December 2006 - Utah-Astronomy - mailman.xmission.com

RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - RecentGushingWaterandNewCraters
by Michael Carnes 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

I've read a number of articles that speculate that there was an "RNA world" even before DNA. In these articles, the first self-replicating lifeforms (or pre-lifeforms) were based purely on the messenger characteristics of RNA. This short-lived world was soon superseded by DNA. The only remaining RNA organisms are generally pathogens. I don't have a clue whether this supports single or multiple origins for DNA, but it's kind of interesting. >>From what I have read, it seems clear that certain >"features" or traits have evolved in DNA multiple >times/instances in the history of life here, which may >indicate that the evolutionary paths may not be >infinite.

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - RecentGushingWaterandNewCraters
by Seth Jarvis 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

Supposing that a Martian sample return mission is successful, and we find simple microbes with DNA that is analogous to terrestrial DNA, the questions do indeed become profound. Does this mean that DNA is "standard issue" for all life, or does it hint that Earth and Mars were both seeded (how? when?) by the same source (what?) If a putative Martian microbe does _not_ have recognizable DNA yet is nonetheless self-replicating, then things really get interesting. Life establishes itself in multiple ways, not just through DNA. The sky's the limit. Moreover, the new measure of the rareness of life shows that life occurs anywhere it can get a toehold. If it's on multiple places in just our own solar system, then how reasonable is it to believe that it isn't everywhere else? Some religious folks will shrug and say, "Cool! God's use of DNA clearly works better than the moldy micro-life you get without His intervention." Others religious folks will have a fit, but there's absolutely nothing we can do about it; it's the same fit they've thrown since the dawn of reason. Seth -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+sjarvis=slco.org(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+sjarvis=slco.org@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:55 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - RecentGushingWaterandNewCraters I understand- it's the educator in you and you probably can't help yourself! No offense taken. Now, keep your educator's hat on, go ahead and speculate a bit... Assuming life on Mars is found, and further assume that it is clearly related to terrestrial DNA- what do you see as being the fallout in society? --- Seth Jarvis <SJarvis(a)slco.org> wrote: > No condescension was intended, ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Do you Yahoo!? Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. http://new.mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - RecentGushingWaterandNewCraters
by sjseebergp＠webtv.net 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

You are most kind! After years and years of being a telescope widow, I now have my own training scope. It offers a GoTo that really has a mind of its own. Awesome stuff to learn on my own, not just warm a folding chair and serve food. LOL Jan

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - RecentGushingWaterandNewCraters
by sjseebergp＠webtv.net 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

You are very welcome! Jan

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - RecentGushingWaterandNewCraters
by Michael Carnes 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

>Please forgive an oldie from jumping in! You're forgiven as long as you keep jumping in. Thanks for a perspective that's actually reality-based. >My husband and I very much enjoy receiving your emails and wish we were >closer in order to join you folks for a star party. Come on down and join us at Bryce Canyon or Capitol Reef this next summer. Plenty of room for another couple of sets of eyes.

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - RecentGushingWaterandNewCraters
by sjseebergp＠webtv.net 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

Dear All Please forgive an oldie from jumping in! I recall two things from the original Mars Viking Lander. [1] there was an Astrobiologist at JPL who had the formidable task of testing the after landing viability on Mars of various microbes, viruses, etc. Because we did not wish to contaminate Mars, and we did not want to have one [or more] slide off the lander only to be scooped up and tested onboard with the result of our declaring Mars had a similar life form to earth`s,,heavens it could be ours. One of the most puzzling onboard results at that time were some of the soil content results. Though no exotic minerals were found, the Martian samples tested differently [ or with varying results] than from similar minerals on Earth. I do not know if the Why was ever found. My husband and I very much enjoy receiving your emails and wish we were closer in order to join you folks for a star party. Congratulations especially, for your outreach, your wonderful senses of humor, and your tolerance of folks chiming in on a topic from my years in the aerospace industry, and my husbands at Griffity Observatory. Jan & Stan Seeberg Vancouver [Washington] Sidewalk Astronomers.org

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - RecentGushingWaterandNewCraters
by Michael Carnes 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

>If a putative Martian microbe does _not_ have recognizable DNA yet is >nonetheless self-replicating, then things really get interesting. Life >establishes itself in multiple ways, not just through DNA. The sky's the >limit. That really is the interesting question, isn't it? We'd have never really predicted what DNA can do--we're still just getting a handle on it. We've had to study and observe it. So what other chemistry might have similar capacity? Who knows? >Others religious folks will have a fit, but there's absolutely nothing we >can do about it; it's the same fit they've thrown since the dawn of reason. Now you've done it Seth ;-) There might be a couple of other people who jump into this one now...

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - RecentGushingWaterandNewCraters
by Michael Carnes 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

I'm a lot less worried about Martian life infecting Earth than I am the other way 'round. Lifeforms on Earth have been duking it out for a couple of billion years--both against the environment and against each other. I don't have many fears of an Andromeda Strain problem here. We've certainly got plenty of evidence that simple lifeforms remain viable in space for a number of years. We should assume that there are already earth-originated bacteria on Mars. Whether they're doing anything or not is another question entirely. I don't know how NASA came to the view that they wouldn't decontaminate Mars-bound craft. Perhaps we jumped to the no-life-there assumption a bit too quickly. That really doesn't square with the fact that we dove Magellan into Jupiter rather than risk the potential contamination of Europa. However, I don't think there can be any argument that humans on Mars would bring a lot more in the way of contamination than robots. Of course, I'm squarely in the robot camp anyway--what do you expect me to say?

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - Recent GushingWaterandNewCraters
by Seth Jarvis 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

No condescension was intended, and if that's how it was perceived then I apologize to anyone who were offended by the way I worded my last post. My intent was to encourage people to learn about a seldom-used word and begin appreciating the deep, and newly relevant implications of the theoretical processes for which the word serves as a label. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/panspermia Seth -----Original Message----- From: utah-astronomy-bounces+sjarvis=slco.org(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:utah-astronomy-bounces+sjarvis=slco.org@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Hards Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 11:40 AM To: Utah Astronomy Subject: RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - Recent GushingWaterandNewCraters That 'look it up' remark was just a bit condescending, Seth- we've had the discussion on the list before. The "Martian Meteorite" spurred it most recently several years ago, IIRC. I personally would find it pretty neat if it turned out that we and the Martians share a common heritage. And I can't wait to see how the ID debate morphs if it turns out that we DO share genetic material with an extra-terrestrial life form. --- Seth Jarvis <SJarvis(a)slco.org> wrote: > There's a word that you're going to hear a lot more > about now that Mars just > became a whole lot more habitable. > > Panspermia. > > Look it up and start the discussion! ____________________________________________________________________________ ________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited _______________________________________________ Utah-Astronomy mailing list Utah-Astronomy(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/utah-astronomy Visit the Photo Gallery: http://www.utahastronomy.com

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RE: [Utah-astronomy] (From NASA) Mars - Recent Gushing WaterandNewCraters
by Seth Jarvis 07 Dec '06

07 Dec '06

There's a word that you're going to hear a lot more about now that Mars just became a whole lot more habitable. Panspermia. Look it up and start the discussion! Seth

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