Bob- what do you intend to do about Sal's 23? You may look at this as none of my business, but you're harming my good name and that matters to me. This is far from the first time I have been contacted by your buyers who have similar problems, and until now I've tried to stay out of things, explaining that I have nothing to do with you or your business and offering sympathy and suggestions but nothing else. I know that I've heard only one side of the story, but if you indeed stopped work on Sal's boat two years ago when it was paid off I think that's inexcusable and sorry, but I think it's time the whole world knew about it. If you have a good reason for this behavior, let's hear it. Please send any response to the list to keep it in the open, and if you send the response to me only, you can expect me to forward it to the list at my option. jerry
Thanx Jerry, I appreciate your input. sal -----Original Message----- From: jerry <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Tue, 12 May 2009 5:53 pm Subject: M_Boats: open letter to Bob Eeg Bob- what do you intend to do about Sal's 23? You may look at this as none of my business, but you're harming my good name and that matters to me. This is far from the first time I have been contacted by your buyers who have similar problems, and until now I've tried to stay out of things, explaining that I have nothing to do with you or your business and offering sympathy and suggestions but nothing else. I know that I've heard only one side of the story, but if you indeed stopped work on Sal's boat two years ago when it was paid off I think that's inexcusable and sorry, but I think it's time the whole world knew about it. If you have a good reason for this behavior, let's hear it. Please send any response to the list to keep it in the open, and if you send the response to me only, you can expect me to forward it to the list at my option. jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Bob's response is quite lengthy and seems to be taking some time to propagate through the list server. It does appear in the archives and can be read at http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/private/montgomery_boats/2009-Ma.... Everyone has now had their say. It's time for the involved parties to take the discussion off of the list and resolve things privately. Keith Diehl - your friendly list operator
Jerry....All it takes is money. Sal ran out of money early on. Lets look at the Timeline. Today's M_23 is $78,000 without the trailer. As you might know, materials have doubled especially resins, sails, stainles steel, teak, rigging, aluminum, labor and daily overhead. I wish you had the balls to call me about this. However we can look at the timeline for this particular boat if you insist. FYI Sal's boat is almost complete; mast/boom/engine/interior/electrical/caprails/hatches/bowsprit/maststep/ etc are all at hand. Business demands that people make timely payments. What would you do? Here: TIMELINE Date Action Amount Paid Amount Due September 5, 2004 Start Boat $11,000 October 2004 Work Continues 0 November 17, 2004 Work Continues $11,000 December 2004 Work Continues 0 January 2005 Work Continues 0 February 5, 2004 Work Continues $8,000 Underpayment March 2005 Work Continues 0 April 17, 2005 Work Continues $10,000 Underpayment May 2005 Work Continues (Lacking parts) 0 June 23, 2005 Work Continues (Lacking parts) $5,000 Severe Underpayment July 2005 Work stopped-no money 0 August 2005 Work stopped-Lay off one employee- No money. September 2005 No money- Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 October 2005 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 November 2005 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 December 2005 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 January 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 February 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 March 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 April 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 May 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 June 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 July 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 Date Action Amount Paid Amount Due August 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 More than one year since payment. No profit possible. Project is dead. Liquidated damages/overhead/materials/labor exceeding cost. What are fair late fees? Service charges? Storage is taking up Valuable shop space. September 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 October 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 November 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 A personal check for $10,000 arrives. Bank of America refuses check After calling bank in Colorado. Check not used. 0 December 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 January 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 February 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 March 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 April 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 May 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 June 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 July 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 August 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 Now more than 26 months without Payment. September 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 September 21, 2007 Wire Transfer of $20,000 after 27 months of non- Payment. $20,000 credit Total October 2007 Total Storage due $9500 Date Action Amount Paid Amount Due October 2007 We start work after receiving a Partial Payment of $20,000. Storage balance……………………………………………………………………..$9500 M_23 Cost……Oct 2007 pricing………………………………………… ……..$75,000 Total due as of October 2007………………………………………………….....$84,500 Amount Paid as of October 2007……………………………………………… -$65,000 Balance in Arrears……………………………………………………………… $19,500 Late fees to be determined November 2007 We continue work 0 $19,500 December 2007 We continue work 0 $19,500 January 2008 We continue work 0 $19,500 February 2008 Parts/Mast/Boom arrives 0 $19,500 March 2008 More work and parts 0 still $19,500 April 2008 Money low. Work spotty 0 still $19,500 May 2008 Work when time allows 0 still $19,500 We are now down to 2 employees. We work on paying projects to pay the overhead and the payroll every week. Every once in a while we work on the M_23. Still no money is forthcoming from the customer. Starting and stopping this project over the years prevents us from ever making a profit or breaking even. Material costs have sky-rocketed. Labor and overhead increases every year. Recession. 17 months have passed since the last payment from customer. Not enough money to finish the boat in a timely manner. Another year and a half wasted. The total number of late months is 43. Notice no late charges or additional interest or service charges have been attached. Also notice no additional storage fees (the boat takes up one of only three large boat spots) have beed added the last 12 months. Bob
From: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:53:44 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: open letter to Bob Eeg
Bob- what do you intend to do about Sal's 23? You may look at this as none of my business, but you're harming my good name and that matters to me. This is far from the first time I have been contacted by your buyers who have similar problems, and until now I've tried to stay out of things, explaining that I have nothing to do with you or your business and offering sympathy and suggestions but nothing else.
I know that I've heard only one side of the story, but if you indeed stopped work on Sal's boat two years ago when it was paid off I think that's inexcusable and sorry, but I think it's time the whole world knew about it. If you have a good reason for this behavior, let's hear it. Please send any response to the list to keep it in the open, and if you send the response to me only, you can expect me to forward it to the list at my option.
jerry
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
That's not true Bob. I paid you what you asked for including an extra $10K and I paid you off in '07. You thanked me for the money and you told me in SEP of '07 that you would have my boat finished by DEC of '07. Would you like for me to publish your email? I'd be happy to post the timeline publicly. Check by check, including wire transfers. You sat on a $10K check for a year telling me in repeated telephone calls that your bank wouldn't cash large out of state checks. The check was good. My bank would not refuse one of my checks. Every time we called you, which we did regularly, you always said that you were working on the boat and it would be done soon.. I'm in Ontario now. I was at your shop today. You would have had us drive down to pick up the boat that you again promised to deliver on May 20. You would have had us drive down to pick up a boat that you knew wasn't touched. You haven't touched my boat in years. No interior, no rudder, no mast, The deck is not even fastened, who are you trying to kid? What's wrong with you? All we tried to do was buy a boat. How dare you do this to your customers. How dare you do this to Jerry Montgomery's good name. How dare you! "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." (Edmund Burke) Sorry about the rant. We'll take it private.=2 0 I had hoped to get my boat and be a regular Montgomery contributor. If I had to do over again, I wish I would have bought a used boat. Dealing with Bob has been a very negative experience for us. If anyone wants to share info or disuss this, please email me. sal -----Original Message----- From: Bob From California <ocean37@hotmail.com> To: Monty Listserver <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tue, 12 May 2009 6:58 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: open letter to Bob Eeg Jerry....All it takes is money. Sal ran out of money early on. Lets look at the Timeline. Today's M_23 is $78,000 without the trailer. As you might know, materials have doubled especially resins, sails, stainles steel, teak, rigging, aluminum, labor and daily overhead. I wish you had the balls to call me about this. However we can look at the timeline for this particular boat if you insist. FYI Sal's boat is almost complete; mast/boom/engine/interior/electrical/caprails/hatches/bowsprit/maststep/ etc are all at hand. Business demands that people make timely payments. What would you do? Here: TIMELINE Date Action Amount Paid Amount Due September 5, 2004 Start Boat $11,000 October 2004 Work Continues 0 November 17, 2004 Work Continues $11,000 December 2004 Work Continues 0 January 2005 Work Continues 0 February 5, 2004 Work Continues $8,000 Underpayment March 2005 Work Continues 0 April 17, 2005 Work Continues $10,000 Underpayment May 2005 Work Continues (Lacking parts) 0 June 23, 2005 Work Continues (Lacking parts) $5,000 Severe Underpayment July 20 05 Work stopped-no money 0 August 2005 Work stopped-Lay off one employee- No money. September 2005 No money- Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 October 2005 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 November 2005 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 December 2005 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 January 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 February 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 March 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 April 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 May 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 June 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 July 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 Date Action Amount Paid Amount Due August 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 More than one year since payment. No profit possible. Project is dead. Liquidated damages/overhead/materials/labor exceeding cost. What are fair late fees? Service charges? Storage is taking up Valuable shop space. September 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 October 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 November 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 A personal check for $10,000 arrives. Bank of America refuses check After calling bank in Colorado. Check not used. 0 December 2006 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 January 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 February 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 March 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 April 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 20 $380 May 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 June 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 July 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 August 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 Now more than 26 months without Payment. September 2007 No money-Storage Fee in shop 0 $380 September 21, 2007 Wire Transfer of $20,000 after 27 months of non- Payment. $20,000 credit Total October 2007 Total Storage d ue $9500 Date Action Amount Paid Amount Due October 2007 We start work after receiving a Partial Payment of $20,000. Storage balance……………………………………………………………………..$9500 M_23 Cost……Oct 2007 pricing………………………………………… ……..$75,000 Total due as of October 2007………………………………………………….....$84,500 Amount Paid as of October 2007……………………………………………… -$65,000 Balance in Arrears……………………………………………………………… $19,500 Late fees to be determined November 2007 We continue work 0 $19,500 December 2007 We continue work 0 $19,500 January 2008 We continue work 0 $19,500 February 2008 Parts/Mast/Boom arrives 0 $19,500 March 2008 More work and parts 0 still $19,500 April 2008 Money low. Work spotty 0 still $19,500 May 2008 Work when time allows 0 still $19,500 We are now down to 2 employees. We work on paying projects to pay the overhead and the payroll every week. Every once in a while we work on the M_23. Still no money is forthcoming from the customer. Starting and stopping this project over the years prevents=0 D us from ever making a profit or breaking even. Material costs have sky-rocketed. Labor and overhead increases every year. Recession. 17 months have passed since the last payment from customer. Not enough money to finish the boat in a timely manner. Another year and a half wasted. The total number of late months is 43. Notice no late charges or additional interest or service charges have been attached. Also notice no additional storage fees (the boat takes up one of only three large boat spots) have beed added the last 12 months. Bob
From: jerry@jerrymontgomery.org To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 16:53:44 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: open letter to Bob Eeg
Bob- what do you intend to do about Sal's 23? You may look at this as none of my business, but you're harming my good name and that matters to me. This is far from the first time I have been contacted by your buyers who have similar problems, and until now I've tried to stay out of things, explaining that I have nothing to do with you or your business and offering sympathy and suggestions but nothing else.
I know that I've heard only one side of the story, but if you indeed stopped work on Sal's boat two years ago when it was paid off I think that's inexcusable and sorry, but I think it's time the whole world k new about it. If you have a good reason for this behavior, let's hear it. Please send any response to the list to keep it in the open, and if you send the response to me only, you can expect me to forward it to the list at my option.
jerry
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
I wish to explain my point of view for insisting that further discussion on this topic is not appropriate for the mailing list. Each party has explained what they feel is their side of the situation. Beyond that, it becomes nothing more than an argument on the internet. We, as bystanders and observers, cannot determine the truth of the matter. We can only listen to postings that surely will become less and less civil. I am not suggesting litigation is appropriate here, but when parties cannot reach understanding then juries, not internet mailing lists, should be arbiters of fact. I believe that anyone buying anything that costs what a new boat does should seriously consider retaining an attorney to help draw up a contract with terms and schedules both buyer and seller can agree to. It would be money well spent and situations like this might be avoided if the obligations and responsibilities of both parties were clearly understood by all. Keith Diehl
participants (4)
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Bob From California -
jerry -
Keith Diehl -
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