Amen!! As I sit here in 3com Rolling Meadows facility I can only say that 3com's Total Control products are superior in their own way. Ofcourse the support isnt free but as wayne explained lack of enforcement doent make Cisco support policies better. PS...expect version TCM4.7 in the next couple of months. FYI: Another thing to consider as I talk to the guys at 3com is... As much as we would like to see responses from 3com techs on this list its just not their job. 3com techs are available at the commworks user forum. Many of the responses that come from the 3com employees are done on their own time and we should appreciate that...So be easy on them. As I have been informed thats why they havent been adding in on your tech questions. They dont appreciate the email beatings they take for 3com...They are employees not owners or decision makers for the items that are complained about on this list. So lets keep that in mind when they do take the time to help us out. -----Original Message----- From: usr-tc-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:usr-tc-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of WayneG Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 2:34 PM To: usr-tc@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [USR-TC] Software Agreement
How is it Cisco can allow customers to freely download software and utilize resources that Commworks wants to charge for?
There is no doubt that Cisco is superior in producing a solid router that can easily exceed ANY possible need. However, after using their Digital Modems as an ISP RAS solution, I realized that although Cisco does routing VERY well, with excellent support, neither RAS nor CPE are their strong points. TC1000 is an excellent RAS product, (and 3Com makes great CPE products.) Their software contract is expensive, but then again, so is Cisco's support. Just because Cisco "allows" someone under any service contract to download any IOS version, doesn't make it legal. Cisco contract requires that you purchase a separate support contract for EVERY piece of Cisco gear that you want supported. And Cisco licensing requires that you purchase a separate license for EVERY IOS in every router. These IOS versions can sometimes cost more than the router itself. So don't confuse Cisco's lack of enforcement as better policies. -Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Bertolozzi" <berto@voyager.net> To: <usr-tc@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 8:31 AM Subject: RE: [USR-TC] Software Agreement
I couldn't resist in saying something since the 3com folk have piped up.
Cisco is FAR superior to Commworks when it comes to:
a) Their product
b) The software support
c) The technical support whether that be via TAC or just browsing through their homepage.
I have used both products for many years now and inititally thought the 3com product was awesome with it's high port density and their nifty snmp device (Total Control Manager). After a couple years I began to miss Cisco's reliabilty and their never ending plight to make sure the customer is happy.
On the 3com side I have seen nothing other then how they can make more money. They should invest more of their resources in their technical department then their accounting dept. How is it Cisco can allow customers to freely download software and utilize resources that Commworks wants to charge for? Maybe because Cisco is assured that they know what customers want and Commworks figures they better charge up the ying yang before everyone switches vendors realizing that they no longer put their time and resources into making a superior product.
BTW....many vendors will happily melt down the competitors products and do some sort of port exchange.
Todd
-----Original Message----- From: usr-tc-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:usr-tc-admin@mailman.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Jeff Mcadams Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 9:53 AM To: usr-tc@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [USR-TC] Software Agreement
Also sprach Lewis Bergman
On Monday 22 July 2002 04:11 pm, Thomas_Goodman@3com.com wrote:
All
There have been a few posts where people are asking the list for licensed software and some people taking a public risk by making arrangements to send it.
I hope we can avoid legal issues that can be caused by such activity and have attached copy of the license agreement that everyone must agree to before downloading code, any code, off of TotalService.
Another reason to think of some other NAS next time.
Agreed wholeheartedly.
I believe you should abide by any license for software you use.
Although, there is some debate over whether "click-wrap" or "shrink-wrap" licenses like this are legal or not, so it may be 3Com (and virtually every other commercial software developer on the planet) that's breaking the law here! Actually...it wouldn't be breaking the law, but the license agreement may very well not be enforceable.
Of course, there are plenty of other reasons not to use Total Control gear in this day and age...and I'll not go into those. :/
I am investigating Lucent's take on such things (although I note you can even download some v.92 code without a contract) more diligently. $2500 a year for software upgrades is highway robbery. I will also research Patton to find ISP's luck with connections and reliability.
Don't forget Cisco. I played with a AS5350...and its really quite nice. Seamless Modem, ISDN, Fax, VoIP, and TDM mux, all in one box for about the same price-per-port of a TC box, and much more reasonable support policies than 3Com/CommWorks. -- Jeff McAdams Email: jeffm@iglou.com Head Network Administrator Voice: (502) 966-3848 IgLou Internet Services (800) 436-4456
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