Hello all. I learn a lot from reading your emails. I was just reading a thread on sail sizes and read that one of the authors was thankful for the information of putting the 150 genoa blocks on the tow rail outside the shrouds. He seemed to imply that there was a mounting point for the smaller jibs somewhere between the shrouds. I'm new to rigging my recently purchased 1981 blue M-17 and I always put the blocks for the foresail (no matter what the size) on the toe rail. I imagine the boat could point better with the blocks located further towards the center of the boat. Am I doing this wrong? Where are your jib (say 100 sized) blocks normally located? Thanks for your help. Tom Frei
I have sailed a 17 since '77, altho not for racing; the boat stock comes only with a toe rail and when I change down to a 110 I move the blocks forward about 4-5 notches in the rail. I seem to recall that the rule of thumb is that the sheet should project an angle which intersects the leech of the sail about mid way up the forestay....one could install a piece of track about 12-18 inches long with a car on either side of the deck inside the shrouds but I don't think the fore-aft location would change much, the angle would remain close to that....I suppose you'd want to be sure to put strong backing plates or washers under the tracks and angle them a little in toward the centerline as they run aft; ...hope this helps,,,,
Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:59:33 -0500 From: tom.frei@gmail.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Where to put the jib blocks on a M17
Hello all. I learn a lot from reading your emails. I was just reading a thread on sail sizes and read that one of the authors was thankful for the information of putting the 150 genoa blocks on the tow rail outside the shrouds. He seemed to imply that there was a mounting point for the smaller jibs somewhere between the shrouds. I'm new to rigging my recently purchased 1981 blue M-17 and I always put the blocks for the foresail (no matter what the size) on the toe rail. I imagine the boat could point better with the blocks located further towards the center of the boat. Am I doing this wrong? Where are your jib (say 100 sized) blocks normally located?
Thanks for your help.
Tom Frei _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
tom: the jib sheets for the M17 run outside the shrouds on the toe rail. the M15 jib sheets run inside the shrouds. Sage 17, jerry's latest design, the jib sheets run inside the shrouds and the genoa sheets outside the shrouds. Sage 17 points higher into the wind than the M17 or M15, because of the sheeting angle and a more efficient keel design. you are correct that the M17 would point just a bit higher to the wind if the jib sheets ran inside the shrouds. as you have noticed there isn't the cabintop space to install jib car tracks. the exact location to set the block on the M17s toe rail depends on wind speed, sail (cut, size and age) and the boat's angle to the wind. On SWEET PEA, my M17, i usually set the jib sheet blocks just forward of the cockpit combing in the area of the cabin window. this works well for my 110% working jib (a McKibbin sail). for the 150 the blocks are set just aft of the sheet winches. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine, builder of the Jerry Montgomery Sage 17 - www.sagemarine.com --- On Fri, 9/9/11, Tom Frei <tom.frei@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all. I learn a lot from reading your emails. I was just reading a thread on sail sizes and read that one of the authors was thankful for the information of putting the 150 genoa blocks on the tow rail outside the shrouds. He seemed to imply that there was a mounting point for the smaller jibs somewhere between the shrouds. I'm new to rigging my recently purchased 1981 blue M-17 and I always put the blocks for the foresail (no matter what the size) on the toe rail. I imagine the boat could point better with the blocks located further towards the center of the boat. Am I doing this wrong? Where are your jib (say 100 sized) blocks normally located?
Thanks for your help.
Tom Frei
i forgot to state - jerry has described the option of a t-track and sheet cars on the M17's side decks, close to the cabin sides, just forward of the cockpit combing and running forward of the cabin window. this will give a slightly tighter sheeting angle to a working jib and get you a few points closer to the wind. i've seen this setup on a few of the really old M17s (like those built between '75 - '78. this setup was popular with the 'racers', but not the cruisers because the track/block/etc took up 'foot space' on the sidedeck. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine, builder of the Jerry Montgomery Sage 17 - www.sagemarine.com --- On Fri, 9/9/11, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where to put the jib blocks on a M17 To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, September 9, 2011, 4:54 PM tom:
the jib sheets for the M17 run outside the shrouds on the toe rail. the M15 jib sheets run inside the shrouds.
Sage 17, jerry's latest design, the jib sheets run inside the shrouds and the genoa sheets outside the shrouds. Sage 17 points higher into the wind than the M17 or M15, because of the sheeting angle and a more efficient keel design.
you are correct that the M17 would point just a bit higher to the wind if the jib sheets ran inside the shrouds. as you have noticed there isn't the cabintop space to install jib car tracks.
the exact location to set the block on the M17s toe rail depends on wind speed, sail (cut, size and age) and the boat's angle to the wind. On SWEET PEA, my M17, i usually set the jib sheet blocks just forward of the cockpit combing in the area of the cabin window. this works well for my 110% working jib (a McKibbin sail). for the 150 the blocks are set just aft of the sheet winches.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine, builder of the Jerry Montgomery Sage 17 - www.sagemarine.com
--- On Fri, 9/9/11, Tom Frei <tom.frei@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all. I learn a lot from reading your emails. I was just reading a thread on sail sizes and read that one of the authors was thankful for the information of putting the 150 genoa blocks on the tow rail outside the shrouds. He seemed to imply that there was a mounting point for the smaller jibs somewhere between the shrouds. I'm new to rigging my recently purchased 1981 blue M-17 and I always put the blocks for the foresail (no matter what the size) on the toe rail. I imagine the boat could point better with the blocks located further towards the center of the boat. Am I doing this wrong? Where are your jib (say 100 sized) blocks normally located?
Thanks for your help.
Tom Frei
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Another way to experiment with sheeting closer to the centerline without installing any hardware (you certainly don't have to install track on the M17 side deck--you can use the cabintop side if you want, or the combing top in front of the winch) is to use a Barberhauler. Do a web search for details, but essentially you lead the sheet through a block on a line lead to windward that's forward of your normal sheet block, and that pulls the clew of the sail in closer. Sort of fun to fool around with, and cheap and easy. t On Fri, Sep 9, 2011 at 4:01 PM, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
i forgot to state -
jerry has described the option of a t-track and sheet cars on the M17's side decks, close to the cabin sides, just forward of the cockpit combing and running forward of the cabin window. this will give a slightly tighter sheeting angle to a working jib and get you a few points closer to the wind.
i've seen this setup on a few of the really old M17s (like those built between '75 - '78.
this setup was popular with the 'racers', but not the cruisers because the track/block/etc took up 'foot space' on the sidedeck.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine, builder of the Jerry Montgomery Sage 17 - www.sagemarine.com
--- On Fri, 9/9/11, W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: W David Scobie <wdscobie@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Where to put the jib blocks on a M17 To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, September 9, 2011, 4:54 PM tom:
the jib sheets for the M17 run outside the shrouds on the toe rail. the M15 jib sheets run inside the shrouds.
Sage 17, jerry's latest design, the jib sheets run inside the shrouds and the genoa sheets outside the shrouds. Sage 17 points higher into the wind than the M17 or M15, because of the sheeting angle and a more efficient keel design.
you are correct that the M17 would point just a bit higher to the wind if the jib sheets ran inside the shrouds. as you have noticed there isn't the cabintop space to install jib car tracks.
the exact location to set the block on the M17s toe rail depends on wind speed, sail (cut, size and age) and the boat's angle to the wind. On SWEET PEA, my M17, i usually set the jib sheet blocks just forward of the cockpit combing in the area of the cabin window. this works well for my 110% working jib (a McKibbin sail). for the 150 the blocks are set just aft of the sheet winches.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 - SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: Sage Marine, builder of the Jerry Montgomery Sage 17 - www.sagemarine.com
--- On Fri, 9/9/11, Tom Frei <tom.frei@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all. I learn a lot from reading your emails. I was just reading a thread on sail sizes and read that one of the authors was thankful for the information of putting the 150 genoa blocks on the tow rail outside the shrouds. He seemed to imply that there was a mounting point for the smaller jibs somewhere between the shrouds. I'm new to rigging my recently purchased 1981 blue M-17 and I always put the blocks for the foresail (no matter what the size) on the toe rail. I imagine the boat could point better with the blocks located further towards the center of the boat. Am I doing this wrong? Where are your jib (say 100 sized) blocks normally located?
Thanks for your help.
Tom Frei
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
participants (4)
-
Jack Ebner -
Tom Frei -
Tom Smith -
W David Scobie