summary at Natural Bridges last week-end: Around 7:00 pm on Saturday I joined the Rangers in their housing area for a BBQ in the park housing area and had a chance to talk to many of them. I was the sole representative of SLAS and found the Rangers very interested in Astronomy and answered a lot of their questions as best I could. They would love to have us back. The head Ranger (Scott Ryan) wants a SLAS hat. We talked about the Dark Sky designation, astronomy and telescopes in general for a while before I headed over to check out the star Party area. As expected we had a group of people who did not get the message that the Saturday Night Star Party had been cancelled. I went over to visitor center parking lot where the star party was sceduled to find a family sitting there waiting for the scopes. Not wanting to disappoint I set up my scope as the clouds were showing signs of thinning. The clouds soon opened up enough to give us a good view of the sky, first it was just Jupiter, and then it opened up in the Cygnus area, soon more and more opened up. We had about a 75% open sky from about 8:30pm to 10:15pm. Seeing the clearing skies other families came over from the camp site and joined our small but intimate group. Before long we had a good crowd, 15-20. We had a lot of fun and a handful of Rangers from Natural Bridges including a few that came up from Arizona joined the park visitors. They all asked lots of questions and had lots of requests and kept me quite busy, especially a couple of very enthusiastic young ladies who were fascinated with the sky. Even after clouds starting filling in all the gaps several of the rangers stayed for a while and continued to ask questions about SLAS doing star parties in Arizona and astronomy in general. They said they would love for SLAS to come down and visit them in Northern AZ. We had one couple drive out from Blanding just for the star party but unfortunately by the time they arrived even sucker holes were few and far between. I stayed and talked to them till about 11pm when they headed back and I packed up. Unfortunately no other SLAS members joined in on Saturday having all made their decisions early in the evening and made other plans. While the skies were open the seeing was fairly steady on Saturday and we had some excellent views. The skies at Natural bridges are very good. There are no bright spots on the horizon anywhere. While I was there I never saw an inky black sky, possible due to the lower altitude (5,300') and the front that was on the horizon but the viewing was very good. I went down on Thursday and had Thursday night to myself and had a wonderful night viewing and photographing. Thursday night's sky was not very steady but the transparency was excellent, not so great for photos but it settled down after midnight and I got some keepers. I stayed out till a little after 3am when the long drive finally caught up with me. Friday was a very good night for the star party with 6 scopes and a handful of SLAS members we stayed busy with the small but very interactive crowd. Quite fun and enjoyable. The park is smaller and more remote than either Bryce or Capital Reef, it's a National Monument as opposed to a park but it is part of the park service. The whole area is fascinating if you've never been down there. About a 325 mile drive from SLC so it's a trip. The nearest town is Blanding which is about 35-40 minutes away to the east. There are no services near the park so gas up and bring what you need, don't count on getting it there. This is something we should consider again for next year. _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

1 0

Report on Private Star Party at Capitol Reef
by Ann House 02 Sep '08

02 Sep '08

Once again, SLASers headed for Capitol Reef over the Labor Day weekend. This year it was dubbed a private event, as the rangers at Natural Bridges invited us for a Park-sponsored star party. Several club members supported the Park, camped, and checked out what Natural Bridges had to offer. I look forward to a report from that group. Lowell & family members, Don & Linda, Steve & Cheryl, Ann & Craig, Ivo, Nate, Bill, Dave Bernson, and I met Friday night for dinner at the Capitol Reef Inn. We then went to Panorama Point to set up our scopes high above the highway and with good horizons. We had a good time visiting, listening to Dave talking about the constellations, and looking at the sky. Viewing wasn't the best Capitol Reef has to offer. The air seemed thick with dust or smoke. Clouds rolled in about 2-3 am and a storm was threatening us for most of Saturday. By Saturday night, the clouds obstructed viewing, though Don gave it a try. Saturday was spent hiking and/or touring. Nate, Bill, Dave and I toured the Cathedral Valley in Nate's new car. We had an adventure and Nate's car has a few battle scars. Dave says it needed it as what is the point of an all-wheel drive if you keep the car pristine. Nate may have something to say about that, but I think all in all, he is just glad we are not stuck in a desert gully miles from civilization. Thanks, Lowell, for pulling this together! -A

2 1

Laser test
by Patrick Wiggins 01 Sep '08

01 Sep '08

Chuck asked me to post this. patrick I'm off the astro list currently; I just don't have time to spend on- line these days unfortunately. Hopefully life will settle-down when winter arrives and I can spend more time on this box. Be that as it may, I thought you two might possibly be interested in this and pass it on to the astro list if Bob hasn't already: Sunday morning my friend Bob Grant (retired engineer and also a periodic SLAS member) hiked to the top of Mt. Olympus, the south peak. While there, he called me on his cell phone (about 11:00 am) and I stepped into my front yard which has line-of-sight to the top of Olympus. Hand-holding my 100mW laser, I tried to hit the peak while he remained on the phone. To our amazement, he and his hiking partner clearly saw the green flash when the beam swept over them. We repeated the test for about ten minutes, I had to let the diode cool- down between duty cycles. Each time they clearly saw the green laser, in bright sunlight! The line-of-sight distance is about 10 miles from my house to the peak. I have not calculated spot size due to beam divergence at that distance, but would estimate that it is easily a meter or two, at least. I am thoroughly convinced that the ISS and/or shuttle crew could easily see one or more green laser pointers aimed at them from the ground. If Patrick could use his ambassador status to enquire about the possibility of such an activity, I would love to take part.

1 0