(usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List
I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond. -- Ted Mecimore Operations Manager Vista Technology - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
They don't... if so they should have responded to the Ascend vs. 3com issues months ago. Customers apparently are expendable since they advertise like AOL. I say stop all advertising until you fix your products 3com... funnel those funds into your product and make it better than ever and blow the competition away with superior products. Forget sending the next batch of 3com 3x5 cards with deals on it out to every service across the nation... forget advertising in the trade rags... forget going to every trade show around the country... forget smoozing the Sales team and there clients... forget the "deals". Give us guts and glory... make the systems work the way they should. <steps down> Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mecimore" <tmecimor@vistatech.net> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond. -- Ted Mecimore Operations Manager Vista Technology - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
I know if we had to do it all over again.. it wouldn't be with 3com. We have purchased our last 3com equipment until we get commitment to fix problems instead of marketing hype. Come to think about it... there have been many statements of commitment... we need real fixes. We've even been thinking about swapping all our 3com equipment out, but now lucent owns Ascend and you never know what it will become. At 10:20 AM 2/3/00 -0500, you wrote:
They don't... if so they should have responded to the Ascend vs. 3com issues months ago. Customers apparently are expendable since they advertise like AOL. I say stop all advertising until you fix your products 3com... funnel those funds into your product and make it better than ever and blow the competition away with superior products. Forget sending the next batch of 3com 3x5 cards with deals on it out to every service across the nation... forget advertising in the trade rags... forget going to every trade show around the country... forget smoozing the Sales team and there clients... forget the "deals". Give us guts and glory... make the systems work the way they should.
<steps down>
Ed
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ted Mecimore" <tmecimor@vistatech.net> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:02 AM Subject: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List
I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond.
-- Ted Mecimore Operations Manager Vista Technology
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
We are also looking at the ascend systems. The ascend/lucent marriage make us a little unsure. I am not a fan of portmasters after fighting some we acquired. The TC boxes are great when it is cranking. But...... I really need support, when i need it. 24x7x365. It is hard to explain why "I can connect to xyz provider, why can't i connect to you..." -- Ted Mecimore Operations Manager Vista Technology - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
When was the last time you had a 3Com rep tell you that you are the only site he/she knows that is experiencing these problems? How many times before that with different reps? I think it is a trained response, whether we are talking about TCH dialup systems or the TCH adsl systems. The other thing that seems obvious to me is that the ISP business must not be the driving financial group behing the TCH product. If it were then we wouldn't be seeing all these weird add-on features like VOIP just so the annual report can say they are in the market. Who really is the biggest consumer of the TCH system? Mark Thornton San Marcos Internet, Inc. 512-393-5300 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Whats going on with these HSP modem and how do you get them to connect to Hiper DSP's. These damn compatablity issues are killing me, when is V.90 going to WORK? Brian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Thornton" <mark@corridor.net> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 10:55 AM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List
When was the last time you had a 3Com rep tell you that you are the only site he/she knows that is experiencing these problems? How many times before that with different reps? I think it is a trained response, whether we are talking about TCH dialup systems or the TCH adsl systems.
The other thing that seems obvious to me is that the ISP business must not be the driving financial group behing the TCH product. If it were then we wouldn't be seeing all these weird add-on features like VOIP just so the annual report can say they are in the market. Who really is the biggest consumer of the TCH system?
Mark Thornton San Marcos Internet, Inc. 512-393-5300
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Thus spake Brian Gordon
Whats going on with these HSP modem and how do you get them to connect to Hiper DSP's.
My understanding is that the HSP modems are just an HCF modem with sound card functionality included with it. So...proly need to handle them the same way you do an HCF. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Mark Thornton wrote:
The other thing that seems obvious to me is that the ISP business must not be the driving financial group behing the TCH product.
I still maintain my theory that 3com is shooting for the big telco carriers' business for TCH. Such a market is already conditioned to paying premium prices for equipment. They're already conditioned to paying extortionate prices for service contracts without question. And that market makes the handful of million$ that this list's users represent look like small potatos in comparison. Why should 3com even care about pipsqueak ISPs who only have a couple of chassis'...or even larger ISPs who have a couple mill$ worth of chassis, when they can be spending their time courting a market that spends billions$ at a time? Not to mention that said market won't be whining about service contract pricing...they just file for a rate- increase tarriff to cover the added expense. - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
I still maintain my theory that 3com is shooting for the big telco carriers' business for TCH.
I believe you are correct. Around the time 3COM took on USR, we lost our account rep and were told that only the large telco's were allowed to have rep's. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Purdon, Ground Floor, Marine Board Building Technical Manager (Tas/Vic), 1 Franklin Wharf, Tas 7000 Southern Internet Services. +61 (3) 6234 7444 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
On Fri, 4 Feb 2000, Lists wrote:
I still maintain my theory that 3com is shooting for the big telco carriers' business for TCH.
I believe you are correct. Around the time 3COM took on USR, we lost our account rep and were told that only the large telco's were allowed to have rep's.
So thats why I never see our 3com rep anymore..........how lame. I think that really did alot for strengthing relationships. I did have lunch with an Ascend rep about 6 months ago though. Then he came back with 3 other guys and we went to lunch again.........vendor kissing up or good service? I don't know.............when 3com sent a rep, I believe that was good service, knowledgable, always filled us with ideas to buy more stuff, and it worked alot of times, we had someone on a first name basis I could talk to to cut thru the bureacracy......... Brian
------------------------------------------------------------------------ Bob Purdon, Ground Floor, Marine Board Building Technical Manager (Tas/Vic), 1 Franklin Wharf, Tas 7000 Southern Internet Services. +61 (3) 6234 7444
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
----------------------------------------------------- Brian Feeny (BF304) signal@shreve.net 318-222-2638 x 109 http://www.shreve.net/~signal Network Administrator ShreveNet Inc. (ASN 11881) - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Thus spake Ted Mecimore
I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond.
Yes...there are many 3Com folks on the list...most lurking, but they're there. In fact...last I checked...the main list was about 1/10 3Com folks (that's 3com.com and usr.com domains). Now...how much 3Com *responds* to the list is still somewhat in doubt, but you do see some responses on at least some subjects (my message yesterday morning about the support contract has elicited a couple of calls now). 3Com is listening...we've yet to see how well they respond to it though. :) Kinda goes back to that beaurocracy thing I talked about a couple of months ago I think. :) -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Jeff I believe they listen to you because they know you are fairly intelligent on the 3com systems and you have been on this list helping others for so long that others listen to you. However they aren't listening to most people who complain... and they definitely aren't fixing certain problems. 3com connectivity issues and v.90 problems aren't fixed and haven't even been modified to my knowledge... Ascend is still kicking 3com's butt in v.90 connects. Also Support Contract issues seem to elude them... they cannot grasp such simple thinking as give a little and gain a lot. If I were head of 3com I would be DEEPLY upset if people spoke about my products in such a way. I would do something about it. Maybe the people who would care don't see the list...? ShareHolders and Executives Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Mcadams" <jeffm@iglou.com> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:05 AM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List Thus spake Ted Mecimore
I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond.
Yes...there are many 3Com folks on the list...most lurking, but they're there. In fact...last I checked...the main list was about 1/10 3Com folks (that's 3com.com and usr.com domains). Now...how much 3Com *responds* to the list is still somewhat in doubt, but you do see some responses on at least some subjects (my message yesterday morning about the support contract has elicited a couple of calls now). 3Com is listening...we've yet to see how well they respond to it though. :) Kinda goes back to that beaurocracy thing I talked about a couple of months ago I think. :) -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Someone on this list must know someone at 3com with some clout. Why doesn't that person simply ask 3com to monitor the list and respond to the requests. I know it sounds simplistic but if a few calls should get things rollings. I don't many at 3com but I know vendors and they must know someone. Maybe we can get together and figure out who knows the mightiest at 3com and push until they particpate. Or we could just start signing people at 3com upto list :) Terry Kennedy OlyPen, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ed Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 8:15 AM To: usr-tc@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List Jeff I believe they listen to you because they know you are fairly intelligent on the 3com systems and you have been on this list helping others for so long that others listen to you. However they aren't listening to most people who complain... and they definitely aren't fixing certain problems. 3com connectivity issues and v.90 problems aren't fixed and haven't even been modified to my knowledge... Ascend is still kicking 3com's butt in v.90 connects. Also Support Contract issues seem to elude them... they cannot grasp such simple thinking as give a little and gain a lot. If I were head of 3com I would be DEEPLY upset if people spoke about my products in such a way. I would do something about it. Maybe the people who would care don't see the list...? ShareHolders and Executives Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Mcadams" <jeffm@iglou.com> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:05 AM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List Thus spake Ted Mecimore
I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond.
Yes...there are many 3Com folks on the list...most lurking, but they're there. In fact...last I checked...the main list was about 1/10 3Com folks (that's 3com.com and usr.com domains). Now...how much 3Com *responds* to the list is still somewhat in doubt, but you do see some responses on at least some subjects (my message yesterday morning about the support contract has elicited a couple of calls now). 3Com is listening...we've yet to see how well they respond to it though. :) Kinda goes back to that beaurocracy thing I talked about a couple of months ago I think. :) -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
It seems that no matter how angry this list has gotten in the past, no acknowledgement ever came from 3Com regarding the subject. I've been on the list for some time and times have been pretty heated occasionally. There have been heated discussions about the old Netserver software and support issues. Numerous times there have been discussions about 3Com client modems connecting at v90 rates with Ascend servers but not with 3Com servers. The $$ for tech support (or lack thereof) comes up all the time. Tech support has improved but most of us still have significant issues with it as is. There is still a saliva test to prove who you are before anyone will talk to you. If someone with clout is monitoring it, they have remained mute on any subject in here. At 09:03 AM 2/3/00 -0800, you wrote:
Someone on this list must know someone at 3com with some clout. Why doesn't that person simply ask 3com to monitor the list and respond to the requests. I know it sounds simplistic but if a few calls should get things rollings. I don't many at 3com but I know vendors and they must know someone. Maybe we can get together and figure out who knows the mightiest at 3com and push until they particpate. Or we could just start signing people at 3com upto list :)
Terry Kennedy OlyPen, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ed Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 8:15 AM To: usr-tc@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List
Jeff I believe they listen to you because they know you are fairly intelligent on the 3com systems and you have been on this list helping others for so long that others listen to you. However they aren't listening to most people who complain... and they definitely aren't fixing certain problems. 3com connectivity issues and v.90 problems aren't fixed and haven't even been modified to my knowledge... Ascend is still kicking 3com's butt in v.90 connects. Also Support Contract issues seem to elude them... they cannot grasp such simple thinking as give a little and gain a lot.
If I were head of 3com I would be DEEPLY upset if people spoke about my products in such a way. I would do something about it. Maybe the people who would care don't see the list...? ShareHolders and Executives
Ed
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Mcadams" <jeffm@iglou.com> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:05 AM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List
Thus spake Ted Mecimore
I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond.
Yes...there are many 3Com folks on the list...most lurking, but they're there. In fact...last I checked...the main list was about 1/10 3Com folks (that's 3com.com and usr.com domains). Now...how much 3Com *responds* to the list is still somewhat in doubt, but you do see some responses on at least some subjects (my message yesterday morning about the support contract has elicited a couple of calls now).
3Com is listening...we've yet to see how well they respond to it though. :) Kinda goes back to that beaurocracy thing I talked about a couple of months ago I think. :) -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Thanks, Greg Coffey <gcoffey@vcn.com> Visionary Communications V 307-234-5443 F 307-234-5446 100 N. Center Suite #100, Casper, WY 82601 www.vcn.com - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Greg Coffey wrote:
It seems that no matter how angry this list has gotten in the past, no acknowledgement ever came from 3Com regarding the subject. I've been on
thats not entirely true. This list banded together, and drafted a Top Ten Unresolved Issues list, and then it was signed by dozens of president/ceo's/admins and presented to 3com managment, from what I understand, it went all the way to the top. 3Com responded officially to this with a document. Results did follow on many issues. It helps to aggregate our complaints and put them in writing, otherwise we are just a bunch of seperate incidents. We can do this again. It is my opinion that it should start with an outline you know like: I. ARC issues A. OSPF Broken 1. default route disappears II. DSP issues A. HCF modem compatibility III. Support Contracts . . . etc. Then each member of the list can take a chunk, write it up, and someone could assmeble it. We could then get 20, 30, 40 ISP's on this list, which represents a significant amount of revenue, enough for them to listen, and sign it. I am not going to lead this, because I have alot going on right now, but I would definitly take a few chunks of the outline and write up some paragraphs. We prioritise the issues, and this way we give them something to work off of. Brian
the list for some time and times have been pretty heated occasionally. There have been heated discussions about the old Netserver software and support issues. Numerous times there have been discussions about 3Com client modems connecting at v90 rates with Ascend servers but not with 3Com servers. The $$ for tech support (or lack thereof) comes up all the time. Tech support has improved but most of us still have significant issues with it as is. There is still a saliva test to prove who you are before anyone will talk to you. If someone with clout is monitoring it, they have remained mute on any subject in here.
At 09:03 AM 2/3/00 -0800, you wrote:
Someone on this list must know someone at 3com with some clout. Why doesn't that person simply ask 3com to monitor the list and respond to the requests. I know it sounds simplistic but if a few calls should get things rollings. I don't many at 3com but I know vendors and they must know someone. Maybe we can get together and figure out who knows the mightiest at 3com and push until they particpate. Or we could just start signing people at 3com upto list :)
Terry Kennedy OlyPen, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ed Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 8:15 AM To: usr-tc@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List
Jeff I believe they listen to you because they know you are fairly intelligent on the 3com systems and you have been on this list helping others for so long that others listen to you. However they aren't listening to most people who complain... and they definitely aren't fixing certain problems. 3com connectivity issues and v.90 problems aren't fixed and haven't even been modified to my knowledge... Ascend is still kicking 3com's butt in v.90 connects. Also Support Contract issues seem to elude them... they cannot grasp such simple thinking as give a little and gain a lot.
If I were head of 3com I would be DEEPLY upset if people spoke about my products in such a way. I would do something about it. Maybe the people who would care don't see the list...? ShareHolders and Executives
Ed
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Mcadams" <jeffm@iglou.com> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:05 AM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List
Thus spake Ted Mecimore
I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond.
Yes...there are many 3Com folks on the list...most lurking, but they're there. In fact...last I checked...the main list was about 1/10 3Com folks (that's 3com.com and usr.com domains). Now...how much 3Com *responds* to the list is still somewhat in doubt, but you do see some responses on at least some subjects (my message yesterday morning about the support contract has elicited a couple of calls now).
3Com is listening...we've yet to see how well they respond to it though. :) Kinda goes back to that beaurocracy thing I talked about a couple of months ago I think. :) -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Thanks, Greg Coffey <gcoffey@vcn.com> Visionary Communications V 307-234-5443 F 307-234-5446 100 N. Center Suite #100, Casper, WY 82601 www.vcn.com
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
----------------------------------------------------- Brian Feeny (BF304) signal@shreve.net 318-222-2638 x 109 http://www.shreve.net/~signal Network Administrator ShreveNet Inc. (ASN 11881) - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Brian wrote: I. ARC issues A. OSPF Broken 1. default route disappears II. DSP issues A. HCF modem compatibility III. Support Contracts Add... II.B. Complete testing routines for TCM (like the quads) III.A. Make Support Contracts available on a per-engineer basis. Kevin E-Mail: s1kevin@tims.net Web: http://users.sota-oh.com/~s1kevin/ Unsolicited advertisements processing fee: $50 subject to change without notice - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Greg Coffey wrote:
It seems that no matter how angry this list has gotten in the past, no acknowledgement ever came from 3Com regarding the subject. I've been on
Ditto, however, if you talk to your sales rep, you're more likely to get a straight answer than here. I'm not trying to defend 3Com, however, I do know that talking to our sales rep helped us understand things a bit more from the inside. Kevin E-Mail: s1kevin@tims.net Web: http://users.sota-oh.com/~s1kevin/ Unsolicited advertisements processing fee: $50 subject to change without notice - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
I remember a few years ago users made a big stink about the Netserver platform, posted an open letter to the exec's at USR and posted the return letter. Mainly it was 'we're working on it for the TC ARC' as the standard response. Hey, the ARC probibly has more issues than the netserver did. Someone got that originals so we can once again see history repeat itself? I shouldn't have to beg for a good product. I should have it thrust upon me. I'm starting to like my new sig line - See ya'll on the Ascend list! Paul Farber Farber Technology farber@admin.f-tech.net Ph 570-628-5303 Fax 570-628-5545 On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Terry Kennedy wrote:
Someone on this list must know someone at 3com with some clout. Why doesn't that person simply ask 3com to monitor the list and respond to the requests. I know it sounds simplistic but if a few calls should get things rollings. I don't many at 3com but I know vendors and they must know someone. Maybe we can get together and figure out who knows the mightiest at 3com and push until they particpate. Or we could just start signing people at 3com upto list :)
Terry Kennedy OlyPen, Inc.
-----Original Message----- From: owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-usr-tc@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ed Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 8:15 AM To: usr-tc@lists.xmission.com Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List
Jeff I believe they listen to you because they know you are fairly intelligent on the 3com systems and you have been on this list helping others for so long that others listen to you. However they aren't listening to most people who complain... and they definitely aren't fixing certain problems. 3com connectivity issues and v.90 problems aren't fixed and haven't even been modified to my knowledge... Ascend is still kicking 3com's butt in v.90 connects. Also Support Contract issues seem to elude them... they cannot grasp such simple thinking as give a little and gain a lot.
If I were head of 3com I would be DEEPLY upset if people spoke about my products in such a way. I would do something about it. Maybe the people who would care don't see the list...? ShareHolders and Executives
Ed
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Mcadams" <jeffm@iglou.com> To: <usr-tc@lists.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2000 11:05 AM Subject: Re: (usr-tc) Does 3Com Monitor List
Thus spake Ted Mecimore
I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond.
Yes...there are many 3Com folks on the list...most lurking, but they're there. In fact...last I checked...the main list was about 1/10 3Com folks (that's 3com.com and usr.com domains). Now...how much 3Com *responds* to the list is still somewhat in doubt, but you do see some responses on at least some subjects (my message yesterday morning about the support contract has elicited a couple of calls now).
3Com is listening...we've yet to see how well they respond to it though. :) Kinda goes back to that beaurocracy thing I talked about a couple of months ago I think. :) -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Thus spake Ed
Jeff I believe they listen to you because they know you are fairly intelligent on the 3com systems and you have been on this list helping others for so long that others listen to you.
Well, I appreciate the implicit compliment there. :) I don't know that *I'm* listened to particularly though. I think 3Com really does listen to the list as a whole, but perhaps because of the reasons you say (and its hard for me to acknowledge that what you say is true since it comes down to me evaluating myself which I suck at...we'll go with it though) I've become known to folks within 3Com as someone that maybe has his finger on the pulse of the list? I dunno...kinda grasping at explanations maybe. I feel relatively confident though, that without the rest of the list saying things as well, I wouldn't be listened to within 3Com just because I'm a nice guy and help people. :) If I said something was a problem and the rest of the list ignored what I was saying...I might get *some* results just because I know a lot of people and I'm generally good at agitating...but I doubt I would get very far. :)
However they aren't listening to most people who complain... and they definitely aren't fixing certain problems. 3com connectivity issues and v.90 problems aren't fixed and haven't even been modified to my knowledge... Ascend is still kicking 3com's butt in v.90 connects. Also Support Contract issues seem to elude them... they cannot grasp such simple thinking as give a little and gain a lot.
I really think (and have even had some folks, which will remain nameless here, within 3Com agree with me) that the problem is really one of beaurocracy. 3Com is listening, and is working on the problems...just not even close to the speed at which we think it should/could be done.
From the discussions that I've had with folks about the support contract issues...its seems that 3Com is trying to fix everything in one fell swoop rather than taking little steps. My opinion is also that 3Com tends (again, this will probably sound familiar to many of you) seems to be making decisions on where to go largely without the feedback from customers. While they are moving...and maybe mostly even in a forward direction...without feedback and guidance from customers its just terribly easy for 3Com to take a step to the side or back and not realize it.
While I've gotten a couple of calls, as I mentioned, in the past couple of days regarding the support contract issues...and this is a good thing, at least a good start...this is largely an anomoly...most decisions at 3Com seem to be made in a vacuum of customer input and feedback. Let me also qualify this a bit...I'm speaking with my experience with Total Control...we don't have any other 3Com equipment (maybe a NIC or two...nothing significant), so things on the enterprise (corebuilder, netbuilder, pathbuilder, etc.) side of the house may be different...and the feeling that I got up at Networks3 indicates that maybe it is different on that side of things. I don't know for sure though. The enterprise side of things does have the 3Com user's group that represents them fairly well apparently. I know there have been some people that wanted to get carrier folks involved with the user group more...and I think I have even been told that there are some people interested in getting a 3Com carrier (which would include ISPs) user group started up as a seperate entity from the main user group. I think this would be a good idea and would definitely be involved.
If I were head of 3com I would be DEEPLY upset if people spoke about my products in such a way. I would do something about it. Maybe the people who would care don't see the list...? ShareHolders and Executives
Well...I do know that there are some *fairly* high up people that are on the list, but I suspect its rather too high of traffic for the likes of the executive officers and such. :) I do know that *some* of the content does make it up to them on occasion...which content I really don't know, but some of it does. :) -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456 - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Jeff Mcadams wrote:
However they aren't listening to most people who complain... and they definitely aren't fixing certain problems. 3com connectivity issues and v.90 problems aren't fixed and haven't even been modified to my knowledge... Ascend is still kicking 3com's butt in v.90 connects. Also Support Contract issues seem to elude them... they cannot grasp such simple thinking as give a little and gain a lot.
I really think (and have even had some folks, which will remain nameless here, within 3Com agree with me) that the problem is really one of beaurocracy. 3Com is listening, and is working on the problems...just not even close to the speed at which we think it should/could be done.
From the discussions that I've had with folks about the support contract issues...its seems that 3Com is trying to fix everything in one fell swoop rather than taking little steps. My opinion is also that 3Com tends (again, this will probably sound familiar to many of you) seems to be making decisions on where to go largely without the feedback from customers. While they are moving...and maybe mostly even in a forward direction...without feedback and guidance from customers its just terribly easy for 3Com to take a step to the side or back and not realize it.
Part of the problem is the fact that 3Com/USR allowed themselves to get into contracts which would kill their ability to really promote things to the smaller companies. Part of the reason (for example) why Quad modems have to have an X2/V.90 key is because of a contract 3Com signed with a company (name escapes me but AT&T comes to mind). I was told that the contract states that all Quad modems that use X2/V.90 be licensed to use it. Those that aren't licensed to use the protocol are not authorized to do X2/V.90. This is why the keys are enforced. Much in the same way, big telcos are required to pay for support on a per chassis basis mostly because there are so many people who could possibly administer them that there is no way that 3Com could effectively charge a single dollar amount that would cover them for the ILEC's chassis's and still offer a price competitive solution to small ISP's. In order to cover itself, 3Com had to make contractual agreements with those big companies to make sure that they wouldn't "go under." I have suggested a couple of times that 3Com work on a support contract which would be offered per company specifically to people who had taken the time to receive 3Com training. That support would be available only to those people listed on the contract who had been certified to have taken and completed the training to some reasonable standard. At contract renewal time, they could be required to take a refresher course or something. That way, at least then they'd know that they weren't dealing with 200 people who'd never seen what TCM looked like and had no vested interest in learning the chassis enough to make sure that they wouldn't need to be calling ever time they wanted to busy out a modem for example. 3Com would be able to make money on the training and the support simply because people who would be calling in on those support contracts would already have some minimum level of training - hence send them straight to level two people or at least handle it a bit more professionally than "unplug your card, set switch 6 on, then plug it back in" before even bothering to find out what the problem is (been there, done that :( ). I now work for an ISP which has over 330,000 subscribers and there are some tech's out there (within our company) which don't know TC's well at all. I am beginning to see why there's a charge per chassis on contracts. Oh, by the way, our company does not have a support contract. Are you kidding? We purchase enough chassis per week that would cover us for an entire year of free warranty support. It's not their fault that they don't know it - they just haven't been well exposed to it. What should 3Com do if we were to ask for a single support contract for our entire company? Now that wouldn't be fair to the little guy if they didn't base it somehow on the number of chassis's we owned... It might be a bit more fair if the contracts were time based. I will leave that up to 3Com. Kevin E-Mail: s1kevin@tims.net Web: http://users.sota-oh.com/~s1kevin/ Unsolicited advertisements processing fee: $50 subject to change without notice - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Jeff Mcadams wrote:
Let me also qualify this a bit...I'm speaking with my experience with Total Control...we don't have any other 3Com equipment (maybe a NIC or two...nothing significant), so things on the enterprise (corebuilder, netbuilder, pathbuilder, etc.) side of the house may be different...and the feeling that I got up at Networks3 indicates that maybe it is different on that side of things. I don't know for sure though.
Consumer side better WRT support. I'm a big fan of their OfficeConnect stuff; I use the hubs and switches and, for smaller clients, their ISDN LANmodems. Granted, with your typical ethernet switch, tech support isn't much of an issue....it either works or it's broken. But if it's broken, you can call 'em and get an RMA number without any troubles or DNA testing. And for things like the LANmodem, current code is available to anybody who wants it off of the website. Like it should be. - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
Good news and bad news... good news... I found a ton of info on lucent/ascend produts for the new pop. Bad news... 3Com got paid for my service contract 10/5/99 and it's 2/2/00 and I STILL can't get support, or my money back. Sorry to have to screw a vendor... Ryan at Source Technology is right behind Shawn Hogan of Datapoint Solutions (Optigold fame) as helpful dude of the decade. I need my money, or the support. See ya'll on the ISP-equipment list and the ascend lists. Paul Farber Farber Technology farber@admin.f-tech.net Ph 570-628-5303 Fax 570-628-5545 On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Jeff Mcadams wrote:
Thus spake Ted Mecimore
I was wondering if any 3Com folks are lurking out there. With all the "adventure" dealing the DSP vs HCF battle I am wondering how they plan to respond.
Yes...there are many 3Com folks on the list...most lurking, but they're there. In fact...last I checked...the main list was about 1/10 3Com folks (that's 3com.com and usr.com domains). Now...how much 3Com *responds* to the list is still somewhat in doubt, but you do see some responses on at least some subjects (my message yesterday morning about the support contract has elicited a couple of calls now).
3Com is listening...we've yet to see how well they respond to it though. :) Kinda goes back to that beaurocracy thing I talked about a couple of months ago I think. :) -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
- To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
On Thu, 3 Feb 2000, Paul Farber wrote:
Sorry to have to screw a vendor... Ryan at Source Technology is right behind Shawn Hogan of Datapoint Solutions (Optigold fame) as helpful dude of the decade. I need my money, or the support.
I dunno about Datapoint Solutions, but *everyone* at Source Technology rocks. Well, everyone I've spoken to. *IF* I consider TCH equipment in the future, it's because of the people at Source and the people on this list....not 3com (well, except the 3com people who partipate here....Krish & Mike, et.al. rock too). - To unsubscribe to usr-tc, send an email to "majordomo@xmission.com" with "unsubscribe usr-tc" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
participants (13)
-
Brian -
Brian Gordon -
Denis Newkirk -
Ed -
Greg Coffey -
Jeff Mcadams -
Kevin Benton -
Lists -
Lon R. Stockton, Jr. -
Mark Thornton -
Paul Farber -
Ted Mecimore -
Terry Kennedy