Well, remember that you can end up doing 100% via command line, SNMP instead of their cute graphical wrappers. Not much of a choice at this point: pony up for CEM or get used to the command line & SNMP tools if you want to have the latest code. I do sure wish TCM still worked - mainly because THAT I could easily show and teach my fellow techs fairly rapidly for the basic functions. At this point in the game I'm not inclined to bop out what, a grand (? per year?), for this pretty crude software. I couldn't get the CEM beta to install. Instructions totally suck. I'm not sure what they're thinking. Not that I dedicated the day to it. With as crappy as the instructions and install is, doesn't make me believe the program is going to really be worth a pinch of snot. SMT