<< I'm on digest, so I don't know if this has been answered, but your presumptions on both halves of the equation are wrong, and as a result, and your math is way off. >> nope, you're the first! << Actually, there is 1 piece of info in a bit. You are thinking of a byte, which contains 8 bits. >> dammit, you're right! i always get those two confused. what moron thought of using 2 words so close in sound like that.... << 192kbps works out to 192 x 1024 x 2 (don't forget stereo!) = 393,216 bits per second. A CD is encoded 44,100 samples per second x 16 bits per sample x 2 channels = 1,411,200 bits per second, or more than 3.5x more information than a 192kbps MP3. >> okay, fair enough. << Even if you forget about the math, your entire premise is illogical. You are arguing that if you rip a 192kbps MP3, you would end up with more information than you started with on the CD, but it would take up less space. That makes no sense. >> it is possible to cram more information into a smaller space with a compression algorithm. remember -- all of this info, be it CD or MP3, is just a set of 1s and 0s. a compression algorithm takes the information, find patterns, and makes a few equations to recreate the sequence of 1s and 0s without actually having to list them all. so: since an MP3 is compressed and a wav file (CD audio) isn't -- you cannot look at a file size and tell how much information is in each. << It is well known that MP3 is a lossy algorithm. In order to get the compression, you have to lose data. >> and i contend that no human being can tell, on a high end MP3. << I can absolutely tell the difference between vinyl and CD >> because you have different playback devices. you are comparing apples to oranges and saying, "This apple is the better orange." << and I can absolutely tell the difference between a CD and a 192kbps rip of the same music, in a clean environment. >> ah, there's the rub: clean environment would mean comparable playback equipment. maybe i just need to buy a better MP3 player, then i can hear the limitations? << However, in my car, or walking around with headphones, where there's lots of ambient noise to overcome, it doesn't matter much, which is why they're so great for portability >> right. in fact, in my life, there is almost never ambient noise. i dunno about you though... PJK please don't hate me because i can't type..... --- All the cool kids are doing it: HTTP://www.EvilSponge.org