Oh thats good news wicked! They work well together . Hey maybe me and alex should reform for a stadium tour.. That's a great idea .. We could get a new manager with a coke habit And ask him to take all our money And spunk it right up his nose kris ------------------------------------------------------- kdx: blackbanana.dyndns.org mail: thrash@btclick.com -----Original Message----- From: orb-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:orb-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of JC DERRIEN Sent: 01 November 2002 12:34 To: orb@mailman.xmission.com Subject: RE: [Orb] re: LX in Bklyn two nights ago Yeah? wheres jedi nights playing? Is it mark and tom in globabl communication still or has one or the other nicked the name? kris Yeah, it's Mark and Tom back together for one night (they reunited at the Big Chill festival last summer). It's at Rhythm factory, london (Sat 9, November). JCfromParis ------------------------------------------------------- kdx: blackbanana.dyndns.org mail: thrash@btclick.com -----Original Message----- From: orb-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:orb-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Harry Walker Sent: 01 November 2002 11:28 To: orb@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: [Orb] re: LX in Bklyn two nights ago Electronic music outings in the US sound like bollocks. Maybe you should move to England mate- saw Hextatic and Colcut yesterday- pretty blinding, Scanner last Firday and Underworld on Saturday- Jedi Knights/ Global Communication next Saturday etc. etc. etc.

From: "Alan Evil" Reply-To: orb@mailman.xmission.com To: Subject: [Orb] re: LX in Bklyn two nights ago Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 18:38:55 -0500

WARNING WARNING WARNING LENGTHY, SEMI-INCOHERENT DIATRIBE WITH OBSCENITIES!!!

AMK ontrabecki wrote:

"He told me that there wasn't any US fanbase and that LX hardly gets any US press..."

Alan Evil writes:

Fucking morons. There are a quarter of a BILLION people in this country. Hardly any press here still reaches more people than England has in total. I guess they never sold any Orb records in the US. No income whatsoever and no one ever went to any concerts. Sounds to me like a bullshit promoter that didn't do his job. It seemed to me that in New Orleans whenever LX dj-ed there was at least a decent crowd if not a mob but I don't even ONCE remember a promoter coming to the record store I worked in to promote the show. I guess all the people that shopped in the "dance" section wouldn't have noticed a sign announcing the show. That record store was in the French Quarter where LX was spinning and it was the biggest fucking record store in the southern US. I'm so sick of the attitude that there is no audience for electronica in the US. There are more people listening to electronica than bluegrass but somehow there are several bluegrass festivals every fucking weekend somewhere. Promoters are just fucking lazy here. They'd rather promote gangsta rap in the ghetto because there's much less leg work. Promoting LX dj-ing means they'd have to figure out how to notify the millions of people that have an Orb cd on their shelf and they don't have the imagination or sense to know how. Maybe LX should find a new promotional company. When Paul Oakenfold can dj in front of thousands in the desert in the middle of the fucking day and LX can't even get an hour djing at night in NYC you know something's wrong.

It also doesn't help that the tour isn't anounced until after it's started. What the fuck is that? Most of the people that are Orb fans in this country can't take a random day or two off work on short notice. The tour dates were announced when? last week?

Not that it matters to me since none of my favorite acts will play here since the radio stations are owned by the mega-corporations that have no interest on marketing anything any more cutting edge than Creed or Britney Spears. But any promoter that can't draw a crowd in NYC isn't worth a shit. Period.

Institute for Psychic Reform Change your Mind www.psychicreform.com

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Electronic music outings in the US sound like bollocks. Maybe you should move to England mate- >saw Hextatic and Colcut yesterday- pretty blinding, Scanner last Firday and Underworld on >Saturday- Jedi Knights/ Global Communication next Saturday etc. etc. etc.

Really you need to be up north - all the decent techno's up north none of that puffy trance and IDM rubbish you put with down south no lad move north to the home of frantic techno even the clubs sound hard! HAVOK, RIFFRAFF, CABBAGE!!!! nasty noises that what you need - put hairs back on your legs! Mind that rachel sounds alright, might see if we can book her! excuse me while i go and rub meself down with a brillo pad.... bill HU5

Dont you dare apollogise to me! theres nothing wrong with masterbation it sex with someone you really love! you ask me dad! Get yourself to ORBIT and find out what real wankers are... Oh that billy Nasty so soft yet so strong and so very very very long.... Its all about beats you know.... bill HU5

At 01:57 PM 11/1/02 +0000, you wrote:

So wot does the discussion grope think about copyleft

http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/copyleft.html for anyone who wants to read up on it.

Im researching something like that for my label

As copyleft is described on the GNU site it's more like producing something which is put into the public domain, and any subsequent derivative work must also be considered to be in the public domain. It doesn't exactly solve sampling disputes though--under the terms of the copyleft licence on GNU.org, if i write a copylefted song and then say Thrash samples it without asking and puts it on a CD which he sells, then Thrash would be falling foul of the licence. If on the other hand he made another copyleft song then that would be perfectly alright. Then again anyone who puts a song half into PD will probably be pretty amicable about being sampled.

Giving away the music for free and then relying on people liking it and giving money either using micropayments or selling hard copies.. or .. both..

This sounds more like music on a shareware or donationware basis than copyleft. Course something like that is already unofficially underway with file sharing and officially underway with things like radio (except that radio involves all sorts of royalty-related stuff and actual money).

What about micropayments would you pay something like 10p to copy an mp3?

What quality? :) It's not so much the sum that's in question, but a matter of how the money gets distributed. If someone does manage to come up with a widely accepted and well known facility for administering micropayments--maybe something like an e-bank which people can pay money into via credit card or whatever--that'll make things a lot easier. And of course it'll mean there'll be no record company nicking off with a heap of the gross revenue because of distribution/marketing/pressing/Rolls Royce downpayment. The micropayment company will probably be inserting a few administrative charges into the equation tho. Makes me wonder why ISPs themselves can't sort that kind of thing out. More shit to deal with perhaps?

Im not sure how they work yet but it sounds interesting anyone know anything?

Not a clue. I'm into comics as well and in the book "Reinventing Comics", Scott McCloud was talking about using micropayments for people to buy pages of comics online, something like 5c a page or something. Someone pointed out later that it's all very well for Scott to say such stuff because he's already famous.

How would the mcps deal with the micropayment thing I wonder would it go to them first? Do you think it will damage your sales as opposed to the other method? (no free copies)

Free copies may as well be seen to be a good thing. Some of my commercially released music is floating around free on Soulseek right now and when i told the label owner, he said it was free publicity. Pity the cunts who pirated the CD in the first place fucked up the name of the album when they 'released' it. It's more likely to hurt sales if you don't market and promote properly, but that's a given. It's also more likely to hurt sales if you release shit music too, but in countries like Australia where they let you listen to the CD first (heard this isn't the case in the US) there's already protection against such things.

I like the way copyleft lets others copy and sample at will that s good..

That's potentially the best bit, yeh. All the sample fodder. Kwook www.kwookyworld.com Herewhere is rain. Herewhere is cold.

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey Kris, I use and write mostly Free software (FS) (free as in libre, not necessarily as in beer). Richard Stallman has a new book out actually, a collection of essays. I flipped through some of the manuscripts before it was published (my friend was the editor) but I haven't read a final copy yet. Its mostly about software of course, but the book is not intended for programmers per-se. I think a German group has extended the GPL idea to cover music and things like that but can't find the link. Here is an interesting one though: Copyright for Collage Artists (http://www.funnystrange.com/copyright/index.html). There are also some good copyright-sample-collage-appropriation-etc resources over at detritus.net. If you're thinking about extending the GPL into areas of music and art, maybe the Free Documentation License, a GPL variant for text, might be a good place to start. I'll see if I can find more previous work on this as well. On Friday, November 1, 2002, at 08:57 AM, nibiru wrote:

Giving away the music for free and then relying on people liking it and giving money eitherusing micropayments or selling hard copies.. or .. both.. What about micropayments would you pay something like 10p to copy an mp3? Imnot sure how they work yet but it sounds interesting anyone know anything?

That sounds closer to classic "Shareware", but a couple of FS projects get some cash from donations like that. The "Free" of GPL and things like that is a freedom to re-use, copy, re-distribute and modify, not of price. Most FS is given away for no charge, but that is not required by the license: you just have to make the source code available and maintain the freedoms of copying and modification. So you could sell CDs, but give the people who buy them the right to copy, redistribute and remix providing they were not plagarizing, and that they offered the same freedom to their listeners/recipients... I guess in music there isn't a direct analog to source code, except maybe a library of samples and patches and things that you used to make the song, which could be distributed. reed -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.7 (Darwin) iD8DBQE9wrHnFK83gN8ItOQRAgqkAKCF22dzXQ+WXlJpr24JVhkdfsx9kgCfQoMc 5rG1UYLtfCKRmP4cUhse7ZA= =HJL7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

I will check re the HAVOK thing but i had it in mind that they were supposed to be going head to head against RIFRAF at cabbage this weekend the 8th. mind i could be lying....(?) bill HU5 __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Everything you'll ever need on one web page from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts http://uk.my.yahoo.com

On Wed, Nov 06, 2002 at 02:51:19PM -0000, themode2k wrote:

sorry chum my mistaske the do for this Friday is at the windy cent line up is:

Friday 8th November The West Indian Centre (Leeds) Glowbones Selkirk Spunkyjunk Skint Boy Plus guests tbc.

Out of the lot i would go a long way (and have) to see selkirk.

And I've dug out the email from Mick Beatle announcing the final Havok, for those who might be interested ... [snip] It will be a very sad night for me and I would like to thank absolutely every one of you who has taken the time and the chemicals to come to one of our many events over the last seven years. I would also like to thank everybody who has played for us in the past. You have all helped give me seven of the best years of my life. It will be like having an arm removed not having Havok once a month, but as my diary shows I am more active as a DJ now than ever and I cannot dedicate the time to running it properly, as it deserves. I will now be taking up residency at the hottest techno club in Leeds, Euphonic at The Think Tank. Havok Records is still going strong with Havok 24 (Dirty Blonde & DAVE The Drummer) released in October. [snip] -- "It is practically impossible to teach good programming to students that have had a prior exposure to BASIC: as potential programmers they are mentally mutilated beyond hope of regeneration." - Edsger Dijkstra