(usr-tc) What platform are others moving to?
After doing the dance with 3com over upgrading my systems to gain some additional level of stability I have come to the following conclusions. 3com wants $4640 a year for software updates only, or about $10000 for 8-5 service(?) with software updates. They also want another $4400 to purchase new v.90 keys to support my quad modems on the new hipernmc's. We talked a bit about replacing all of the quads but that would run $18,000. Pretty soon we are starting to talk about real money! The problem I have with this is why the hell does the hipernmc require a v90 key for the quad modems? Is 3com going to milk that cow until the udder bleeds? Isn't the fact that we bought the upgrade enough? We are getting real close to a break even for replacing the entire pile of trash with a new Cisco when I figure in the rebates (assuming Cisco still considers the 3com a competitive unit). Mark Thornton San Marcos Internet, Inc. 512-393-5300 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
The problem I have with this is why the hell does the hipernmc require a v90 key for the quad modems? Is 3com going to milk that cow until the udder bleeds? Isn't the fact that we bought the upgrade enough?
I thought it was supposed to be sufficient. My understanding was that if you bought a V90 key, and at a later stage had to replace the NMC, they would issue a new V90 key free of charge. Maybe that only applies if they've previously conned you into a waste-of-money maintenance contract? - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
hahahahaha people are still complaining about 3COM's policies. Geez, it's a new century, get away from their silly crap. There are better options out their.... start to explore them. Once the expired leases start to flood the market then they might be a better deal. But not know. Paul Farber Farber Technology farber@admin.f-tech.net Ph 570-628-5303 Fax 570-628-5545 On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Bob Purdon wrote:
The problem I have with this is why the hell does the hipernmc require a v90 key for the quad modems? Is 3com going to milk that cow until the udder bleeds? Isn't the fact that we bought the upgrade enough?
I thought it was supposed to be sufficient. My understanding was that if you bought a V90 key, and at a later stage had to replace the NMC, they would issue a new V90 key free of charge.
Maybe that only applies if they've previously conned you into a waste-of-money maintenance contract?
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Ask LaChina @ 3com - I bet she will hook you up as you are not asking for a new key, just transferring the license key to another 3com product (HiperNMC) and discontinuing use of the old key (NMC). Try it ... if your old NMC broke and you got a replacement they would be required to give you a new key ... under warranty for sure - and probably out of warranty as well as the old key (paid for separately) did not break with the nmc! If that does not work I would ask to speak to a 3com attorney. BTW: We have done this in the past with broken NMCs but not using the HiperNMC issue. Marshall Morgan President Internet Doorway, Inc (aka NETDOOR) http://www.netdoor.com 601.969.1434 x28 | 800.952.1570 x28 | 601.969.3629 x28 | Fax 601.969.3838 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Purdon" <lists@aussie.nu> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 7:17 PM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) What platform are others moving to?
The problem I have with this is why the hell does the hipernmc require a v90 key for the quad modems? Is 3com going to milk that cow until the udder bleeds? Isn't the fact that we bought the upgrade enough?
I thought it was supposed to be sufficient. My understanding was that if you bought a V90 key, and at a later stage had to replace the NMC, they would issue a new V90 key free of charge.
Maybe that only applies if they've previously conned you into a waste-of-money maintenance contract?
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While LaChina is very nice, I would bet this goes against policy. Unlike a return/rma/repair, you end up with TWO X2/v.90-enabled NMCs for the price of ONE. I have a feeling this would not slip by the alert folks at 3Com that count the beans... Charles On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Marshall Morgan wrote:
Ask LaChina @ 3com - I bet she will hook you up as you are not asking for a new key, just transferring the license key to another 3com product (HiperNMC) and discontinuing use of the old key (NMC).
Try it ... if your old NMC broke and you got a replacement they would be required to give you a new key ... under warranty for sure - and probably out of warranty as well as the old key (paid for separately) did not break with the nmc!
If that does not work I would ask to speak to a 3com attorney.
BTW: We have done this in the past with broken NMCs but not using the HiperNMC issue.
Marshall Morgan President
Internet Doorway, Inc (aka NETDOOR) http://www.netdoor.com
601.969.1434 x28 | 800.952.1570 x28 | 601.969.3629 x28 | Fax 601.969.3838 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Purdon" <lists@aussie.nu> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 7:17 PM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) What platform are others moving to?
The problem I have with this is why the hell does the hipernmc require a v90 key for the quad modems? Is 3com going to milk that cow until the udder bleeds? Isn't the fact that we bought the upgrade enough?
I thought it was supposed to be sufficient. My understanding was that if you bought a V90 key, and at a later stage had to replace the NMC, they would issue a new V90 key free of charge.
Maybe that only applies if they've previously conned you into a waste-of-money maintenance contract?
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
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Which totally disregards the fact that the ability to handle X2/V.90 is in the modem code. If you have the modem code, it means you had paid for the software upgrades to get them. So buying the key unlocks an ability you've already paid for. It's ridiculous that 3Com is still forcing people to buy the keys for any reason. v.90 should be standard equipment these days. Wayne Barber Coastal Telco Services On 22 Sep 00, at 14:07, Charles Sprickman wrote:
While LaChina is very nice, I would bet this goes against policy. Unlike a return/rma/repair, you end up with TWO X2/v.90-enabled NMCs for the price of ONE. I have a feeling this would not slip by the alert folks at 3Com that count the beans...
Charles
On Fri, 22 Sep 2000, Marshall Morgan wrote:
Ask LaChina @ 3com - I bet she will hook you up as you are not asking for a new key, just transferring the license key to another 3com product (HiperNMC) and discontinuing use of the old key (NMC).
Try it ... if your old NMC broke and you got a replacement they would be required to give you a new key ... under warranty for sure - and probably out of warranty as well as the old key (paid for separately) did not break with the nmc!
If that does not work I would ask to speak to a 3com attorney.
BTW: We have done this in the past with broken NMCs but not using the HiperNMC issue.
Marshall Morgan President
Internet Doorway, Inc (aka NETDOOR) http://www.netdoor.com
601.969.1434 x28 | 800.952.1570 x28 | 601.969.3629 x28 | Fax 601.969.3838 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Purdon" <lists@aussie.nu> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 7:17 PM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) What platform are others moving to?
The problem I have with this is why the hell does the hipernmc require a v90 key for the quad modems? Is 3com going to milk that cow until the udder bleeds? Isn't the fact that we bought the upgrade enough?
I thought it was supposed to be sufficient. My understanding was that if you bought a V90 key, and at a later stage had to replace the NMC, they would issue a new V90 key free of charge.
Maybe that only applies if they've previously conned you into a waste-of-money maintenance contract?
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
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On Wed, 20 Sep 2000, Mark Thornton wrote:
After doing the dance with 3com over upgrading my systems to gain some additional level of stability I have come to the following conclusions. 3com wants $4640 a year for software updates only, or about $10000 for 8-5 service(?) with software updates. They also want another $4400 to purchase
Hmm, for how much gear is that for? Probably not alot. You have to understand the 3com business model..........its about making money on support. Its a very important part of their business that you pay them to fix the bugs they sold you. Sure, they have code that fixes your problem............but wait.......it has PPPoE in it, and thats a "feature" (probably with bugs), and so they can't just let you *have* it, you have to pay them. Now they could seperate the code trains, and release just "fixes" with no new features (3com doesn't know what a feature freeze is).........but then how they going to justify charging you ungodly amounts for support?
new v.90 keys to support my quad modems on the new hipernmc's. We talked a bit about replacing all of the quads but that would run $18,000. Pretty soon we are starting to talk about real money!
The problem I have with this is why the hell does the hipernmc require a v90 key for the quad modems? Is 3com going to milk that cow until the udder bleeds? Isn't the fact that we bought the upgrade enough?
We are getting real close to a break even for replacing the entire pile of trash with a new Cisco when I figure in the rebates (assuming Cisco still considers the 3com a competitive unit).
if someone could elaborate a little on the list about what cisco has been willing to do on 3com trade-in's I would be interested. What is the box to move to? as5400?
Mark Thornton San Marcos Internet, Inc. 512-393-5300
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----------------------------------------------- Brian Feeny, CCNA, CCDA signal@shreve.net Network Administrator ShreveNet Inc. (ASN 11881) - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
if someone could elaborate a little on the list about what cisco has been willing to do on 3com trade-in's I would be interested. What is the box to move to? as5400?
According to Cisco's site they are offering $125 per port for competitive upgrades. The 5400 looks sweet to me. Mark Thornton San Marcos Internet, Inc. 512-393-5300 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
On Thu, 21 Sep 2000, Mark Thornton wrote:
if someone could elaborate a little on the list about what cisco has been willing to do on 3com trade-in's I would be interested. What is the box to move to? as5400?
According to Cisco's site they are offering $125 per port for competitive upgrades. The 5400 looks sweet to me.
hmm, so if you had 1200 ports you would get $150,000........how many ports of AS5400 can that buy? Or actually, what does 1200 ports of AS5400 cost? Brian
Mark Thornton San Marcos Internet, Inc. 512-393-5300
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----------------------------------------------- Brian Feeny, CCNA, CCDA signal@shreve.net Network Administrator ShreveNet Inc. (ASN 11881) - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
if someone could elaborate a little on the list about what cisco has been willing to do on 3com trade-in's I would be interested. What is the box to move to? as5400? According to Cisco's site they are offering $125 per port for competitive upgrades. The 5400 looks sweet to me. hmm, so if you had 1200 ports you would get $150,000........how many ports of AS5400 can that buy? Or actually, what does 1200 ports of AS5400 cost? as5400 - newer, modern hardware. As prompts my expirence - it must have many-many problems, in hardware, portware and IOS. May be after 1-1.5 year new platform to be a usefull... (or not usefull - look at as5800, IMHO)
as5300 with MICA still have some problems. Not so much as HiPer, but still have... ;) Now my best choice of NAS - Cisco AS5300, but USR HiPer still have more good worked modem in HiPer-DSP and has some user choice... ;) So, we have two modem-pool - one on HiPer-s and one on as5300-s. Good luck ! ====================== Andrey Zimin | AVZ7-RIPE MTU-Intel ISP Moscow, Russia ====================== - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Mark Thornton (mark@corridor.net) wrote:
According to Cisco's site they are offering $125 per port for competitive upgrades. The 5400 looks sweet to me.
Do you have a URL for that handy? I've been searching around the Cisco site and haven't found it yet. Also, is anyone using Ericsson Tigris gear? If so, what do you think? We need to buy a new RAS soon and will probably go with another TC with a full house of cards, since we have so much ofit already, but do want to eval other products as well. We're evaluating an Ericsson 3-slot model right now and my feeling so far is that while I like the HARC CLI better, I could get used to the Ericsson. We have not had a connection failure with any ISDN or modem test so far, and ISDN authentication is lightning-fast. On the downside, Ericsson doesn't have an equivalent of Total Control Manager. It does come with a more generalized MIB browser with some monitoring capability (Riverview/SNMPc), but this seems a far cry from TC in terms of the functionality it provides. I'm kind of kicking around the idea of getting a non-TC product at this juncture partly so that we have someplace for customers to go (other than our competitors) if they have modems that don't play nice with TC. If anybody is using Ericsson or Cisco, I'd be very happy to hear your opinion and real-world experiences with them. TIA, Jonathan Byrne Engineering Division Exodus Communications K.K. http://www.exodus.co.jp/ Tel: +81 3-5334-1700 Fax: +81 3-5334-1702 Direct: +81 3-5334-1756 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
I found it by going to the 5400 site and clicking on competitive upgrades. We are currently sticking with the 3Com as the last issue of code, including the unreleased HiperArc engineering release has resolved a great majority of our problems. We only have a couple of clients with 'terminal' (pun intended) connection problems, and I think they are not upgrading their modem code because their computers come from 'reputable' manufacturers so it must be my fault, yada yada yada. The support issues are still there though we were able to get a decent deal on the software update license. I haven't yet gotten a quote on phone support only but I hear that is supposed to be a new option available to us. Mark Thornton San Marcos Internet, Inc. 512-393-5300 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Byrne" <byrnej@gol.com> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 12:11 AM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) What platform are others moving to?
Mark Thornton (mark@corridor.net) wrote:
According to Cisco's site they are offering $125 per port for competitive upgrades. The 5400 looks sweet to me.
Do you have a URL for that handy? I've been searching around the Cisco site and haven't found it yet.
Also, is anyone using Ericsson Tigris gear? If so, what do you think? We need to buy a new RAS soon and will probably go with another TC with a full house of cards, since we have so much ofit already, but do want to eval other products as well.
We're evaluating an Ericsson 3-slot model right now and my feeling so far is that while I like the HARC CLI better, I could get used to the Ericsson. We have not had a connection failure with any ISDN or modem test so far, and ISDN authentication is lightning-fast.
On the downside, Ericsson doesn't have an equivalent of Total Control Manager. It does come with a more generalized MIB browser with some monitoring capability (Riverview/SNMPc), but this seems a far cry from TC in terms of the functionality it provides.
I'm kind of kicking around the idea of getting a non-TC product at this juncture partly so that we have someplace for customers to go (other than our competitors) if they have modems that don't play nice with TC.
If anybody is using Ericsson or Cisco, I'd be very happy to hear your opinion and real-world experiences with them.
TIA,
Jonathan Byrne Engineering Division Exodus Communications K.K. http://www.exodus.co.jp/ Tel: +81 3-5334-1700 Fax: +81 3-5334-1702 Direct: +81 3-5334-1756
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I notice you guys are talking about Cisco Upgrades. They are always buying ports of other manufactures for credit towards purchases. Depending on the Manufacture rates per port vary. I have 100's or Cabletron and Bay Networks ports available for trade-in. I can assure you my price to you and the trade in credit from Cisco will work in your favor. Anyone looking to go that route with Cisco please contact me. At 09:04 AM 11/16/2000 -0600, you wrote:
I found it by going to the 5400 site and clicking on competitive upgrades.
We are currently sticking with the 3Com as the last issue of code, including the unreleased HiperArc engineering release has resolved a great majority of our problems. We only have a couple of clients with 'terminal' (pun intended) connection problems, and I think they are not upgrading their modem code because their computers come from 'reputable' manufacturers so it must be my fault, yada yada yada.
The support issues are still there though we were able to get a decent deal on the software update license. I haven't yet gotten a quote on phone support only but I hear that is supposed to be a new option available to us.
Mark Thornton San Marcos Internet, Inc. 512-393-5300
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jonathan Byrne" <byrnej@gol.com> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2000 12:11 AM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) What platform are others moving to?
Mark Thornton (mark@corridor.net) wrote:
According to Cisco's site they are offering $125 per port for competitive upgrades. The 5400 looks sweet to me.
Do you have a URL for that handy? I've been searching around the Cisco site and haven't found it yet.
Also, is anyone using Ericsson Tigris gear? If so, what do you think? We need to buy a new RAS soon and will probably go with another TC with a full house of cards, since we have so much ofit already, but do want to eval other products as well.
We're evaluating an Ericsson 3-slot model right now and my feeling so far is that while I like the HARC CLI better, I could get used to the Ericsson. We have not had a connection failure with any ISDN or modem test so far, and ISDN authentication is lightning-fast.
On the downside, Ericsson doesn't have an equivalent of Total Control Manager. It does come with a more generalized MIB browser with some monitoring capability (Riverview/SNMPc), but this seems a far cry from TC in terms of the functionality it provides.
I'm kind of kicking around the idea of getting a non-TC product at this juncture partly so that we have someplace for customers to go (other than our competitors) if they have modems that don't play nice with TC.
If anybody is using Ericsson or Cisco, I'd be very happy to hear your opinion and real-world experiences with them.
TIA,
Jonathan Byrne Engineering Division Exodus Communications K.K. http://www.exodus.co.jp/ Tel: +81 3-5334-1700 Fax: +81 3-5334-1702 Direct: +81 3-5334-1756
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In the process of upgrading the code on my digital quad modem. I had a few fail the upgrade and now the modem LED's are blinking red. I can't remember the fix for this. anyone else remember? Thanks Randy robotnic@forcomm.net - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
I've had modem cards in this state. I've just gone back in, and reflashed them. Works fine. Chad
In the process of upgrading the code on my digital quad modem. I had a few fail the upgrade and now the modem LED's are blinking red. I can't remember the fix for this. anyone else remember? Thanks Randy robotnic@forcomm.net
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If you need replacement modems I have them. At 10:16 AM 11/16/2000 -0500, you wrote:
In the process of upgrading the code on my digital quad modem. I had a few fail the upgrade and now the modem LED's are blinking red. I can't remember the fix for this. anyone else remember? Thanks Randy robotnic@forcomm.net
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participants (12)
-
Andrey Zimin -
Bob Purdon -
Brian -
Chad Schwartz -
Charles Sprickman -
Jonathan Byrne -
Mark Thornton -
Marshall Morgan -
Paul Farber -
Randy Lyle -
Steve Rivera -www.wrca.net -
Wayne Barber