Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
Tom, I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk". Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
Hi Bill, Seems like suspending the board by the pennant would allow for a lot more swing from side to side. Have you found this to be true? On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk".
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
I do get a side to side clunk when the boat is "idling", as in not moving forward enough for the foil to generate lift and counteract any side to side wave action. That will usually be in light air or if you are pinching up tool much and starting to stall. (Almost in irons) Lifting the board another inch or 2 generally removes the "irritant". As does bearing away and picking up speed. More satisfying too. It was suggested to me on this board and by the previous owner when I got the boat in 2009, not to let the c/b bottom out. Especially important if you loose your grip on the pendant. I believe most of the early boats ( built by Jerry) have a winch to raise lower the c/b, while the later boats (after 2001?) have a cam cleat, as mine does (2003). Guess having the winch does give more control and less likely to get a drop onto the stop. Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bill, Seems like suspending the board by the pennant would allow for a lot more swing from side to side. Have you found this to be true?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk".
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
The trick is once you find how much line to let out on your center board, or some of the other lines too is to tie a stopper not so if it slips out of the cam cleat or whatever it will still stop before it goes into the wash. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wickett" <billwick@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:54 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard clunk I do get a side to side clunk when the boat is "idling", as in not moving forward enough for the foil to generate lift and counteract any side to side wave action. That will usually be in light air or if you are pinching up tool much and starting to stall. (Almost in irons) Lifting the board another inch or 2 generally removes the "irritant". As does bearing away and picking up speed. More satisfying too. It was suggested to me on this board and by the previous owner when I got the boat in 2009, not to let the c/b bottom out. Especially important if you loose your grip on the pendant. I believe most of the early boats ( built by Jerry) have a winch to raise lower the c/b, while the later boats (after 2001?) have a cam cleat, as mine does (2003). Guess having the winch does give more control and less likely to get a drop onto the stop. Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bill, Seems like suspending the board by the pennant would allow for a lot more swing from side to side. Have you found this to be true?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk".
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8229 - Release Date: 09/17/14
there is no centerboard winch on the M15s. the M17s with M15 centerboards do not have winches. the M17s with the cast iron board have a winch, in the cabin, for raising/lowering the 180lb board. on all M-boats the centerboard should be suspended by the pennant with the board is down. there should be a knot on all M15s that stops the board before it over-extends and the leading edge hits the forward part of the centerboard trunk. i can't remember the length from the pennant hole to the knot. if wanted i can go out and measure the distance on the M15 here at the shop. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:13 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
The trick is once you find how much line to let out on your center board, or some of the other lines too is to tie a stopper not so if it slips out of the cam cleat or whatever it will still stop before it goes into the wash. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wickett" <billwick@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:54 AM
I do get a side to side clunk when the boat is "idling", as in not moving forward enough for the foil to generate lift and counteract any side to side wave action. That will usually be in light air or if you are pinching up tool much and starting to stall. (Almost in irons)
Lifting the board another inch or 2 generally removes the "irritant". As does bearing away and picking up speed. More satisfying too.
It was suggested to me on this board and by the previous owner when I got the boat in 2009, not to let the c/b bottom out. Especially important if you loose your grip on the pendant. I believe most of the early boats ( built by Jerry) have a winch to raise lower the c/b, while the later boats (after 2001?) have a cam cleat, as mine does (2003). Guess having the winch does give more control and less likely to get a drop onto the stop.
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bill, Seems like suspending the board by the pennant would allow for a lot more swing from side to side. Have you found this to be true?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk".
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
Dave, I too am interested in the length of the M-15 pennant. Although it is O K on my M-15 now, I may need to replace it some day, and knowing the specifications would be useful. You did tell what I needed to replace my mainsheet and traveler when I talked with you at Pocket Yachts in Port Townsend, and like those new lines that I bought from the WoodenBoat Chandlery. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Scobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 2:19 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard clunk
there is no centerboard winch on the M15s. the M17s with M15 centerboards do not have winches. the M17s with the cast iron board have a winch, in the cabin, for raising/lowering the 180lb board.
on all M-boats the centerboard should be suspended by the pennant with the board is down.
there should be a knot on all M15s that stops the board before it over-extends and the leading edge hits the forward part of the centerboard trunk. i can't remember the length from the pennant hole to the knot. if wanted i can go out and measure the distance on the M15 here at the shop.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:13 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
The trick is once you find how much line to let out on your center board, or some of the other lines too is to tie a stopper not so if it slips out of the cam cleat or whatever it will still stop before it goes into the wash. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wickett" <billwick@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:54 AM
I do get a side to side clunk when the boat is "idling", as in not moving forward enough for the foil to generate lift and counteract any side to side wave action. That will usually be in light air or if you are pinching up tool much and starting to stall. (Almost in irons)
Lifting the board another inch or 2 generally removes the "irritant". As does bearing away and picking up speed. More satisfying too.
It was suggested to me on this board and by the previous owner when I got the boat in 2009, not to let the c/b bottom out. Especially important if you loose your grip on the pendant. I believe most of the early boats ( built by Jerry) have a winch to raise lower the c/b, while the later boats (after 2001?) have a cam cleat, as mine does (2003). Guess having the winch does give more control and less likely to get a drop onto the stop.
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bill, Seems like suspending the board by the pennant would allow for a lot more swing from side to side. Have you found this to be true?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk".
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8229 - Release Date: 09/17/14
So the board actually does hang on the pennant instead of resting on the pin. And the pin is there to catch the board if the pennant fails? Interesting. Is that so if the board hits something it will not be allowed to go up and bang down on the pin? I am curious about the thinking in all this. I would appreciate some more explanation. thanks. On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
there is no centerboard winch on the M15s. the M17s with M15 centerboards do not have winches. the M17s with the cast iron board have a winch, in the cabin, for raising/lowering the 180lb board.
on all M-boats the centerboard should be suspended by the pennant with the board is down.
there should be a knot on all M15s that stops the board before it over-extends and the leading edge hits the forward part of the centerboard trunk. i can't remember the length from the pennant hole to the knot. if wanted i can go out and measure the distance on the M15 here at the shop.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:13 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
The trick is once you find how much line to let out on your center board, or some of the other lines too is to tie a stopper not so if it slips out of the cam cleat or whatever it will still stop before it goes into the wash. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wickett" <billwick@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:54 AM
I do get a side to side clunk when the boat is "idling", as in not moving forward enough for the foil to generate lift and counteract any side to side wave action. That will usually be in light air or if you are
pinching
up tool much and starting to stall. (Almost in irons)
Lifting the board another inch or 2 generally removes the "irritant". As does bearing away and picking up speed. More satisfying too.
It was suggested to me on this board and by the previous owner when I got the boat in 2009, not to let the c/b bottom out. Especially important if you loose your grip on the pendant. I believe most of the early boats ( built by Jerry) have a winch to raise lower the c/b, while the later boats (after 2001?) have a cam cleat, as mine does (2003). Guess having the winch does give more control and less likely to get a drop onto the stop.
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bill, Seems like suspending the board by the pennant would allow for a lot more swing from side to side. Have you found this to be true?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk".
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
the M15 doesn't have a stop pin (at least my M15 and the M15 here at the shop). the you don't want the stop knot on the M15 to be supporting the board, you want the cleat at the companionway to be supporting the board. to M15 'stop knot' tells you when the board is fully extended as there is no 'stop' to keep it from over extending (see below discussion of M17). i'll measure the length of the pennant from the hole to the knot tomorrow (18 Sept. '14). i'll also give Jerry a shout about how long pennant should be if you are replacing the line. the cast iron centerboard M17s have a stop pin. yes, it is there to keep the board from overextending, or stopping the board if the pennant comes loose and the board 'falls'. i don't use a stop knot on my M17, SWEET PEA. i just lower the board, slowly, until i hear the 'clunk' when the board's tang hits the bolt. i then raise the board an inch (or so). i don't believe the M17s with an M15 board have a stop pin. later model M17 owners care to comment? the reason you don't want the board resting on the pin is the board will 'clunk' more as it is then supporting on the lower aft end and the rotation pin. (again this is for the cast iron M17s.) lifted off the stop pin the board is supported from it's 'top' and will be better behaved. bouncing on the stop pin is also a consideration. i hope Jerry jumps into this conversation. he is away from his computer a lot at the moment. Sage 15 prototype building is going strong. the first prototype hull is being layed up as i type this message. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
So the board actually does hang on the pennant instead of resting on the pin. And the pin is there to catch the board if the pennant fails? Interesting. Is that so if the board hits something it will not be allowed to go up and bang down on the pin? I am curious about the thinking in all this. I would appreciate some more explanation. thanks.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
there is no centerboard winch on the M15s. the M17s with M15 centerboards do not have winches. the M17s with the cast iron board have a winch, in the cabin, for raising/lowering the 180lb board.
on all M-boats the centerboard should be suspended by the pennant with the board is down.
there should be a knot on all M15s that stops the board before it over-extends and the leading edge hits the forward part of the centerboard trunk. i can't remember the length from the pennant hole to the knot. if wanted i can go out and measure the distance on the M15 here at the shop.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
I don't remember how long the penmnant is, but I do remember that the stopper knot should be 15" above the thwart. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Scobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:42 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard clunk
the M15 doesn't have a stop pin (at least my M15 and the M15 here at the shop). the you don't want the stop knot on the M15 to be supporting the board, you want the cleat at the companionway to be supporting the board. to M15 'stop knot' tells you when the board is fully extended as there is no 'stop' to keep it from over extending (see below discussion of M17).
i'll measure the length of the pennant from the hole to the knot tomorrow (18 Sept. '14). i'll also give Jerry a shout about how long pennant should be if you are replacing the line.
the cast iron centerboard M17s have a stop pin. yes, it is there to keep the board from overextending, or stopping the board if the pennant comes loose and the board 'falls'. i don't use a stop knot on my M17, SWEET PEA. i just lower the board, slowly, until i hear the 'clunk' when the board's tang hits the bolt. i then raise the board an inch (or so).
i don't believe the M17s with an M15 board have a stop pin. later model M17 owners care to comment?
the reason you don't want the board resting on the pin is the board will 'clunk' more as it is then supporting on the lower aft end and the rotation pin. (again this is for the cast iron M17s.) lifted off the stop pin the board is supported from it's 'top' and will be better behaved. bouncing on the stop pin is also a consideration.
i hope Jerry jumps into this conversation. he is away from his computer a lot at the moment. Sage 15 prototype building is going strong. the first prototype hull is being layed up as i type this message.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
So the board actually does hang on the pennant instead of resting on the pin. And the pin is there to catch the board if the pennant fails? Interesting. Is that so if the board hits something it will not be allowed to go up and bang down on the pin? I am curious about the thinking in all this. I would appreciate some more explanation. thanks.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
there is no centerboard winch on the M15s. the M17s with M15 centerboards do not have winches. the M17s with the cast iron board have a winch, in the cabin, for raising/lowering the 180lb board.
on all M-boats the centerboard should be suspended by the pennant with the board is down.
there should be a knot on all M15s that stops the board before it over-extends and the leading edge hits the forward part of the centerboard trunk. i can't remember the length from the pennant hole to the knot. if wanted i can go out and measure the distance on the M15 here at the shop.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 13004 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
Dave, The cleat is a few inches over to the side from the hole where the pennant goes to the center board. Have always used the stopper knot on my M-15, still using the original pennant and knot on a boat that built in 1985. I think by using the cleat, the center board will be a few inches shy of its maximum extension and depth. I wonder if that is really how it should be? Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Scobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:42 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard clunk
the M15 doesn't have a stop pin (at least my M15 and the M15 here at the shop). the you don't want the stop knot on the M15 to be supporting the board, you want the cleat at the companionway to be supporting the board. to M15 'stop knot' tells you when the board is fully extended as there is no 'stop' to keep it from over extending (see below discussion of M17).
i'll measure the length of the pennant from the hole to the knot tomorrow (18 Sept. '14). i'll also give Jerry a shout about how long pennant should be if you are replacing the line.
the cast iron centerboard M17s have a stop pin. yes, it is there to keep the board from overextending, or stopping the board if the pennant comes loose and the board 'falls'. i don't use a stop knot on my M17, SWEET PEA. i just lower the board, slowly, until i hear the 'clunk' when the board's tang hits the bolt. i then raise the board an inch (or so).
i don't believe the M17s with an M15 board have a stop pin. later model M17 owners care to comment?
the reason you don't want the board resting on the pin is the board will 'clunk' more as it is then supporting on the lower aft end and the rotation pin. (again this is for the cast iron M17s.) lifted off the stop pin the board is supported from it's 'top' and will be better behaved. bouncing on the stop pin is also a consideration.
i hope Jerry jumps into this conversation. he is away from his computer a lot at the moment. Sage 15 prototype building is going strong. the first prototype hull is being layed up as i type this message.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 5:15 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
So the board actually does hang on the pennant instead of resting on the pin. And the pin is there to catch the board if the pennant fails? Interesting. Is that so if the board hits something it will not be allowed to go up and bang down on the pin? I am curious about the thinking in all this. I would appreciate some more explanation. thanks.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
there is no centerboard winch on the M15s. the M17s with M15 centerboards do not have winches. the M17s with the cast iron board have a winch, in the cabin, for raising/lowering the 180lb board.
on all M-boats the centerboard should be suspended by the pennant with the board is down.
there should be a knot on all M15s that stops the board before it over-extends and the leading edge hits the forward part of the centerboard trunk. i can't remember the length from the pennant hole to the knot. if wanted i can go out and measure the distance on the M15 here at the shop.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
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Steve: the stopper knot should be stopped just before heads into the hole and wants to 'jam'. there should be enough 'extra' for you to tie off on the cleat. the M15 boards are not heavy (40 to 45 lbs). if you line isn't rotting or showing signs of wear it is likely OK. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:05 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Dave, The cleat is a few inches over to the side from the hole where the pennant goes to the center board. Have always used the stopper knot on my M-15, still using the original pennant and knot on a boat that built in 1985. I think by using the cleat, the center board will be a few inches shy of its maximum extension and depth. I wonder if that is really how it should be? Steve M-15 # 335
Dave, Thanx, that makes sense. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Scobie" <scoobscobie@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 5:14 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard clunk
Steve:
the stopper knot should be stopped just before heads into the hole and wants to 'jam'. there should be enough 'extra' for you to tie off on the cleat.
the M15 boards are not heavy (40 to 45 lbs). if you line isn't rotting or showing signs of wear it is likely OK.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:05 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
Dave, The cleat is a few inches over to the side from the hole where the pennant goes to the center board. Have always used the stopper knot on my M-15, still using the original pennant and knot on a boat that built in 1985. I think by using the cleat, the center board will be a few inches shy of its maximum extension and depth. I wonder if that is really how it should be? Steve M-15 # 335
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8229 - Release Date: 09/17/14
Have had experience with centerboard clunk caused by a rock in shallow water, the centerboard bounced, as did the rudder, but the boat sailed on and the only real damage was it spilled my beer. But it was a small rock. Steve M-15 # 335 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard clunk
So the board actually does hang on the pennant instead of resting on the pin. And the pin is there to catch the board if the pennant fails? Interesting. Is that so if the board hits something it will not be allowed to go up and bang down on the pin? I am curious about the thinking in all this. I would appreciate some more explanation. thanks.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
there is no centerboard winch on the M15s. the M17s with M15 centerboards do not have winches. the M17s with the cast iron board have a winch, in the cabin, for raising/lowering the 180lb board.
on all M-boats the centerboard should be suspended by the pennant with the board is down.
there should be a knot on all M15s that stops the board before it over-extends and the leading edge hits the forward part of the centerboard trunk. i can't remember the length from the pennant hole to the knot. if wanted i can go out and measure the distance on the M15 here at the shop.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:13 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
The trick is once you find how much line to let out on your center board, or some of the other lines too is to tie a stopper not so if it slips out of the cam cleat or whatever it will still stop before it goes into the wash. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wickett" <billwick@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:54 AM
I do get a side to side clunk when the boat is "idling", as in not moving forward enough for the foil to generate lift and counteract any side to side wave action. That will usually be in light air or if you are
pinching
up tool much and starting to stall. (Almost in irons)
Lifting the board another inch or 2 generally removes the "irritant". As does bearing away and picking up speed. More satisfying too.
It was suggested to me on this board and by the previous owner when I got the boat in 2009, not to let the c/b bottom out. Especially important if you loose your grip on the pendant. I believe most of the early boats ( built by Jerry) have a winch to raise lower the c/b, while the later boats (after 2001?) have a cam cleat, as mine does (2003). Guess having the winch does give more control and less likely to get a drop onto the stop.
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bill, Seems like suspending the board by the pennant would allow for a lot more swing from side to side. Have you found this to be true?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk".
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2014.0.4765 / Virus Database: 4015/8229 - Release Date: 09/17/14
The M-15 has a stopper knot and the board hangs on the knot (it only weighs 40 lbs and the weight on the pennant is less than that), but the M-17 with the iron boards have a stopper pin, and the board is intended to hang on the pin; NOT on the pennant. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 4:15 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Centerboard clunk
So the board actually does hang on the pennant instead of resting on the pin. And the pin is there to catch the board if the pennant fails? Interesting. Is that so if the board hits something it will not be allowed to go up and bang down on the pin? I am curious about the thinking in all this. I would appreciate some more explanation. thanks.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
there is no centerboard winch on the M15s. the M17s with M15 centerboards do not have winches. the M17s with the cast iron board have a winch, in the cabin, for raising/lowering the 180lb board.
on all M-boats the centerboard should be suspended by the pennant with the board is down.
there should be a knot on all M15s that stops the board before it over-extends and the leading edge hits the forward part of the centerboard trunk. i can't remember the length from the pennant hole to the knot. if wanted i can go out and measure the distance on the M15 here at the shop.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:13 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
The trick is once you find how much line to let out on your center board, or some of the other lines too is to tie a stopper not so if it slips out of the cam cleat or whatever it will still stop before it goes into the wash. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wickett" <billwick@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:54 AM
I do get a side to side clunk when the boat is "idling", as in not moving forward enough for the foil to generate lift and counteract any side to side wave action. That will usually be in light air or if you are
pinching
up tool much and starting to stall. (Almost in irons)
Lifting the board another inch or 2 generally removes the "irritant". As does bearing away and picking up speed. More satisfying too.
It was suggested to me on this board and by the previous owner when I got the boat in 2009, not to let the c/b bottom out. Especially important if you loose your grip on the pendant. I believe most of the early boats ( built by Jerry) have a winch to raise lower the c/b, while the later boats (after 2001?) have a cam cleat, as mine does (2003). Guess having the winch does give more control and less likely to get a drop onto the stop.
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bill, Seems like suspending the board by the pennant would allow for a lot more swing from side to side. Have you found this to be true?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk".
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
-- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter. SPAMfighter has removed 13004 of my spam emails to date. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len Do you have a slow PC? Try a Free scan http://www.spamfighter.com/SLOW-PCfighter?cid=sigen
well i stand corrected on this ... thanks for the info Jerry & Stan. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 5:58 PM, jerry montgomery <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org
wrote:
... the M-17 with the iron boards have a stopper pin, and the board is intended to hang on the pin; NOT on the pennant.
jerry
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:03 PM, Ezbumm <stanpfa@pacbell.net> wrote: No Sent from my iPhone
No Sent from my iPhone
On Sep 17, 2014, at 4:15 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
So the board actually does hang on the pennant instead of resting on the pin. And the pin is there to catch the board if the pennant fails? Interesting. Is that so if the board hits something it will not be allowed to go up and bang down on the pin? I am curious about the thinking in all this. I would appreciate some more explanation. thanks.
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 4:19 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
there is no centerboard winch on the M15s. the M17s with M15 centerboards do not have winches. the M17s with the cast iron board have a winch, in the cabin, for raising/lowering the 180lb board.
on all M-boats the centerboard should be suspended by the pennant with the board is down.
there should be a knot on all M15s that stops the board before it over-extends and the leading edge hits the forward part of the centerboard trunk. i can't remember the length from the pennant hole to the knot. if wanted i can go out and measure the distance on the M15 here at the shop.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 12:13 PM, stevetrapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
The trick is once you find how much line to let out on your center board, or some of the other lines too is to tie a stopper not so if it slips out of the cam cleat or whatever it will still stop before it goes into the wash. Steve M-15 # 335
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Wickett" <billwick@gmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2014 9:54 AM
I do get a side to side clunk when the boat is "idling", as in not moving forward enough for the foil to generate lift and counteract any side to side wave action. That will usually be in light air or if you are pinching up tool much and starting to stall. (Almost in irons)
Lifting the board another inch or 2 generally removes the "irritant". As does bearing away and picking up speed. More satisfying too.
It was suggested to me on this board and by the previous owner when I got the boat in 2009, not to let the c/b bottom out. Especially important if you loose your grip on the pendant. I believe most of the early boats ( built by Jerry) have a winch to raise lower the c/b, while the later boats (after 2001?) have a cam cleat, as mine does (2003). Guess having the winch does give more control and less likely to get a drop onto the stop.
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 12:09 PM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Bill, Seems like suspending the board by the pennant would allow for a lot more swing from side to side. Have you found this to be true?
On Wed, Sep 17, 2014 at 6:20 AM, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Tom,
I suggest that you mark or knot the centreboard pendant line so it stops just before "bottoming out". Will save any potential wear/damage on the surfaces that touch when lowered to the limit. You also won't have to deal with the " last thunk".
Bill
On Sep 17, 2014, at 5:18 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Now that I have the board out, it looks like the diameter of the notch that stops the board from go down too far on my 17 is large enough that I can slip a dense rubber sleeve over the thru bolt that catches the notch in the board. That should relieve that last "thunk" when lowering the board which has always set my teeth on edge. A second consideration, since the board was also deeply grooved on both sides where it worked against the bottom edge of the cb trunk when fully lowered is to adhere some sort of vinyl sweep on the bottom inside edge of the cb slot. The vinyl sweep should be easier on the bottom paint on the board and should mitigate the side to side action of the board in the slot. By placing the sweeps right at the bottom of the cb truck they should also help with the slot turbulence. No? Nice to have a situation like this to chew on at four in the morning.[?] Tyler's idea about using cutting board material merits further consideration also. Good idea. Tom B, M17, '77, as yet 'no name'. I think it is waiting until I get it back on the trailer to tell me what it's name is.
participants (6)
-
Bill Wickett -
Dave Scobie -
Ezbumm -
jerry montgomery -
stevetrapp -
Thomas Buzzi