Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it. Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77
Tom, How do you attach the snap shackle to the forestay, and how do you compensate for the added forestay length? Do you replace the turnbuckle with the snap shackle? Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it.
Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77
Hi Rick, I found that I had enough takeup with the turnbuckle to allow for the added length. If necessary a shorter turnbuckle can be incorporated. Or, better, if necessary you can remove the end of the turnbuckle completely and use the becket/clevis pin assembly on the end of the snap shackle to attach the body of the turnbuckle directly to the stem head shackle via the snap shackle itself. The 1/4 inch clevis pin in the snapshackle becket will fit inside the body of the turnbuckle where the threaded part of the turnbuckle end used to be. All the loading on the turnbuckle will be exactly the same as stock. That will allow you to add or subtract forestay tension using the remaining trunbuckle screw. The swiveling becket end of the snap shackle will prevent twisting of the forestay cable as it too rotates. That should allow plenty of length to play with. And all the parts involved will always be attached to the boat within easy reach. Just found an email website that has great prices for these 3-4 inch snap shackles with swivel beckets on the end opposite the snap opening. http://computerpiks.com/snap-shackles.html..........that site should get you there. The prices are really good. I know also that Harken makes one such item, their #885 large snap shackle with clevis is exactly what I have on my boat. I have used this setup for years on my first M17 and it never opened prematurely. I also never tried to remove the skin from the end of one of my fingers when I got it caught in a loop of safety wire attached to a removeable pin again either. Have fun and enjoy. Tom B, Mont.17 #258,'77 On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
How do you attach the snap shackle to the forestay, and how do you compensate for the added forestay length?
Do you replace the turnbuckle with the snap shackle?
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it.
Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77
Ever try to buy a shorter turnbuckle? I looked in several chandleries plus regular hardware stores (Ace, True Value etc) and could not find a shorter turnbuckle, so when I found the snap shackle at a chandlery in Portland, Oregon, 105 miles on I-5 from my boat, I bought, and now I use it. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 10:18 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fwd: Forestay attachment
Hi Rick, I found that I had enough takeup with the turnbuckle to allow for the added length. If necessary a shorter turnbuckle can be incorporated. Or, better, if necessary you can remove the end of the turnbuckle completely and use the becket/clevis pin assembly on the end of the snap shackle to attach the body of the turnbuckle directly to the stem head shackle via the snap shackle itself. The 1/4 inch clevis pin in the snapshackle becket will fit inside the body of the turnbuckle where the threaded part of the turnbuckle end used to be. All the loading on the turnbuckle will be exactly the same as stock. That will allow you to add or subtract forestay tension using the remaining trunbuckle screw. The swiveling becket end of the snap shackle will prevent twisting of the forestay cable as it too rotates. That should allow plenty of length to play with. And all the parts involved will always be attached to the boat within easy reach. Just found an email website that has great prices for these 3-4 inch snap shackles with swivel beckets on the end opposite the snap opening. http://computerpiks.com/snap-shackles.html..........that site should get you there. The prices are really good. I know also that Harken makes one such item, their #885 large snap shackle with clevis is exactly what I have on my boat. I have used this setup for years on my first M17 and it never opened prematurely. I also never tried to remove the skin from the end of one of my fingers when I got it caught in a loop of safety wire attached to a removeable pin again either.
Have fun and enjoy. Tom B, Mont.17 #258,'77
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
How do you attach the snap shackle to the forestay, and how do you compensate for the added forestay length?
Do you replace the turnbuckle with the snap shackle?
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it.
Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8154 - Release Date: 09/04/14
When I had my M-15 I had a spare SSteel turnbuckle of an appropriate size. To shorten it (this happens when you are cheap) I pulled out the left hand threaded eye with the rthand threads and tossed that part. The remaining right hand thread with body was just the right length. That is the way I sold it. This will not be accepted as nautical rigging but the turnbuckle body seemed stout enough to do that....just my 2 cents.......Larry (without the M-15 1981 vintage). -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of stevetrapp Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 12:12 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Fwd: Forestay attachment Ever try to buy a shorter turnbuckle? I looked in several chandleries plus regular hardware stores (Ace, True Value etc) and could not find a shorter turnbuckle, so when I found the snap shackle at a chandlery in Portland, Oregon, 105 miles on I-5 from my boat, I bought, and now I use it. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 10:18 AM Subject: M_Boats: Fwd: Forestay attachment
Hi Rick, I found that I had enough takeup with the turnbuckle to allow for the added length. If necessary a shorter turnbuckle can be incorporated. Or, better, if necessary you can remove the end of the turnbuckle completely and use the becket/clevis pin assembly on the end of the snap shackle to attach the body of the turnbuckle directly to the stem head shackle via the snap shackle itself. The 1/4 inch clevis pin in the snapshackle becket will fit inside the body of the turnbuckle where the threaded part of the turnbuckle end used to be. All the loading on the turnbuckle will be exactly the same as stock. That will allow you to add or subtract forestay tension using the remaining trunbuckle screw. The swiveling becket end of the snap shackle will prevent twisting of the forestay cable as it too rotates. That should allow plenty of length to play with. And all the parts involved will always be attached to the boat within easy reach. Just found an email website that has great prices for these 3-4 inch snap shackles with swivel beckets on the end opposite the snap opening. http://computerpiks.com/snap-shackles.html..........that site should get you there. The prices are really good. I know also that Harken makes one such item, their #885 large snap shackle with clevis is exactly what I have on my boat. I have used this setup for years on my first M17 and it never opened prematurely. I also never tried to remove the skin from the end of one of my fingers when I got it caught in a loop of safety wire attached to a removeable pin again either.
Have fun and enjoy. Tom B, Mont.17 #258,'77
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 9:25 AM, Rick Davies <jdavies104@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
How do you attach the snap shackle to the forestay, and how do you compensate for the added forestay length?
Do you replace the turnbuckle with the snap shackle?
Rick M17 #633 Lynne L
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it.
Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8154 - Release Date: 09/04/14
one trick is to use for jib halyard as a temporary forestay. not all of Jerry's boat have this, but most do have on the portside cabin top cheek blocks and winch for jib halyard to be lead to the cockpit. attach the jib halyard snap shackle (ie, end used at the head of the jib) to the jib tack shackle at the bow plate. once you have pushed the mast up tension the jib halyard with a good pull. if needed apply just a bit more tension using a winch handle. now the mast if 'forward' a bit and you can easily attach the forestay. the jib halyard can also be used to control the mast when lowering. on my M17 i always loosen the backstay so it is way slack (i have taped the threads of the turnbuckle so i know how much to turn the turnbuckle after raising the rig so the shrouds, forestay and backstay are all correctly tuned). the shrouds on SWEET PEA are _just_ at bit looser than most folks run so i can get the mast up without needing to slack the shrouds to get the mast up. i use 'velcro wrap pins' to easily re-cotter-key the backstay turnbuckle. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it.
Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77
Look at this: http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/00031.htm Similar to quick release shackle used on Com-Pac Mastender System. Attach loose forestay, swing down shackle to tighten, insert pin to secure! Easy peasy! I've ordered three for shrouds as well. Easy rigging tuning. Mike Graf M-15. #605 Sent from my iPad On Sep 4, 2014, at 9:29 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
one trick is to use for jib halyard as a temporary forestay.
not all of Jerry's boat have this, but most do have on the portside cabin top cheek blocks and winch for jib halyard to be lead to the cockpit.
attach the jib halyard snap shackle (ie, end used at the head of the jib) to the jib tack shackle at the bow plate. once you have pushed the mast up tension the jib halyard with a good pull. if needed apply just a bit more tension using a winch handle. now the mast if 'forward' a bit and you can easily attach the forestay. the jib halyard can also be used to control the mast when lowering.
on my M17 i always loosen the backstay so it is way slack (i have taped the threads of the turnbuckle so i know how much to turn the turnbuckle after raising the rig so the shrouds, forestay and backstay are all correctly tuned). the shrouds on SWEET PEA are _just_ at bit looser than most folks run so i can get the mast up without needing to slack the shrouds to get the mast up.
i use 'velcro wrap pins' to easily re-cotter-key the backstay turnbuckle.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 8:09 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it.
Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77
i asked Jerry about the working load considerations for the M15 and M17 standing rigs. he wrote - "1/8" 1X19 wire has a breaking strength of about 2800 lbs for 316, about 2100 for the cheep stuff. The RTB should be at least this strong, and a good one with 1//4" stainless ends probably is. "The Garhauer adjusters that I used on the M-15 are probably not that strong (altho they might be), but the 1/8" wire has a HUGE safety factor. I doubt that the loads on a 15 are ever as much as 1000 lbs. That's a safety factor of almost 300%. MacGregor uses 1/8 wire on his 26, and I doubt if it's 316. "I believe you're talking about Hyfield levers? I'd guess that 500 is plenty for a 15 with it's 3/4 rig; iffy on a 17, either Sage or Montgomery." -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Mike Graf <grafsriverhouse@me.com> wrote:
Look at this:
http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/00031.htm
Similar to quick release shackle used on Com-Pac Mastender System.
Attach loose forestay, swing down shackle to tighten, insert pin to secure! Easy peasy!
I've ordered three for shrouds as well. Easy rigging tuning.
Mike Graf M-15. #605 Sent from my iPad
Thomas, Is that Rockport, Maine, near the WoodenBoat Center on Penobscot Bay? Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 7:09 AM Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment
Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it.
Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8149 - Release Date: 09/03/14
Ha, I wish. No, I am Waaaaay down South in Rockport, Tx. We are going to have a plywood wooden boat weekend here though in September complete with lectures, demonstrations and lots of plywood boats to see. Was just last week in Port Townsend, Wa. Now there too is a place for the sailing enthusiast! Fair winds, Tom B On Thu, Sep 4, 2014 at 10:38 AM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Thomas, Is that Rockport, Maine, near the WoodenBoat Center on Penobscot Bay? Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman. xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2014 7:09 AM Subject: M_Boats: Forestay attachment
Clevis pins, spring pins, etc. I started with pins of one sort of another
and found that trying to hold tension on the forestay while trying to align the tiny holes for the pin to slide through the stemhead fitting as well as the ends of the turnbuckle was an exercise is frustration highlighted with the possibility of allowing the forestay to slip out of my hand altogether ending my sailing day with a mast bent double over the transom or the pin falling on the ground out of my reach unless I lowered the mast to retrieve it or that fatal "sploop" sound as it deep sixed itself. etc. etc. etc. What to do, what to do???? Stay home and drink pins coladas? No, find a way to make it so easy and fool proof and safe so that not even sitting on my patio with said pina colada would deter me from a day on the water. So....my placing a shackle through the holes on the stem head fitting I created a LARGE target to hit with whatever I was aiming with. Then I attached a three inch snap shackle to the end of the forestay. Voila! Now I had one hand for the forestay and ONE HAND to slip the pelican hook type end of the snap shackle through the large target shackle on the stem head fitting. My closing the snap shackle by simply squeezing it together I also tensioned the rig. The only thing easier is falling off the proverbial log, unless you prefer falling off the bow of your boat trying to align pins with holes while juggling a dancing forestay. Try it, you will like it.
Sailing in Rockport, Tom B, Mont 17 #258, '77
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8149 - Release Date: 09/03/14
participants (6)
-
Dave Scobie -
Hughston, Larry＠DGS -
Mike Graf -
Rick Davies -
stevetrapp -
Thomas Buzzi