November 2008 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

Re: [Utah-astronomy] Utah-Astronomy Digest, Vol 69, Issue 9
by Robert Taylor 11 Nov '08

11 Nov '08

Amen to that. Robert Taylor Message: 3 Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2008 11:00:18 -0700 From: diveboss(a)xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush Admin To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Message-ID: <20081111110018.3u46eohbco8wg4kw(a)webmail.xmission.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes"; format="flowed" The looney left has spoken. ;) Next! > Hi Diveboss... > You mention the federal government is supposed to defend and > protect it's citizens. You go on to say that the federal government is > not responsible to rebuild low lying coastal cities. So... helping > citizens of the United States of America who's lives have been > destroyed by a natural calamity is not the responsibilty of the > federal government? Your thinking is the typical right wing thinking > and it is extremely hypocritical. For, if it were your home that was > destroyed, you would be screaming for some kind of federal help. > You mention the "framers"... I suppose you mean the true American > patriots who designed and wrote the Constitution. I believe these same > "framers" would roll over in their graves if they knew what the Bush > admin has done to our most precious docmument. Please do not bring up > the Constitution to validate your point, while at the same time you > conveniently forget the crimes against the Constitution that your > favorite president has committed. In the real world, you cannot pick > and choose which parts of the Constitution you are willing to protect. > And neither can the war veterans pick and choose which freedoms they > will fight to preserve. > And the EPA is not essential? Why they only protect us from > industrial poisons, and oversee significant bills such as the clean > air and clean water acts. And let us not forget... and all right > wingers seem to not want to mention this... but the greatest attack on > American soil occurred during a republican presidential watch. And > don't tell me it was Clinton's fault. When Clinton launched missles at > Al Queida bases in Afghanistan in the 90's, the republicans claimed > Clinton was attempting to divert attention from the Monica Lewinsky > scandal. So, in reality, if the republicans were not hounding Clinton > for spurious reasons while in office, maybe Clinton could have done > more about Al Queida. As it were, he was fighting for his political > life and he turned over a lot of intelligence to the Bushies and > recommended they make going after Al Queida a priority. But Bush sat > on the intelligence and allowed 911 to happen. Those are the facts. > And please do not tell me that private enterprise will lead the > way in saving our civilization. Where are they? In your closet? Under > your bed? Sure... they have brought us all kinds of "cool" electronic > gadgets and conveniences in our lives. But where are they when it > comes to global warming, energy efficiency, energy independence and > actually providing well paying jobs for our citizens? Again... if we > solve the major problems staring us in the face, it will be government > intitiatives and mandates that will accomplish this. Private interests > are only concerned with their stock holders and profits, not the well > being of our citizens. > Now, I won't take up anymore of this blog space by debating > political issues. I just had to say something, because we live in > Utah. And Utahn's cannot grasp the fact the republicans got their > asses kicked in the last election. The American people are tired of > Reaganomics and abuses of our Constitution. For thirty years we have > seen unfettered excess by our corporate overlords. The American people > have spoken! No more right wing policies! Thanks again for your time. > > Jon

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush Admin
by stormcrow60＠xmission.com 11 Nov '08

11 Nov '08

Diveboss Wrote: Is that you Rocky? You need to brush up on your history just a little bit. Particularly that part that defines the role of government. I don't remember NASA, NOAA or the EPA being things the federal government was to be responsible for. I don't believe rebuilding low lying coastal cities that were damaged by hurricanes as a role of the federal government. The role of the government is to defend and protect it's citizens from harm. The role of the government is to stay out of the way of it's citizens as they freely persue their own forms of happiness, provided it does not violate the rights of others to do the same. All the other crap you mentioned is simply the talking points of the far left. IF all George Bush did in his 8 years was to keep this country and it's people safe, then he did exactly what the framers had intended. And in less than 15 minutes, you can thank a veteran for giving you the right to say what you want. And I will thank them for giving me the right to respond. Happy Veterans day to the rest of you who served! Hi Diveboss... You mention the federal government is supposed to defend and protect it's citizens. You go on to say that the federal government is not responsible to rebuild low lying coastal cities. So... helping citizens of the United States of America who's lives have been destroyed by a natural calamity is not the responsibilty of the federal government? Your thinking is the typical right wing thinking and it is extremely hypocritical. For, if it were your home that was destroyed, you would be screaming for some kind of federal help. You mention the "framers"... I suppose you mean the true American patriots who designed and wrote the Constitution. I believe these same "framers" would roll over in their graves if they knew what the Bush admin has done to our most precious docmument. Please do not bring up the Constitution to validate your point, while at the same time you conveniently forget the crimes against the Constitution that your favorite president has committed. In the real world, you cannot pick and choose which parts of the Constitution you are willing to protect. And neither can the war veterans pick and choose which freedoms they will fight to preserve. And the EPA is not essential? Why they only protect us from industrial poisons, and oversee significant bills such as the clean air and clean water acts. And let us not forget... and all right wingers seem to not want to mention this... but the greatest attack on American soil occurred during a republican presidential watch. And don't tell me it was Clinton's fault. When Clinton launched missles at Al Queida bases in Afghanistan in the 90's, the republicans claimed Clinton was attempting to divert attention from the Monica Lewinsky scandal. So, in reality, if the republicans were not hounding Clinton for spurious reasons while in office, maybe Clinton could have done more about Al Queida. As it were, he was fighting for his political life and he turned over a lot of intelligence to the Bushies and recommended they make going after Al Queida a priority. But Bush sat on the intelligence and allowed 911 to happen. Those are the facts. And please do not tell me that private enterprise will lead the way in saving our civilization. Where are they? In your closet? Under your bed? Sure... they have brought us all kinds of "cool" electronic gadgets and conveniences in our lives. But where are they when it comes to global warming, energy efficiency, energy independence and actually providing well paying jobs for our citizens? Again... if we solve the major problems staring us in the face, it will be government intitiatives and mandates that will accomplish this. Private interests are only concerned with their stock holders and profits, not the well being of our citizens. Now, I won't take up anymore of this blog space by debating political issues. I just had to say something, because we live in Utah. And Utahn's cannot grasp the fact the republicans got their asses kicked in the last election. The American people are tired of Reaganomics and abuses of our Constitution. For thirty years we have seen unfettered excess by our corporate overlords. The American people have spoken! No more right wing policies! Thanks again for your time. Jon p.s. No, this is not Rocky, but I will say hello to him if I see him.

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush Administration
by Gary Vardon 11 Nov '08

11 Nov '08

The free enterprise system provides the technology that NASA uses for space exploration. Another point is that the government could fund space exploration much more extensively if welfare were not so costly. In other words so much is spent on transfer payments that the government does not have much money to fund space research. Sincerely, Gary Vardon -----Original Message----- From: diveboss(a)xmission.com Sent: Monday, November 10, 2008 11:50 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush Administration Is that you Rocky? ;) You need to brush up on your history just a little bit. Particularly that part that defines the role of government. I don't remember NASA, NOAA or the EPA being things the federal government was to be responsible for. I don't believe rebuilding low lying coastal cities that were damaged by hurricanes as a role of the federal government. The role of the government is to defend and protect it's citizens from harm. The role of the government is to stay out of the way of it's citizens as they freely persue their own forms of happiness, provided it does not violate the rights of others to do the same. All the other crap you mentioned is simply the talking points of the far left. IF all George Bush did in his 8 years was to keep this country and it's people safe, then he did exactly what the framers had intended. And in less than 15 minutes, you can thank a veteran for giving you the right to say what you want. And I will thank them for giving me the right to respond. Happy Veterans day to the rest of you who served! Quoting stormcrow60(a)xmission.com: > Without the "government" you would not have NASA. Without the > "government" you would not have NOAA. Without the "government", you > would not have the EPA or any other federal entity that worked fairly > efficiently and prudently before the Bush administation hired their > "anti-science" hacks to head said government entities. The plan of the > Bush administration all along was to gut these federal entities to > show the American people how ineffectual the federal government is. > Look at FEMA and Hurricane Katrina for a perfect example of this type > of right wing ideology. The worn out right wing argument of telling > the "government to get out of the way" is not only wrong, but foolish. > Another perfect example is the almost $1,000,000,000,000.000 of U.S. > tax payers money that has been transferred from public hands into > private hands. Now the same greedy, right wing, venture capitalists > who have run our economy into the ground based upon their diatribe of > deregulating the markets, and telling the "government to get out of > the way" are now running to the seek the shelter of that same > "government" to bail them out of the economic mess they have created. > Its funny, that right wingers called Obama a socialist when he > introduced his tax plan. But those same right wing ideologues did not > complain when they went "hat in hand" to beg for a government bail > out. This is occuring again and again. Look at GM and Chrysler and > Ford. These companies are just a small example of the massive bailout > hoax that is being perpetrated upon the American people. The free > enterprsiers are a joke. They want to live their ideology so bad, yet > they will unabashedly make like the corporate welfare queens they > truly are and run to the federal government for help. Socialists > indeed! True free enterprise is dead and has been dead for decades. > And as far as the planetary probes that another person had mentioned, > these probes would not have been funded if left to the vestiges of the > Bush administration. Thanks for your time. > > Jon _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Bush Administration
by stormcrow60＠xmission.com 10 Nov '08

10 Nov '08

Dale Hooper Wrote: So, you don't suppose that a grenade such as, "As everyone knows, Bush's administration has been an absolute failure in this regard". Could possibly be taken *the wrong way* by anyone? Over the next four years scientific advancements will ALSO be credited to individuals, universities and private industry. I don't see Obama heading to the lab any time soon. The best thing government can do is get out of the way. Clear skies. Dale, Without the "government" you would not have NASA. Without the "government" you would not have NOAA. Without the "government", you would not have the EPA or any other federal entity that worked fairly efficiently and prudently before the Bush administation hired their "anti-science" hacks to head said government entities. The plan of the Bush administration all along was to gut these federal entities to show the American people how ineffectual the federal government is. Look at FEMA and Hurricane Katrina for a perfect example of this type of right wing ideology. The worn out right wing argument of telling the "government to get out of the way" is not only wrong, but foolish. Another perfect example is the almost $1,000,000,000,000.000 of U.S. tax payers money that has been transferred from public hands into private hands. Now the same greedy, right wing, venture capitalists who have run our economy into the ground based upon their diatribe of deregulating the markets, and telling the "government to get out of the way" are now running to the seek the shelter of that same "government" to bail them out of the economic mess they have created. Its funny, that right wingers called Obama a socialist when he introduced his tax plan. But those same right wing ideologues did not complain when they went "hat in hand" to beg for a government bail out. This is occuring again and again. Look at GM and Chrysler and Ford. These companies are just a small example of the massive bailout hoax that is being perpetrated upon the American people. The free enterprsiers are a joke. They want to live their ideology so bad, yet they will unabashedly make like the corporate welfare queens they truly are and run to the federal government for help. Socialists indeed! True free enterprise is dead and has been dead for decades. And as far as the planetary probes that another person had mentioned, these probes would not have been funded if left to the vestiges of the Bush administration. Thanks for your time. Jon

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Journey to Palomar broadcast KUED 11-20 at 11pm
by Canopus56 10 Nov '08

10 Nov '08

Patrick wrote: > Thanks for posting this Kurt. It's just too bad (IMHO) that KUED is waiting so > long to broadcast it (nationally it airs tonight) and KBYU > does not have it on its schedule at all. Looking forward to the 20th, > patrick Your'r welcome. Gotta get my astronomy video fix for the month. -:) Along the video fix lines, Moore's _The Sky at Night_ has been internet broadcasted for a number of years. In September of this year, the BBC started blocking access to the program from America. To see the program in America, now you have to go and buy a $9.00 copy of the _Sky at Night_ magazine which has a CD-R with the program glued on the front. Ouch! IMHO _The Sky at Night_ mag is pretty bad compared to S&T or even Astronomy. Talk about product tieing. To get the good stuff - Moore's program - you have to shell out extra for the bad magazine. Oh well. I'll have a disk to give away at next month's SLAS meeting. - Kurt

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Journey to Palomar broadcast KUED 11-20 at 11pm
by Canopus56 10 Nov '08

10 Nov '08

Mark your calendars - Kurt KUED Thursday 11-20 11:00pm http://www.kued.org/?area=programs&action=viewSeriesDetails&id=18814 Journey to Palomar site http://www.pbs.org/thejourneytopalomar/

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Science Challenges for the Next Administration
by zaurak＠digis.net 10 Nov '08

10 Nov '08

Yes, research is done by individuals, government has been in the way (lets not confuse rhetoric and reality) in the last 8 years on many fronts. More can be done to facilitate research in the way of funding, perhaps less on mating habits of animals in Alaska however. Private industry cannot provide all the needed funding, the oil industry probably is the exception of that. Much research has little immediate potential for creating profit desired by capitalists. --- Dale.Hooper(a)sdl.usu.edu wrote: From: Dale Hooper <Dale.Hooper(a)sdl.usu.edu> To: Utah Astronomy <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Science Challenges for the Next Administration Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2008 10:43:46 -0700 So, you don't suppose that a grenade such as, "As everyone knows, Bush's administration has been an absolute failure in this regard". Could possibly be taken *the wrong way* by anyone? Over the next four years scientific advancements will ALSO be credited to individuals, universities and private industry. I don't see Obama heading to the lab any time soon. The best thing government can do is get out of the way. Clear skies. -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Kim Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 5:44 PM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Science Challenges for the Next Administration Well, I have always thought of myself as a realist, but maybe I've been wrong all this time. ;-) I know of no news analyst, politician, news organization, science institution or otherwise that gives the Bush credit for any advances in the sciences during his tenure in the White House. The fact that advances have been made during the past eight years is credit to individuals, universities and private industry and not to the Bush administration. And, for what it's worth, I don't consider improved abilities to kill people scientific advancement. As Dave pointed out, I'm still a male. I just have one of those names... Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tyler Allred Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2008 11:43 AM To: 'Utah Astronomy' Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Science Challenges for the Next Administration Personally, I think she is the realist. Bush has been a disaster. IMHO I can't think of anything he has managed well. You cannot give him credit for the scientific advances that have occurred despite his incompetence. Tyler No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1777 - Release Date: 11/9/2008 9:53 AM _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Science Challenges for the Next Administration
by Patrick Wiggins 10 Nov '08

10 Nov '08

Podcast from today's broadcast of Science Friday: Science Challenges for the Next Administration (broadcast Friday, November 7th, 2008) In this segment, we'll talk about the key science-related issues facing the Obama administration, from energy policy to health care. And how will any of these issues fare when stacked up against the economy, financial recovery efforts, and the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200811077 patrick

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Science Challenges for the Next Administration
by zaurak＠digis.net 10 Nov '08

10 Nov '08

Hi Kim, Evidence based Health Care is the future and research is critical. I must take issue with Guys statement about stem cells. The non-embryonic lines are not as useful as the embryonic. This science would progress faster using them. These embryos are destined for destruction. Why not utilize them? I have always been dumbfounded why there is not outrage over the fact that thousands of embryos are destroyed every year as the result of in-vitro fertilization. Is this not also destroying life? Research for alternate fuels has been stunted in favor of oil and gas. Who has hoped science would fail? Erik --- kimharch(a)cut.net wrote: From: "Kim" <kimharch(a)cut.net> To: "'Utah Astronomy'" <utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Science Challenges for the Next Administration Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2008 08:46:53 -0700 Are not energy issues and health care scientific in nature? Scientists can, do and will offer possible scenarios for alternative energy technologies and medical breakthroughs, among, of course, other scientific issues. It's up to politicians to form national policy based on what science and technology can offer. As everyone knows, Bush's administration has been an absolute failure in this regard. Kim -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of diveboss(a)xmission.com Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 9:07 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Science Challenges for the Next Administration Just what does ones energy policy and health care have to do with science challenges? I think this person will have enough on his plate for the next few years. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.549 / Virus Database: 270.9.0/1777 - Release Date: 11/9/2008 9:53 AM _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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Re: [Utah-astronomy] Science Challenges for the Next Administration
by Gary Vardon 09 Nov '08

09 Nov '08

I see the successful planetary probes as examples of scientific progress made by America under President Bush. I would like to see more and better space missions but a lot of sophisticated work has been done in the last few years. Sincerely, Gary Vardon -----Original Message----- From: diveboss(a)xmission.com Sent: Friday, November 7, 2008 9:07 PM To: utah-astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Utah-astronomy] Science Challenges for the Next Administration Just what does ones energy policy and health care have to do with science challenges? I think this person will have enough on his plate for the next few years. Quoting Patrick Wiggins <paw(a)wirelessbeehive.com>: > Podcast from today's broadcast of Science Friday: > > Science Challenges for the Next Administration (broadcast Friday, > November 7th, 2008) > > In this segment, we'll talk about the key science-related issues > facing the Obama administration, from energy policy to health care. > And how will any of these issues fare when stacked up against the > economy, financial recovery efforts, and the wars in Iraq and > Afghanistan? > > http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/200811077 > > patrick > > _______________________________________________ > Utah-Astronomy mailing list > Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy > Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com > Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com > _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://gallery.utahastronomy.com Visit the Wiki: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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