Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH.
3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a 150 or big drifter. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Thanks once more Jerry. RTH. -----Original Message----- From: jerry Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:40 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation 3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a 150 or big drifter. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Well, Jerry, how high up on a 17, If I might ask? Maybe the 6-12 pole would be more appropriate, but I don't have the mast up to see if the longer pole is necessary. Thanks, Tom Jenkins On Jul 7, 2011, at 10:40 AM, jerry wrote:
3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a 150 or big drifter.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Hmmm, when I mounted the eye for our pole last week on our '03 M17, with the pole level for the genoa, the eye was just around the mast cleats, maybe a bit lower. And that is below the boom on our boat. I would estimate 18" max from the cabin top. Might be 3' from the deck. Going to the boat tonight for 3 days. I can take some pics and email to you Tom. Pole should extend as long as the foot of the sail, which for the 130 Genoa is more than the J measurement. So it is more than 6', and with the 6-12, you have a pretty good overlap of the sections. Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622 On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Well, Jerry, how high up on a 17, If I might ask? Maybe the 6-12 pole would be more appropriate, but I don't have the mast up to see if the longer pole is necessary.
Thanks, Tom Jenkins
On Jul 7, 2011, at 10:40 AM, jerry wrote:
3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a
150 or big drifter.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.**xmission.com<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should
be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. ______________________________**_________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/** montgomery_boats<http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats>
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Tom, FYI, no pics of the whisker pole eye, but did measure it. 22" above cabin top. This gives a pretty well level pole for both working jib and genoa. One was 23 1/2 and one was 20 1/2 so we split the difference when installing the eye, instead of buying 2. Could see that mounting at 36" as Jerry suggests would help keep the clew down. We use the lazy sheet as a foreguy, so the pole does not ride up. On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Hmmm, when I mounted the eye for our pole last week on our '03 M17, with the pole level for the genoa, the eye was just around the mast cleats, maybe a bit lower. And that is below the boom on our boat. I would estimate 18" max from the cabin top. Might be 3' from the deck. Going to the boat tonight for 3 days. I can take some pics and email to you Tom.
Pole should extend as long as the foot of the sail, which for the 130 Genoa is more than the J measurement. So it is more than 6', and with the 6-12, you have a pretty good overlap of the sections.
Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 3:03 PM, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote:
Well, Jerry, how high up on a 17, If I might ask? Maybe the 6-12 pole would be more appropriate, but I don't have the mast up to see if the longer pole is necessary.
Thanks, Tom Jenkins
On Jul 7, 2011, at 10:40 AM, jerry wrote:
3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a
150 or big drifter.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.**xmission.com<montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should
be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. ______________________________**_________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/**cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/** montgomery_boats<http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats>
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3' is a good do-more measurement on most boats. Best is to mount the ring on a track with the middle about 3'. This is actually a measurement for a spinnaker ring, but I've never had a problem with it for a whisker pole, and ikf you cdan move the mast end of the pole up or down you can control the twist to a certain extent.. A 4X 8 pole should work for a 17; that's what I have for my Sage but I really can't remember using it. On spinnakers, most racing rules (PHRF, etc) restrict a spinnnaker to 180% of the J, and the pole to no longer than the J. A lot of small trailerables that aren't concerned with no stupid rules will reach better with a 200% chute, and they will be better in a drifter period. The big deal about keeping the spinnaker pole level is simply so that it will project out further, keeping the slot between the main and the chute more opener. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jenkins" <tjenk@gte.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 12:03 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Well, Jerry, how high up on a 17, If I might ask? Maybe the 6-12 pole would be more appropriate, but I don't have the mast up to see if the longer pole is necessary.
Thanks, Tom Jenkins
On Jul 7, 2011, at 10:40 AM, jerry wrote:
3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a 150 or big drifter.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Along these lines, what is the purpose of the sheet winch on top of the cabin? I've always assumed it was "chute" related, but wasn't sure. I've only used it for adjusting the tack on an asymmetrical spinnaker and will also wrap the topping lift around it, but isn't needed for that. On Jul 7, 2011, at 2:35 PM, jerry wrote:
3' is a good do-more measurement on most boats. Best is to mount the ring on a track with the middle about 3'. This is actually a measurement for a spinnaker ring, but I've never had a problem with it for a whisker pole, and ikf you cdan move the mast end of the pole up or down you can control the twist to a certain extent.. A 4X 8 pole should work for a 17; that's what I have for my Sage but I really can't remember using it.
On spinnakers, most racing rules (PHRF, etc) restrict a spinnnaker to 180% of the J, and the pole to no longer than the J. A lot of small trailerables that aren't concerned with no stupid rules will reach better with a 200% chute, and they will be better in a drifter period. The big deal about keeping the spinnaker pole level is simply so that it will project out further, keeping the slot between the main and the chute more opener.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jenkins" <tjenk@gte.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 12:03 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Well, Jerry, how high up on a 17, If I might ask? Maybe the 6-12 pole would be more appropriate, but I don't have the mast up to see if the longer pole is necessary.
Thanks, Tom Jenkins
On Jul 7, 2011, at 10:40 AM, jerry wrote:
3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a 150 or big drifter.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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By sheet winches on top of the house, you mean like you would do on a M-15 (if you wanted winches) or a Santana 20, or the new Sage? The value is that you can winch in after a tack from the weather side instead of having to get your weight off to leeward. On a boat that has the jib sheeted inside of the shrouds (on the house top) it's a no-brainer to put the winches (also the wenches) on the cabin top, even tho it moves the weight a bit higher it's worth it. Cabintop winches would also work for a spinnaker but you would need to have clamps for the sheets so you could release them after the chute is up; also the halyards. Is this what you were asking? jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 12:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Along these lines, what is the purpose of the sheet winch on top of the cabin? I've always assumed it was "chute" related, but wasn't sure. I've only used it for adjusting the tack on an asymmetrical spinnaker and will also wrap the topping lift around it, but isn't needed for that.
On Jul 7, 2011, at 2:35 PM, jerry wrote:
3' is a good do-more measurement on most boats. Best is to mount the ring on a track with the middle about 3'. This is actually a measurement for a spinnaker ring, but I've never had a problem with it for a whisker pole, and ikf you cdan move the mast end of the pole up or down you can control the twist to a certain extent.. A 4X 8 pole should work for a 17; that's what I have for my Sage but I really can't remember using it.
On spinnakers, most racing rules (PHRF, etc) restrict a spinnnaker to 180% of the J, and the pole to no longer than the J. A lot of small trailerables that aren't concerned with no stupid rules will reach better with a 200% chute, and they will be better in a drifter period. The big deal about keeping the spinnaker pole level is simply so that it will project out further, keeping the slot between the main and the chute more opener.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jenkins" <tjenk@gte.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 12:03 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Well, Jerry, how high up on a 17, If I might ask? Maybe the 6-12 pole would be more appropriate, but I don't have the mast up to see if the longer pole is necessary.
Thanks, Tom Jenkins
On Jul 7, 2011, at 10:40 AM, jerry wrote:
3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a 150 or big drifter.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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I should have been more specific. On my 1978 M17, there is a sheet winch, port side cabin top, just about directly above the galley sink between the grab rails and hatch cover coaming. It has a small cleat beside it. It surely was put there for a purpose, just not obvious to me what that might be. This boat does have a spinnaker halyard, in addition to those for the jib and main. On Jul 7, 2011, at 3:24 PM, jerry wrote:
By sheet winches on top of the house, you mean like you would do on a M-15 (if you wanted winches) or a Santana 20, or the new Sage? The value is that you can winch in after a tack from the weather side instead of having to get your weight off to leeward. On a boat that has the jib sheeted inside of the shrouds (on the house top) it's a no-brainer to put the winches (also the wenches) on the cabin top, even tho it moves the weight a bit higher it's worth it. Cabintop winches would also work for a spinnaker but you would need to have clamps for the sheets so you could release them after the chute is up; also the halyards.
Is this what you were asking?
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 12:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Along these lines, what is the purpose of the sheet winch on top of the cabin? I've always assumed it was "chute" related, but wasn't sure. I've only used it for adjusting the tack on an asymmetrical spinnaker and will also wrap the topping lift around it, but isn't needed for that.
I believe the winch you are referring to is for the jib halyard, at least that's what mine's for... t On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
I should have been more specific. On my 1978 M17, there is a sheet winch, port side cabin top, just about directly above the galley sink between the grab rails and hatch cover coaming. It has a small cleat beside it. It surely was put there for a purpose, just not obvious to me what that might be. This boat does have a spinnaker halyard, in addition to those for the jib and main.
Tom's right- first time, tho. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Smith" <openboatt@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:48 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation I believe the winch you are referring to is for the jib halyard, at least that's what mine's for... t On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
I should have been more specific. On my 1978 M17, there is a sheet winch, port side cabin top, just about directly above the galley sink between the grab rails and hatch cover coaming. It has a small cleat beside it. It surely was put there for a purpose, just not obvious to me what that might be. This boat does have a spinnaker halyard, in addition to those for the jib and main.
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That might explain a few things. I've only used the cleats on the mast for my halyards. Jib to port, main to starboard. Sweat them up and cleat them off. The downhaul will tension the luff of the main. Jib luff will stretch and sag a bit. There is a turning block at the base of the mast and another near the winch. However, there isn't jib enough halyard to thread it and reach the winch. As is, I'd have to raise the jib a bit to gain some slack, then thread it. Halyards are 5/16". The 1/4" line I use for my topping lift is a snug fit, which is why it never occurred to me to use it for the jib. So how much pointing ability have I been giving up with my sagging "stuff"? (Headstay and jib luff) On Jul 7, 2011, at 4:02 PM, jerry wrote:
Tom's right- first time, tho.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Smith" <openboatt@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:48 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
I believe the winch you are referring to is for the jib halyard, at least that's what mine's for... t
On Thu, Jul 7, 2011 at 1:34 PM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
I should have been more specific. On my 1978 M17, there is a sheet winch, port side cabin top, just about directly above the galley sink between the grab rails and hatch cover coaming. It has a small cleat beside it. It surely was put there for a purpose, just not obvious to me what that might be. This boat does have a spinnaker halyard, in addition to those for the jib and main.
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You're probably not giving up much, Howard, if anything (you don't have as much complexity--one turn vs three--in the setup you have vs using the winch, but of course the winch gives you good mechanical advantage). You could be giving up a little convenience because with the winch you don't have to secure all that head sail halyard at the mast base (just coil it and hang it on the winch), and I have a clam cleat to lead the halyard to, so I don't have to fool with cleating with a horn cleat. Neither are big deals, obviously. I don't suppose you run as big a risk of losing the halyard up the mast with the blocks/winch combination, but there are ways around that too. It sounds cool to use the winch? t
A frugal approach that works well for me is a cheap $20 and lightweight telescoping paint pole from Home Despot. I attached a shackle on one end and in the plastic cap on the other end, I threaded a hangar bolt into it. I slipped a 1" long piece of shrink tubing and shrunk it snug and smooth on the bolt with a butane lighter. That's the piece that I simply poke into the grommet in the clew of the jib. I attach the shackle to another shackle attached to the stern-facing base of the mast whose dual purpose is to also attach my boom vang. Not particularly elegant but it does the job and the adjustability is convenient. For anyone coming to Monterey, I would be happy to show it to you. The money I saved went into a DriDek cockpit sole that I am cutting to custom fit. :-) Neil Dorf Regional Solutions Consultant, CDIA+ Océ North America • a Canon Group Company Technology & Software Support 1164 W. National Drive Suite 10 • Sacramento, CA 95834 • USA Telephone 916 419 6975 Mobile 916 871 3179 Fax 916 576 1970 Email neil.dorf@oce.com Web site www.oceusa.com Sent from my iPad On Jul 7, 2011, at 2:41 PM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
You're probably not giving up much, Howard, if anything (you don't have as much complexity--one turn vs three--in the setup you have vs using the winch, but of course the winch gives you good mechanical advantage).
You could be giving up a little convenience because with the winch you don't have to secure all that head sail halyard at the mast base (just coil it and hang it on the winch), and I have a clam cleat to lead the halyard to, so I don't have to fool with cleating with a horn cleat. Neither are big deals, obviously.
I don't suppose you run as big a risk of losing the halyard up the mast with the blocks/winch combination, but there are ways around that too.
It sounds cool to use the winch?
t
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As is, my rig is easy to use. I just coil the halyards and hang them on the side cleats when underway. Drop the coils and undo the cleats and down they come. The halyards are half wire, so while when hanging free in the breeze they may flop around a bit, they are not going anywhere. Same can't be said for the wire end. You only have to let go of that once and watch the wire end head for the masthead to learn that routine. You never let go of them. They are always hooked to something........either tied to a sail or clipped to the spinnaker ring on the front of the mast. But I am now curious how some snug tension in the jib halyard will affect pointing ability. With what I have, I can tie in butterfly knot (won't jam) above the cleats and use that as a trucker's hitch to gain some purchase. I've had the turning blocks leading to that sheet winch off the cabin top to re-bed them and I wouldn't put too much tension on them.......not what I could generate with a sheet winch if I cranked on it with the handle. Or what I suspect might be generated by heavily loaded 155 genny. Maybe I baby it too much? Also, I've never used a backstay adjuster. I'm generally content to simply crank up the tension a few turns for a race or if I didn't want to tack all day long to go somewhere. I don't leave it that way as I didn't think that much tension on a regular basis was good for things. On Jul 7, 2011, at 4:41 PM, Tom Smith wrote:
You're probably not giving up much, Howard, if anything (you don't have as much complexity--one turn vs three--in the setup you have vs using the winch, but of course the winch gives you good mechanical advantage).
You could be giving up a little convenience because with the winch you don't have to secure all that head sail halyard at the mast base (just coil it and hang it on the winch), and I have a clam cleat to lead the halyard to, so I don't have to fool with cleating with a horn cleat. Neither are big deals, obviously.
I don't suppose you run as big a risk of losing the halyard up the mast with the blocks/winch combination, but there are ways around that too.
It sounds cool to use the winch?
t
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Would that be the recommended height for the M17?? Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: jerry To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation 3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a 150 or big drifter. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Yes, that's the figure I always used for my own boats. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:04 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Would that be the recommended height for the M17?? Joe SeaFrog M17 ----- Original Message ----- From: jerry To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 1:40 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
3' up from base; Forespar 4-8 is about perfect and will even work for a 150 or big drifter.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Hall" <bert.hall@rogers.com> To: "Montgomery Owners" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2011 10:30 AM Subject: M_Boats: Whisker Pole Installation
Hello All, Can anyone tell me at what height on the mast the eye should be installed on a M-15 to use a whisker pole on the factory jib? How long a pole will I need? .With thanks. RTH. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
participants (8)
-
Bill Wickett -
Howard Audsley -
jerry -
Joe Murphy -
Neil Dorf -
Robert Hall -
Tom Jenkins -
Tom Smith