No thoughts on Kipper...
So, not one person had any thoughts on Kipper. Very interesting. Do you think he is the person encouraging Sting to rely more on drum machines? Personally, that is one thing about his new sound that I could do without. KIM
Yes, lots of thoughts on Kipper...: I for one am absolutely delighted that he will NOT be touring with Sting this time around. Although he seems like a great guy, I just don't like what he has done to Sting's music, especially not on stage. For me, the absolute peak of Sting's career is still the TST tour - those four guys together kicked some serious butt! Besides the obvious fact that they were and are all incredible musicians, what made this line-up so great was their attitude - anything was possible. Listen to live recordings from this tour, and you will often hear small, improvised changes to the songs that made them grow and move constantly. It kept the guys on their toes all the time, and I just didn't feel that on the BND tour - it seemed much more like a preset performance being delivered. And I think Kipper is partly to blame for this, although in the end, Sting is the one who makes the decisions. But it is harder to improvise in the spur of the moment when the music relies so heavily on drum loops and sequencing. Also, If the rumours are true, it was Sting's fascination with Kipper's drum programming that drove Vinnie away from the BND recording sessions - and THAT is not easy to forgive ;-) !! Why Sting is so crazy about Kipper, I will never know. I'm fearing that he is developing a "Phil Collins-syndrome" where he starts relying too heavily on all the new possibilities of the modern technology and forgets to just play music! Sure, you can do amazing things with Kipper's equipment, and he definitely knows how to handle it, but you shouldn't use it just because you can - it should be musically warranted (which I have no doubt Sting will say that it is!). That said, I have higher hopes for the upcoming tour. I have a feeling that Sting, too, missed the TST days on the last tour and that he is trying to bring some of the magic back on stage this time. He is back to his "record as a blueprint" idea, and that is something he almost never mentioned during BND. So, now all we need is to get Vinnie and Sancious back, and things will start to brighten up ;-). Can't wait to hear Vinnie with Sting again on the BBC Radio 1 show. Mikkel -- "And my sanity scans the horizon" Sting - The Wild Wild Sea http://www.mzh.dk ---- Original Message ---- From: TaoofKim@aol.com To: police@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:59 AM Subject: [Police] No thoughts on Kipper...
So, not one person had any thoughts on Kipper. Very interesting. Do you think he is the person encouraging Sting to rely more on drum machines? Personally, that is one thing about his new sound that I could do without. KIM
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Finally I hear someone that thinks exactly the same as I do!.. I Totally agree with you Mikkel. In my total personal point of view, Kipper seems to me to be a very cool and easy going person. But to be honest, the only Sting CD that I don´t like from head to toe is BND, maybe is a coincidence that Kipper was in that album, or is just a Sting personal fascination to experiment with new technologies, don´t know. And well, for me is ok to be innovative, to be more creative, to experiment with new sounds..but for me that magic of the acoustic instantly creation has been starting to get lost. I really hope that is only my perception and not the sad reality. Also another thing that I agreee with Mikkel, is that for me the TST tour had an inspiring and explosive environment with only 4 musicians. Sadly, I didn´t have the opportunity to see them in that tour... But to be honest, I can almost say that I got more excited watching my old tape of the Helsinki Concert of the TST tour, watching Vinnie kicking ass in every song (also including some live mistakes that make him even more human and more passionate and ALIVE) pushing to the best in every aspect, also observing and getting goose bumps with David S. doing that amazing standing up solo in Bring on the night/when the world.... and all the improvisation, that I didn´t see in any concert in the BND tour that I went to... ( I didn´t go to any dates in the MF tour because he didn´t come to Mexico). Well anyway, maybe Kipper is the one to "blame" (I don´t liket to use this word) for this new "technology revolution" in Sting´s music, maybe it is Sting himself, I don´t know. But the only thing that I know is that for my personal point of view, the explosion that was in the "FAB 4" mix in the TST CD and Tour, is the most inspiring influence that Sting and his musicians have done with me. Sting has amazing musicians with him right now!! I can´t deny that! AMAZING! but I think that sometimes when you unite TOO many good musicians the result is not always that amazing (like having 5 Michael Jordans in one basketball team or 11 Ronaldos in one soccer team) I think that the chemistry that existed in the Sting-Miller-Sancious-Colaiuta blend, has been the most integrated, strong and inspiring that has existed in Sting´s bands. Some may agree, some not, well, this is just my point of view. And Mikkel, where can I sign up for that vinne come back campaign?? :-) My TOTAL RESPECT to Manu and to Kipper in the drum section both have great talent!!! Specially Manu´s work with cymbals (hats and splashes) but I think that Vinnie spices a lot much more Sting´s music (studio and Live) in my personal point of view! But lets don´t judge until we see what does the SL Tour have to offer us!! :-) Take Care! Javier :-) At 06:58 AM 9/11/2003 +0200, Mikkel Z. Herold wrote:
Yes, lots of thoughts on Kipper...:
I for one am absolutely delighted that he will NOT be touring with Sting this time around. Although he seems like a great guy, I just don't like what he has done to Sting's music, especially not on stage.
For me, the absolute peak of Sting's career is still the TST tour - those four guys together kicked some serious butt! Besides the obvious fact that they were and are all incredible musicians, what made this line-up so great was their attitude - anything was possible. Listen to live recordings from this tour, and you will often hear small, improvised changes to the songs that made them grow and move constantly. It kept the guys on their toes all the time, and I just didn't feel that on the BND tour - it seemed much more like a preset performance being delivered.
And I think Kipper is partly to blame for this, although in the end, Sting is the one who makes the decisions. But it is harder to improvise in the spur of the moment when the music relies so heavily on drum loops and sequencing. Also, If the rumours are true, it was Sting's fascination with Kipper's drum programming that drove Vinnie away from the BND recording sessions - and THAT is not easy to forgive ;-) !!
Why Sting is so crazy about Kipper, I will never know. I'm fearing that he is developing a "Phil Collins-syndrome" where he starts relying too heavily on all the new possibilities of the modern technology and forgets to just play music! Sure, you can do amazing things with Kipper's equipment, and he definitely knows how to handle it, but you shouldn't use it just because you can - it should be musically warranted (which I have no doubt Sting will say that it is!).
That said, I have higher hopes for the upcoming tour. I have a feeling that Sting, too, missed the TST days on the last tour and that he is trying to bring some of the magic back on stage this time. He is back to his "record as a blueprint" idea, and that is something he almost never mentioned during BND.
So, now all we need is to get Vinnie and Sancious back, and things will start to brighten up ;-). Can't wait to hear Vinnie with Sting again on the BBC Radio 1 show.
Mikkel
-- "And my sanity scans the horizon" Sting - The Wild Wild Sea
---- Original Message ---- From: TaoofKim@aol.com To: police@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:59 AM Subject: [Police] No thoughts on Kipper...
So, not one person had any thoughts on Kipper. Very interesting. Do you think he is the person encouraging Sting to rely more on drum machines? Personally, that is one thing about his new sound that I could do without. KIM
_______________________________________________ Police mailing list Police@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police
Police mailing list Police@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police
hey! memory is failing me: is the reason that vinnie no longer plays with sting is because they had a falling out? rich --- "Javier_Macías_B." <javmb@iname.com> wrote:
Finally I hear someone that thinks exactly the same as I do!.. I Totally agree with you Mikkel.
In my total personal point of view, Kipper seems to me to be a very cool and easy going person. But to be honest, the only Sting CD that I don´t like from head to toe is BND, maybe is a coincidence that Kipper was in that album, or is just a Sting personal fascination to experiment with new technologies, don´t know. And well, for me is ok to be innovative, to be more creative, to experiment with new sounds..but for me that magic of the acoustic instantly creation has been starting to get lost. I really hope that is only my perception and not the sad reality.
Also another thing that I agreee with Mikkel, is that for me the TST tour had an inspiring and explosive environment with only 4 musicians. Sadly, I didn´t have the opportunity to see them in that tour... But to be honest, I can almost say that I got more excited watching my old tape of the Helsinki Concert of the TST tour, watching Vinnie kicking ass in every song (also including some live mistakes that make him even more human and more passionate and ALIVE) pushing to the best in every aspect, also observing and getting goose bumps with David S. doing that amazing standing up solo in Bring on the night/when the world.... and all the improvisation, that I didn´t see in any concert in the BND tour that I went to... ( I didn´t go to any dates in the MF tour because he didn´t come to Mexico).
Well anyway, maybe Kipper is the one to "blame" (I don´t liket to use this word) for this new "technology revolution" in Sting´s music, maybe it is Sting himself, I don´t know. But the only thing that I know is that for my personal point of view, the explosion that was in the "FAB 4" mix in the TST CD and Tour, is the most inspiring influence that Sting and his musicians have done with me.
Sting has amazing musicians with him right now!! I can´t deny that! AMAZING! but I think that sometimes when you unite TOO many good musicians the result is not always that amazing (like having 5 Michael Jordans in one basketball team or 11 Ronaldos in one soccer team)
I think that the chemistry that existed in the Sting-Miller-Sancious-Colaiuta blend, has been the most integrated, strong and inspiring that has existed in Sting´s bands. Some may agree, some not, well, this is just my point of view.
And Mikkel, where can I sign up for that vinne come back campaign?? :-) My TOTAL RESPECT to Manu and to Kipper in the drum section both have great talent!!! Specially Manu´s work with cymbals (hats and splashes) but I think that Vinnie spices a lot much more Sting´s music (studio and Live) in my personal point of view! But lets don´t judge until we see what does the SL Tour have to offer us!! :-)
Take Care!
Javier :-)
At 06:58 AM 9/11/2003 +0200, Mikkel Z. Herold wrote:
Yes, lots of thoughts on Kipper...:
I for one am absolutely delighted that he will NOT be touring with Sting this time around. Although he seems like a great guy, I just don't like what he has done to Sting's music, especially not on stage.
For me, the absolute peak of Sting's career is still the TST tour - those four guys together kicked some serious butt! Besides the obvious fact that they were and are all incredible musicians, what made this line-up so great was their attitude - anything was possible. Listen to live recordings from this tour, and you will often hear small, improvised changes to the songs that made them grow and move constantly. It kept the guys on their toes all the time, and I just didn't feel that on the BND tour - it seemed much more like a preset performance being delivered.
And I think Kipper is partly to blame for this, although in the end, Sting is the one who makes the decisions. But it is harder to improvise in the spur of the moment when the music relies so heavily on drum loops and sequencing. Also, If the rumours are true, it was Sting's fascination with Kipper's drum programming that drove Vinnie away from the BND recording sessions - and THAT is not easy to forgive ;-) !!
Why Sting is so crazy about Kipper, I will never know. I'm fearing that he is developing a "Phil Collins-syndrome" where he starts relying too heavily on all the new possibilities of the modern technology and forgets to just play music! Sure, you can do amazing things with Kipper's equipment, and he definitely knows how to handle it, but you shouldn't use it just because you can - it should be musically warranted (which I have no doubt Sting will say that it is!).
That said, I have higher hopes for the upcoming tour. I have a feeling that Sting, too, missed the TST days on the last tour and that he is trying to bring some of the magic back on stage this time. He is back to his "record as a blueprint" idea, and that is something he almost never mentioned during BND.
So, now all we need is to get Vinnie and Sancious back, and things will start to brighten up ;-). Can't wait to hear Vinnie with Sting again on the BBC Radio 1 show.
Mikkel
-- "And my sanity scans the horizon" Sting - The Wild Wild Sea
---- Original Message ---- From: TaoofKim@aol.com To: police@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:59 AM Subject: [Police] No thoughts on Kipper...
So, not one person had any thoughts on Kipper. Very interesting. Do you think he is the person encouraging Sting to rely more on drum machines? Personally, that is one thing about his new sound that I could do without. KIM
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http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police
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http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police
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My friend, Sting is the smartest man out there, the Sting signature is still in these songs but Sting realized he needs to continue changing and experimenting or else he will fall flat on his face. As for drum programming and sequences, no one used it more than the Police during the Synchronicity tour. "Mikkel Z. Herold" <mikkel@mzh.dk> wrote: Yes, lots of thoughts on Kipper...: I for one am absolutely delighted that he will NOT be touring with Sting this time around. Although he seems like a great guy, I just don't like what he has done to Sting's music, especially not on stage. For me, the absolute peak of Sting's career is still the TST tour - those four guys together kicked some serious butt! Besides the obvious fact that they were and are all incredible musicians, what made this line-up so great was their attitude - anything was possible. Listen to live recordings from this tour, and you will often hear small, improvised changes to the songs that made them grow and move constantly. It kept the guys on their toes all the time, and I just didn't feel that on the BND tour - it seemed much more like a preset performance being delivered. And I think Kipper is partly to blame for this, although in the end, Sting is the one who makes the decisions. But it is harder to improvise in the spur of the moment when the music relies so heavily on drum loops and sequencing. Also, If the rumours are true, it was Sting's fascination with Kipper's drum programming that drove Vinnie away from the BND recording sessions - and THAT is not easy to forgive ;-) !! Why Sting is so crazy about Kipper, I will never know. I'm fearing that he is developing a "Phil Collins-syndrome" where he starts relying too heavily on all the new possibilities of the modern technology and forgets to just play music! Sure, you can do amazing things with Kipper's equipment, and he definitely knows how to handle it, but you shouldn't use it just because you can - it should be musically warranted (which I have no doubt Sting will say that it is!). That said, I have higher hopes for the upcoming tour. I have a feeling that Sting, too, missed the TST days on the last tour and that he is trying to bring some of the magic back on stage this time. He is back to his "record as a blueprint" idea, and that is something he almost never mentioned during BND. So, now all we need is to get Vinnie and Sancious back, and things will start to brighten up ;-). Can't wait to hear Vinnie with Sting again on the BBC Radio 1 show. Mikkel -- "And my sanity scans the horizon" Sting - The Wild Wild Sea http://www.mzh.dk ---- Original Message ---- From: TaoofKim@aol.com To: police@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2003 4:59 AM Subject: [Police] No thoughts on Kipper...
So, not one person had any thoughts on Kipper. Very interesting. Do you think he is the person encouraging Sting to rely more on drum machines? Personally, that is one thing about his new sound that I could do without. KIM
_______________________________________________ Police mailing list Police@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police
Police mailing list Police@mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
I totally agree that Sting needs to be continually changing and evolving - if anything, that has been a defining trace, not only of his solo career but also of The Police. My point was that I didn't like what "the Kipper change" did to Sting's music - but it doesn't mean I would like him to stop evolving! I don't care much for his flirtings with country music, either, but in a way I'm still glad that he does it, simly because that is what I (and most else) have come to expect from him. In an interview, Sting once said something like "my fans are willing to give me enough rope to hang myself", and I think that is very much to the point - part of being a fan of Sting's music is to be a fan of the constant evolution, even if it entails a few "misses" now and then. So, with respect to Kipper's influence, my protest is not that it has changed Sting's music - it is, simply, that I don't like the results of this particular change. And it's not the drum programming and sequencing itself, either, because as you say yourself, The Police used that a lot too. The difference to me is that whereas the stuff The Police did was in many ways refreshing and innovative, Kipper's drum programming just doesn't do it for me - it's too plain, ordinary and, frankly, a bit boring at times. A perfect example is the difference between the studio version and the acoustic version (with only scarce sequencing, if any?) of SYL. So, I'm not an old, grumpy reactionary fuddy-duddy who just wants things to stay the same - and I doubt very many Sting fans are. I keep an open mind to his experimenting, but I reserve the right to dislike some of it - and that, to me, is what being a fan is all about. Mikkel -- "And my sanity scans the horizon" Sting - The Wild Wild Sea http://www.mzh.dk ---- Original Message ---- From: Trini To: Sting-liste Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 4:25 AM Subject: Re: [Police] No thoughts on Kipper...
My friend, Sting is the smartest man out there, the Sting signature is still in these songs but Sting realized he needs to continue changing and experimenting or else he will fall flat on his face.
As for drum programming and sequences, no one used it more than the Police during the Synchronicity tour.
"Mikkel Z. Herold" <mikkel@mzh.dk> wrote: Yes, lots of thoughts on Kipper...:
I for one am absolutely delighted that he will NOT be touring with Sting this time around. Although he seems like a great guy, I just don't like what he has done to Sting's music, especially not on stage.
For me, the absolute peak of Sting's career is still the TST tour - those four guys together kicked some serious butt! Besides the obvious fact that they were and are all incredible musicians, what made this line-up so great was their attitude - anything was possible. Listen to live recordings from this tour, and you will often hear small, improvised changes to the songs that made them grow and move constantly. It kept the guys on their toes all the time, and I just didn't feel that on the BND tour - it seemed much more like a preset performance being delivered.
And I think Kipper is partly to blame for this, although in the end, Sting is the one who makes the decisions. But it is harder to improvise in the spur of the moment when the music relies so heavily on drum loops and sequencing. Also, If the rumours are true, it was Sting's fascination with Kipper's drum programming that drove Vinnie away from the BND recording sessions - and THAT is not easy to forgive ;-) !!
Why Sting is so crazy about Kipper, I will never know. I'm fearing that he is developing a "Phil Collins-syndrome" where he starts relying too heavily on all the new possibilities of the modern technology and forgets to just play music! Sure, you can do amazing things with Kipper's equipment, and he definitely knows how to handle it, but you shouldn't use it just because you can - it should be musically warranted (which I have no doubt Sting will say that it is!).
That said, I have higher hopes for the upcoming tour. I have a feeling that Sting, too, missed the TST days on the last tour and that he is trying to bring some of the magic back on stage this time. He is back to his "record as a blueprint" idea, and that is something he almost never mentioned during BND.
So, now all we need is to get Vinnie and Sancious back, and things will start to brighten up ;-). Can't wait to hear Vinnie with Sting again on the BBC Radio 1 show.
Mikkel
So, not one person had any thoughts on Kipper. Very interesting. Do you think he is the person encouraging Sting to rely more on drum machines? Personally, that is one thing about his new sound that I could do without. KIM
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Hello, here is Giovanni from Milano. Personally I think KIPPER gave Sting a chance to renew his sound, that was becoming less interesting for the general public. Of course I consider a great move by Sting, and not too many great artists as Sting have the courage to share the production with an unknown name. Ciao ciao Giovanni -----Messaggio originale----- Da: police-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:police-bounces@mailman.xmission.com]Per conto di TaoofKim@aol.com Inviato: giovedì 11 settembre 2003 4.59 A: police@mailman.xmission.com Oggetto: [Police] No thoughts on Kipper... So, not one person had any thoughts on Kipper. Very interesting. Do you think he is the person encouraging Sting to rely more on drum machines? Personally, that is one thing about his new sound that I could do without. KIM
Hi All Just saw the recording of Sting on Top Of The Pops and I saw both Kipper and Vinnie performing there with Sting It was a nive performance greetings magda
participants (7)
-
"Javier Macías B." -
foxie -
Giovanni -
magda -
Mikkel Z. Herold -
TaoofKim＠aol.com -
Trini