November 2003 - Police - mailman.xmission.com

Well?
by ShelbysABZ＠aol.com 22 Nov '03

22 Nov '03

A lurker's first post... I'd like to know how/if Jeremy is going to answer the charge about his bootlegging business. And I would like to say that Steve's post has given me a WHOLE LIST of things to ponder over. As much as Jason's retort. Rich's sharing as well. Shel

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Re: Weirdo Whining Bootleggers
by Mr. Absolute Objectivity 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

who the hell made you the voice of reason ANNE?? I think we can pretty much talk about whatever. Get it. Good for you Nigel. Don't let these brown nosers tell you any differently __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now http://companion.yahoo.com/

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RE: [Police] Weirdo Whining Bootleggers
by Anne Robinson 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

We have a sufficient number of pissing contests going on right now let's keep the politics off line please ~Anne "Jason Sheldon" <jason@digital-solutions To: <police(a)mailman.xmission.com> .co.uk> cc: Sent by: Subject: RE: [Police] Weirdo Whining Bootleggers police-bounces(a)mailman.x mission.com 11/21/2003 01:27 PM It might be his real name Maggie.... Spinal Tap's nigel was "Nigel Tufnel" not Tuffman... Besides, even if he said Tufnel, doesn't mean Spinal Tap was the only one... I mean, there are two George Bush's that I know of, and they're both as bad as each other... ;-) J. -----Original Message----- From: police-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com [mailto:police-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Maggie White Sent: 21 November 2003 18:04 To: nigel_tuffman(a)hotmail.com; Police(a)mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Police] Weirdo Whining Bootleggers OK - totally cheap shot, "Nigel." Using a fake name (from "Spinal Tap" if I'm not mistaken) to anonymously criticize people. Get a life. If you feel the need to talk badly about people, do it off list. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you want to share it publicly, at least be man or woman enough to use your own name. Maggie _______________________________________________ Police mailing list Police(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police _______________________________________________ Police mailing list Police(a)mailman.xmission.com http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police

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Re: Police Digest, Vol 9, Issue 24
by Raj Manoharan 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

<Ya. I've never understood why this happens? Wasn't everyone here taught it rude to bring up politics?> <We have a sufficient number of pissing contests going on right now let's keep the politics off line please> What?! How can you discuss Sting without discussing politics? Much of his work over the course of his career has significantly dealt with politics. Some of his best songs are political. This logic ties me up and rapes me. De doo doo doo, de da da da is all I want to say to you. ®@J _________________________________________________________________ online games and music with a high-speed Internet connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average. https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)

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Re: [Police] Weirdo Whining Bootleggers
by Dogstar112＠aol.com 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

In a message dated 11/21/03 1:42:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, sting(a)shaw.ca writes: > Ya. I've never understood why this happens? Wasn't everyone here > taught it rude to bring up politics? > > Egads you're right! Someone better alert Sir Stinglehoffer, STAT! IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIII "Make it easy on yourself and don't do nothing"

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Re: [Police] Weirdo Whining Bootleggers
by Maggie White 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

OK - totally cheap shot, "Nigel." Using a fake name (from "Spinal Tap" if I'm not mistaken) to anonymously criticize people. Get a life. If you feel the need to talk badly about people, do it off list. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if you want to share it publicly, at least be man or woman enough to use your own name. Maggie

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Re: R: [Police] cd prices
by Teri Kronberg 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

>What I can also say is that the price might be too high if you >compare it with the quality of the job done; in the seventies and >in the eighties the records were full of singles and great songs, >in the nineties, you can save just a few.... Yeah, this makes me think about how "Casey Kasem's top 40" has diminished to "top 10". That's pretty sad. I can remember when I use to go to Tower records and just pick up CDs if they sounded interesting. Then, if I didn't like them, I'd put them in a yard sale, trade them, or donate them. Teri ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

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CD prices... they pay my bills!!!
by Steve Agovino 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

I have been keeping fairly quiet on the list as of lately, but this is all too much for me to handle... so I'm using Giovanni's email as the basis for this. First of all, let me start out by posing the following scenario... when you walk into Macy's and see a Ralph Lauren jacket, do you walk out of the store with the jacket in hand without paying? Anyone that tries to justify the illegal download of one, two, or seventeen songs from a P2P server (like Kazaa) has absolutely NO CLUE as to who you are truly hurting. I, like Giovanni and a few other members on this list, make my living in the music industry. My friends know that I busted my ass to get to where I am now, with internships, contacts, interviews - this was a dream of mine since a young age that I never lost sight of, much in the way that many dream of being successful doctors, attorneys, accountants, brokers, etc. after college. I have about an hour and 45 minute commute (door to door) each way EVERY DAY to my office in New York City, spending many a train ride next to the smelly guy or the loud cell phone talking woman, the snoring old man or the drunk day-trippers at the end of the night. On a good day, I might get home in time to catch the Final Jeopardy question. But I usually watch the sun set over the Chrysler Building, as all of my daylight hours are spent in the city. I keep regular contact with many record label and music publishing personnel. I've shared elevators and chatted with artists that the average 15 year old girl would probably die over. And, unlike the artists whose products we produce, promote, license, distribute, and market, we do NOT make a fortune for what we do. We make an average salary, which just like in any other field, should increase modestly over time and/or level of experience or position. Unfortunately, because of the ignorance in society that stealing our product because one "only likes one or two songs" is somehow justified, many jobs have been lost in the past three years. Partly because of a suffering US economy, but moreso the fact that CD sales have been down in the past three years because of rampant infringement. I've talked to friends on a Friday that I've made through work/contacts, only to find their extension and email gone the following Monday. I have met people who have been successful, who are now still receiving unemployment from the state of New York or California because of cutbacks at labels. And to hit home - my company just laid off 25% of our workforce (about 30 people) last week because of this. I was one of the lucky ones who survived. After reading the series of emails about this, let me enlighten those of you who may not know - the recording artist is the LAST one to get paid. Even Sting, despite his superstar status (which dictates the rate of royalty he receives), does not see a penny until the record company (A&M Records) recoups its advances; these advances pay for recording, mixing, and mastering. It pays for independent promoters' fees and for promotional video (i.e. music video) production. For a new artist, it even provides for tour support. Once advances are paid off, the artist will begin to receive his or her royalties. But not before the mechanical licenses are paid for. This is the money paid by record companies to music publishing firms (and, ultimately, to the songwriter) for the right to use a song (copyrighted material) in records manufactured and distributed. As a well-known country songwriter put it at an industry symposium I recently attended: "This is how I make my living." I read all of these replies to Jeremy, Giovanni, et. al., with comments like, "I will give $1 to the artist for the few songs I download," or, "I don't want to spend $18 for one song that I like," and it gets to me... So then, what about the promotions reps who are on the phone for 10 hours a day trying to convince music directors at radio to pick up an artist's latest single that they are working? * (radio, by the way, is out there to sells cars, trips, Trim-Spa, etc., NOT music - music just happens to be the medium to get someone to stay tuned to a station long enough to get the commercials for the above examples. If people know that that hot new song that has been stuck in their heads is coming up, they are more inclined to keep that station on...... but this is a completely different issue, and I don't feel like getting into my personal opinions of ClearChannel at the moment...) What about the artists and photographers involved in photo shoots for the cover art? What about the publicity people that help spread the word about the artist and his/her forthcoming album by coordinating interviews with your favorite magazine or television show? What about the licensing people that make sure that the hot sample that you use in your new song (assuming you are an artist now) has all of the proper licensing deals so you don't get sued years down the road and have to live in a 7 room cardboard box? Or the marketing people that come up with the ideas for the enhanced content, bonus discs, bonus DVDs, etc. that you find nowadays? Or the special "exclusives" found at Target, Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc.? What about the people employed by the recording studios, music publishing companies, record distributors, among other miscellaneous entities? Lastly, what about the A&R people that coordinate all of this?? To those that feel about giving the money straight to the artist neglects the countless number of individuals involved in putting that CD into your hands... and the music into your ears. Furthermore, the money that a record label earns from CD sales does not simply line the pockets of executives - it helps provide the overhead costs for finding and developing new (and existing) talent. Some may argue that the A&R reps out there scouting clubs until 4am every night for new acts are getting second-rate bandss signed to a recording contract... but when the amount of money to invest in this decreases because CD sales have decreased, what do you expect?? They are working with the most that is available to them. If someone cuts your thumb off on your writing hand, you can still write... but your handwriting will not be as distinct as it would be if your thumb were still there... I will not deny the fact that we are seemingly returning to a "singles market," where album sales are driven by one or two hit songs. Yet each completed *album* by an artist is his/her artistic vision come to life. Whether or not one likes the entire contents of an album is personal opinion........... but what would Leonardo da Vinci's "The Last Supper" be if one took Jesus out of the fresco and left the Disciples behind because that was the only aspect about the painting that he/she liked?? (this is the reason why artists such as Metallica refuse to allow digital licensing for their works - they wish to keep the artistic sanctity of their songs as an album, in this respect) Fred mentioned that the Universal Music Group did indeed lower its base price on CD sales. Other labels will soon follow, as there will be competition. But many do not realize that CD prices, like other products, reflect a retail markup. Even I do not shop at music stores that charge SRLP (suggested retail list price, about $18) or above. Best Buy seems to be the best out there - $9.99 (sometimes less) on the day an album is released, $11.99 - $13.99 afterward. Circuit City and Target also seem to have comparable prices. And what about the thrill about going to the music store the day the album comes out... popping it into your CD player for the first time, discovering the other stuff that you haven't heard on radio? If you are still one who does not wish to purchase the entire album, there are better means to acquire a song than through infringement mediums. Many new artists still release domestic singles. Otherwise, more and more legal download sites are appearing each day, whereby those of us on the industry end still get paid. The Apple iTunes Music Store is now available for both PC and Mac - $0.99 for a song is not unreasonable. Think about the amount of money you spend out at a bar on a Friday night. Napster has been relaunched in a similar manner - there is even talk about colleges including Napster subscription fees as part of students' computer fees. And Microsoft has now announced that it is planning its own music service. And yet, with all of this said, there are probably some of you reading this and stealing songs off of Kazaa at the same time. It is the same thing as walking into the music store and pocketing the CD without paying... you are not just stealing the circular piece of plastic contained in the jewelbox, but also the content contained on that piece of plastic. Technology has just given thievery a new twist these days. I really have no pity for anyone being sued and in litigation with the RIAA for copyright infringement of this sort. Anyone who downloads from Kazaa is not just stealing from Sting, or A&M Records...... they are stealing from me. But hey... I am more than happy to forward you on my Mastercard bills or my student loans... Furthermore, I do not come into your houses/apartments and help myself to your Playstation 2 games, food, electronics, clothing, jewelry, etc. I suggest to anyone reading this to visit the following website: http://www.musicunited.org. Read about what your favorite artists *really* think about what you are doing... To conclude, I wish to add the thoughts of what one record company executive said at the symposium I mentioned earlier: "Giving your friend your CD you bought to check out is sharing. One person is sharing... 50 million people?... that's infringement." And this same person also enlightened us on how he has 150,000 screenshots of individual users downloading music from Kazaa........ so don't say you haven't been warned... On that note, I need to get to sleep.... to wake up in 6 hours to go to work... in the music business. I hope parts of this email changed some perspectives out there on CD prices and illegal downloading. Steve >From: "Giovanni" <giovanni.pollastri(a)libero.it> >To: "police list" <police(a)mailman.xmission.com> >Subject: R: [Police] cd prices >Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 01:25:27 +0100 > >Hello everybody, I don't want to start a debate on the price of the cd but >I >would simply tell that working in the music biz for some years (started >working in themusic field in 1989) and seeing how it goes on different >levels of this industry (being an artist as well) I justify the price of >the >cd. >Why don't you ask a lot of artist that says the price is high to low down >their requests??? I can tell you prices on promotion are incredibly high, >and artists of all kind don't usually take care about this....and what >about >contracts? > >What I can also say is that the price might be too high if you compare it >with the quality of the job done; in the seventies and in the eighties the >records were fullof singles and great songs, inthe nineties, you can save >just a few.... > >And don't tell me the price of a cd is high if you compare it to a night >spent out in a disco or just eating somewhere...even eating a simple >pizza.... > >The work behind a record is often hidden but you have to consider how many >people work on it. > >Ciao ciao > Giovanni > >Ps.: I've been working as mainbuyer at Virgin Megastore Italy, as buyer for >different italian chain stores, as musician, as producer, as label >manager.... > > > > >-----Messaggio originale----- >Da: police-bounces(a)mailman.xmission.com >[mailto:police-bounces@mailman.xmission.com]Per conto di Gary Schmitz >Inviato: giovedì 20 novembre 2003 5.48 >A: police list >Oggetto: [Police] cd prices > > > Amaryll hit the nail on the head. The record companies suck. I'd rather >download the album from the net and send the artist a dollar rather than >driving to the record store and spending an hour's labor for the cd, only a >few pennies of which the artist will ever see from the record companies. I >think the biggest reason for music piracy is the fact that cd's cost too >damn much. > > Amaryll said... > >>I remember when CD's were first introduced the record companies said >that as > soon as cd's became mainstream the prices would drop, because it is a >LOT > cheaper to manufacture cd's than the old LP's and cassettes. This never > happened. The prices stayed the same, and even increased in some cases, >with > the record companies pocketing all that extra revenue. I have no >sympathy >at > all for the record companies. > And now, with two of the world's largest record companies, BMG and SONY >, > about to merge, ( that is, if the senate antitrust committee approves >the > merger) we will be all the more at their mercy.<< > > >_______________________________________________ >Police mailing list >Police(a)mailman.xmission.com >http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/police _________________________________________________________________ Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now! http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Re: A list full of whiners??
by Mr. Absolute Objectivity 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

I agree with Brian. Sting will always be the capitalist. Isn't he worth like 400 million? As for jeremy we aren't swimming in money as you are so I wouldn't go calling people whiners > Brian, > I too have to agree with you. I love Sting and have > seen him many many times, however I cannot justify > almost 200 bucks for one ticket! (you figure,the > ticket, the extra charges, parking, a couple drinks, > a little Sting token). Then tack that on top of the > cost of the fan club membership to obtain the > freaken password. PLUS its at the Tower Theatre > here in Philly. And let me tell you the sound is > great there but its a dump. Not only that but you > know we will all be aggrevated by that time in the > tour because the set list will be the same night > after night. I hate to say it and it breaks my > heart to say it but no thanks, I'll wait for my > $14.99 DVD of the concert. > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

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Weirdo Whining Bootleggers
by Nigel Tuffman 21 Nov '03

21 Nov '03

Weirdos ............ those who spend their life Following Sting Around The world & then brown nose the band in hopes of getting back stage Whiners .............weirdos who must be front & center at every show or else they'll cry wah wah Bootleggers.......... the forementioned weirdos who are known to have sold things on ebay such as i shall be released for 200.00 a pop ( tisk tisk ) its all quite comical & entertaining to say the least _________________________________________________________________ Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage now! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es

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