1.Montgomery type house. Trunk house may tend towards looking stubby 2. Opening ports leak - no thank you - deckplate type vent is interchangeable and seals tightly. Opening ports have smaller lights for given area - less light below. 3.Big rig - 'plastic spars' ??? PS - the main reason I changed to a tall rig is that I was able to compare them side by side - the tall rig is BLISTERINGLY fast in light air - I really hate to motor ANY boat - and it is easier to reef a main than change headsails. Jerry - you flatter me with gracious commentary - I know just enough to make an A-1 ass of myself - and I do have that perfected! Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO That is my opinion - and it is right! In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:27:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes: More market research! The 16 project is well under way; the design has been sent off for approval, and as soon as I get it I'll start on the tooling. In the meantime, there are more things to be considered so that decisions can be made when appropriate. I don't mean to be a pest, but I'd like to lean on your valuable opinions for more market research. Basically what we have so far is a boat of 16'6" and a beam of 6.6', and a tall 7/8 rig. Closer to the 17 in size than it is the 15. We have worked out the sitting headroom below that seems to be the major criticism of the 15. I'm quite happy that the buyer of this design and I see eye-to- eye on pretty much everything (so far), and what we both want is a fast, seaworthy boat (actually, what I want is a fast, seaworthy boat, and what he wants is a seaworthy, fast boat) and that within reason cost is not a major consideration . In manufacturing, we plan to use more exotic materials and better engineering than anything else on the market. As many of you know I've made most of my living for the last 6 or 8 years designing and tooling what is probably the best line of racing kayaks and outrigger canoes in the world, and I've been forced to stay on the leading edge in using up-to-date materials and techniques, as well as design. Huki's (A Hawaiian word meaning GO ; jawsee Huki.com) most popular and successful surfski (offshore racing kayak) is 22' long and weighs under 20 lbs! They are raced inter-island in Hawaii, all over San Francisco Bay, around Catalina Isl, etc, and the boat is NOT the weak link when it comes to survival. They are totally capable of handling 10' and 12' waves with the correct paddler, which is not me ! I just realized that this really sounds like a marketing come-on , but it's really not and is more a reflection of my enthusiasm. Questions: The cabin, which fits in with the forward hatch. I have drawn the boat with a "Montgomery style" house similar to the existing 15 and 17. A problem is that there is not room for a "real" forward hatch unless we go to a trunk house type of cabin , with a traditional, more vertical forward panel. This will give us another 4 or 6" of cabin deck space in front of the mast, enough for a fwd hatch, without encroaching on the foredeck. How do you feel about this? Is the forward hatch worth a Hess style house? The only disadvantage of a trunk house is a bit more windage sailing upwind, which is drag. I can live with it and I wonder if some might prefer it. It also has a bit more headroom sitting on the head. Windows. What percentage of you would like the option of opening ports? All the ones I've seen on the market ( and I really haven't paid much attention for years) are pretty traditional and would go well with a trunk house. If we picked a good opening window we would probably design a non-opening port to go with it as standard equipment. In any case we would need to use two windows per side to leave the middle part of the sides of the house uncut, for strength. Any thoughts on this? Personally I'd opt for no fwd hatch, and use a dorade vent which works for me because of where I sail, but I realize that most of you do not sail in CA and Mexico. Also, the slap slap of anchoring stern-to doesn't really bother me when I sleep. I just pretend it's Mom's heartbeat. This is a subtle thing but an ongoing discussion is just where do we put the line on stability versus speed? I have always preferred the tall rig 17 to the normal one because it has a touch more speed. Yes, it has to reef or downshift the jib a bit earlier, but so what? If you sail in an area where it blows 20 regularly I would expect you to feel differently, but how many of us do? I would rather have a spirited boat in the light stuff, but I realize this is just me. With most any fractional rig it works best to go to a smaller headsail before reefing the main, mostly for the sake of forestay tension, but it's not a big deal unless you want to win a race. You 15 owners- would you rather have a bit more ballast and not have the boat quite as lively in the light stuff, or is it about right? How about the 17? How often do you wish you had a tall rig? Gary O, who is as knowledgeable as I, blew the mast on his 17 and had worn out sails, and he replaced the rig with a tall rig. How many of you would do this if fSaced with the same situation? The 15 and the 17 have earned their reputations in three ways; they are well built, they are seaworthy, and they are remarkably fast for their lengths. I really expect to make the 16 as fast as a 17 because of up-to-date design and technology, but it must also be as stable and seaworthy. I have had the thought before that I'd take a 15 anywhere I would a 17, and the new boat needs to be included in this. Any comments? jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Jerry, Since things are moving along quite nicely with the new 16.5 M-boat, I thought you might wish to consider the next steps, Marketing!!! I'm sure you would like to market this new product from coast to coast.? It just so happens I live on the east coast in Maryland.?? If you provide?a new boat?specially outfitted with company logo and signage (think NASCAR), I would be more than willing to sail this boat?each weekend along the Mid-Atlantic water ways singing your praises!!!???I wouldn't even charge you for my time.? I'm a generous person who prides himself on helping others succeed.? I'm unselfish in that way.? If you put the word out on the MSOG listserv, I'm sure you can get others?to help out.? Sean, of Dauntless?fame, could cover?Nevada, Utah and New Mexico region.? GO can handle the Great Lake region, and?Captain Jim of?Pelican fame can handle Florida and the Gulf Coast Region.? Hey,?maybe?you can convince Doug Kelch of "Seas the Day" fame to handle?special modifications for the east coast region?? The possibilities are endless. Thanks for your consideration, Skip Campion Mid-Atlantic Marketing Director P.S. If you?think this is just a cheesy ploy to get a free boat and have an excuse to go sailing every weekend, well.................. ?? -----Original Message----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:08 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research! 1.Montgomery type house. Trunk house may tend towards looking stubby 2. Opening ports leak - no thank you - deckplate type vent is interchangeable and seals tightly. Opening ports have smaller lights for given area - less light below. 3.Big rig - 'plastic spars' ??? PS - the main reason I changed to a tall rig is that I was able to compare them side by side - the tall rig is BLISTERINGLY fast in light air - I really hate to motor ANY boat - and it is easier to reef a main than change headsails. Jerry - you flatter me with gracious commentary - I know just enough to make an A-1 ass of myself - and I do have that perfected! Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO That is my opinion - and it is right! In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:27:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes: More market research! The 16 project is well under way; the design has been sent off for approval, and as soon as I get it I'll start on the tooling. In the meantime, there are more things to be considered so that decisions can be made when appropriate. I don't mean to be a pest, but I'd like to lean on your valuable opinions for more market research. Basically what we have so far is a boat of 16'6" and a beam of 6.6', and a tall 7/8 rig. Closer to the 17 in size than it is the 15. We have worked out the sitting headroom below that seems to be the major criticism of the 15. I'm quite happy that the buyer of this design and I see eye-to- eye on pretty much everything (so far), and what we both want is a fast, seaworthy boat (actually, what I want is a fast, seaworthy boat, and what he wants is a seaworthy, fast boat) and that within reason cost is not a major consideration . In manufacturing, we plan to use more exotic materials and better engineering than anything else on the market. As many of you know I've made most of my living for the last 6 or 8 years designing and tooling what is probably the best line of racing kayaks and outrigge r canoes in the world, and I've been forced to stay on the leading edge in using up-to-date materials and techniques, as well as design. Huki's (A Hawaiian word meaning GO ; jawsee Huki.com) most popular and successful surfski (offshore racing kayak) is 22' long and weighs under 20 lbs! They are raced inter-island in Hawaii, all over San Francisco Bay, around Catalina Isl, etc, and the boat is NOT the weak link when it comes to survival. They are totally capable of handling 10' and 12' waves with the correct paddler, which is not me ! I just realized that this really sounds like a marketing come-on , but it's really not and is more a reflection of my enthusiasm. Questions: The cabin, which fits in with the forward hatch. I have drawn the boat with a "Montgomery style" house similar to the existing 15 and 17. A problem is that there is not room for a "real" forward hatch unless we go to a trunk house type of cabin , with a traditional, more vertical forward panel. This will give us another 4 or 6" of cabin deck space in front of the mast, enough for a fwd hatch, without encroaching on the foredeck. How do you feel about this? Is the forward hatch worth a Hess style house? The only disadvantage of a trunk house is a bit more windage sailing upwind, which is drag. I can live with it and I wonder if some might prefer it. It also has a bit more headroom sitting on the head. Windows. What percentage of you would like the option of opening ports? All the ones I've seen on the market ( and I really haven't paid much attention for years) are pretty traditional and would go well with a trunk house. If we picked a good opening window we would probably design a non-opening port to go with it as standard equipment. In any case we would need to use two windows per side to leave the middle part of the sides of the house uncut, for strength. Any thoughts on this? Personally I'd opt for no fwd hatch, and use a dorade vent which works for me bec ause of where I sail, but I realize that most of you do not sail in CA and Mexico. Also, the slap slap of anchoring stern-to doesn't really bother me when I sleep. I just pretend it's Mom's heartbeat. This is a subtle thing but an ongoing discussion is just where do we put the line on stability versus speed? I have always preferred the tall rig 17 to the normal one because it has a touch more speed. Yes, it has to reef or downshift the jib a bit earlier, but so what? If you sail in an area where it blows 20 regularly I would expect you to feel differently, but how many of us do? I would rather have a spirited boat in the light stuff, but I realize this is just me. With most any fractional rig it works best to go to a smaller headsail before reefing the main, mostly for the sake of forestay tension, but it's not a big deal unless you want to win a race. You 15 owners- would you rather have a bit more ballast and not have the boat quite as lively in the light stuff, or is it about right? How about the 17? How often do you wish you had a tall rig? Gary O, who is as knowledgeable as I, blew the mast on his 17 and had worn out sails, and he replaced the rig with a tall rig. How many of you would do this if fSaced with the same situation? The 15 and the 17 have earned their reputations in three ways; they are well built, they are seaworthy, and they are remarkably fast for their lengths. I really expect to make the 16 as fast as a 17 because of up-to-date design and technology, but it must also be as stable and seaworthy. I have had the thought before that I'd take a 15 anywhere I would a 17, and the new boat needs to be included in this. Any comments? jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery _boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
I'll graciously volunteer for the SF Bay area weekend shift. On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:18 PM, wcampion@aol.com wrote:
Jerry,
Since things are moving along quite nicely with the new 16.5 M- boat, I thought you might wish to consider the next steps, Marketing!!!
I'm sure you would like to market this new product from coast to coast.? It just so happens I live on the east coast in Maryland.?? If you provide?a new boat?specially outfitted with company logo and signage (think NASCAR), I would be more than willing to sail this boat?each weekend along the Mid-Atlantic water ways singing your praises!!!???I wouldn't even charge you for my time.? I'm a generous person who prides himself on helping others succeed.? I'm unselfish in that way.? If you put the word out on the MSOG listserv, I'm sure you can get others?to help out.? Sean, of Dauntless?fame, could cover?Nevada, Utah and New Mexico region.? GO can handle the Great Lake region, and?Captain Jim of?Pelican fame can handle Florida and the Gulf Coast Region.? Hey,?maybe?you can convince Doug Kelch of "Seas the Day" fame to handle?special modifications for the east coast region?? The possibilities are endless.
Thanks for your consideration, Skip Campion Mid-Atlantic Marketing Director
P.S. If you?think this is just a cheesy ploy to get a free boat and have an excuse to go sailing every weekend, well..................
??
-----Original Message----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:08 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
1.Montgomery type house. Trunk house may tend towards looking stubby 2. Opening ports leak - no thank you - deckplate type vent is interchangeable and seals tightly. Opening ports have smaller lights for given area - less light below. 3.Big rig - 'plastic spars' ???
PS - the main reason I changed to a tall rig is that I was able to compare them side by side - the tall rig is BLISTERINGLY fast in light air - I really hate to motor ANY boat - and it is easier to reef a main than change headsails. Jerry - you flatter me with gracious commentary - I know just enough to make an A-1 ass of myself - and I do have that perfected!
Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO That is my opinion - and it is right!
In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:27:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
More market research!
The 16 project is well under way; the design has been sent off for approval, and as soon as I get it I'll start on the tooling. In the meantime, there are more things to be considered so that decisions can be made when appropriate. I don't mean to be a pest, but I'd like to lean on your valuable opinions for more market research. Basically what we have so far is
a boat of 16'6" and a beam of 6.6', and a tall 7/8 rig. Closer to the 17 in size than it is the 15. We have worked out the sitting headroom below that seems to be the major criticism of the 15.
I'm quite happy that the buyer of this design and I see eye-to- eye on pretty much everything (so far), and what we both want is a fast, seaworthy boat (actually, what I want is a fast, seaworthy boat, and what he wants is a seaworthy, fast boat) and that within reason cost is not a major consideration . In manufacturing, we plan to use more exotic materials and better engineering than anything else on the market. As many of you know I've made most of my living for the last 6 or 8 years designing and tooling what is probably the best line of racing kayaks and outrigge r canoes in the world, and I've been forced to stay on the leading edge in using up-to-date materials and techniques, as well as design. Huki's (A Hawaiian word
meaning GO ; jawsee Huki.com) most popular and successful surfski (offshore racing kayak) is 22' long and weighs under 20 lbs! They are raced inter-island in Hawaii, all over San Francisco Bay, around Catalina Isl, etc, and the boat is NOT the weak link when it comes to survival. They are totally capable of handling 10' and 12' waves with the correct paddler, which is not me !
I just realized that this really sounds like a marketing come-on , but it's really not and is more a reflection of my enthusiasm.
Questions:
The cabin, which fits in with the forward hatch. I have drawn the boat with a "Montgomery style" house similar to the existing 15 and 17. A problem is that there is not room for a "real" forward hatch unless we go to a trunk house type of cabin , with a traditional, more vertical forward panel. This will give us another 4 or 6" of cabin deck space in front of the mast, enough for a fwd hatch, without encroaching on the foredeck. How do you feel about this? Is the forward hatch worth a Hess style house? The only disadvantage of a trunk house is a bit more windage sailing upwind, which is drag. I can live with it and I wonder if some might prefer it. It also has a bit more headroom sitting on the head.
Windows. What percentage of you would like the option of opening ports? All the ones I've seen on the market ( and I really haven't paid much attention for years) are pretty traditional and would go well with a trunk house. If we picked a good opening window we would probably design a non-opening port to go with it as standard equipment. In any case we would need to use two windows per side to leave the middle part of the sides of the house uncut, for strength. Any thoughts on this? Personally I'd opt for no fwd hatch, and use a dorade vent which works for me bec ause of where I sail, but I realize that most of you do not sail in CA and Mexico. Also, the slap slap of anchoring stern-to doesn't really bother me when I sleep. I just pretend it's Mom's heartbeat.
This is a subtle thing but an ongoing discussion is just where do we put the line on stability versus speed? I have always preferred the tall rig 17 to the normal one because it has a touch more speed. Yes, it has to reef or downshift the jib a bit earlier, but so what? If you sail in an area where it blows 20 regularly I would expect you to feel differently, but how many of us do? I would rather have a spirited boat in the light stuff, but I realize this is just me. With most any fractional rig it works best to go to a smaller headsail before reefing the main, mostly for the sake of forestay tension, but it's not a big deal unless you want to win a race. You 15 owners- would you rather have a bit more ballast and not have the boat quite as lively in the light stuff, or is it about right? How about the 17? How often do you wish you had a tall rig? Gary O, who is as knowledgeable as I, blew the mast on his 17 and had worn out sails, and he replaced the rig with a tall rig. How many of you would do this if fSaced with the same situation? The 15 and the 17 have earned their reputations in three ways; they are well built, they are seaworthy, and they are remarkably fast for their lengths. I really expect to make the 16 as fast as a 17 because of up-to-date design and technology, but it must also be as stable and seaworthy. I have had the thought before that I'd take a 15 anywhere I would a 17, and the new boat needs to be included in this. Any comments?
jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery _boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
I'll have nothing to do with the marketing- than k God! Ain't my job. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Poulakis" <picfo@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:32 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll graciously volunteer for the SF Bay area weekend shift.
On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:18 PM, wcampion@aol.com wrote:
Jerry,
Since things are moving along quite nicely with the new 16.5 M- boat, I thought you might wish to consider the next steps, Marketing!!!
I'm sure you would like to market this new product from coast to coast.? It just so happens I live on the east coast in Maryland.?? If you provide?a new boat?specially outfitted with company logo and signage (think NASCAR), I would be more than willing to sail this boat?each weekend along the Mid-Atlantic water ways singing your praises!!!???I wouldn't even charge you for my time.? I'm a generous person who prides himself on helping others succeed.? I'm unselfish in that way.? If you put the word out on the MSOG listserv, I'm sure you can get others?to help out.? Sean, of Dauntless?fame, could cover?Nevada, Utah and New Mexico region.? GO can handle the Great Lake region, and?Captain Jim of?Pelican fame can handle Florida and the Gulf Coast Region.? Hey,?maybe?you can convince Doug Kelch of "Seas the Day" fame to handle?special modifications for the east coast region?? The possibilities are endless.
Thanks for your consideration, Skip Campion Mid-Atlantic Marketing Director
P.S. If you?think this is just a cheesy ploy to get a free boat and have an excuse to go sailing every weekend, well..................
??
-----Original Message----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:08 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
1.Montgomery type house. Trunk house may tend towards looking stubby 2. Opening ports leak - no thank you - deckplate type vent is interchangeable and seals tightly. Opening ports have smaller lights for given area - less light below. 3.Big rig - 'plastic spars' ???
PS - the main reason I changed to a tall rig is that I was able to compare them side by side - the tall rig is BLISTERINGLY fast in light air - I really hate to motor ANY boat - and it is easier to reef a main than change headsails. Jerry - you flatter me with gracious commentary - I know just enough to make an A-1 ass of myself - and I do have that perfected!
Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO That is my opinion - and it is right!
In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:27:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
More market research!
The 16 project is well under way; the design has been sent off for approval, and as soon as I get it I'll start on the tooling. In the meantime, there are more things to be considered so that decisions can be made when appropriate. I don't mean to be a pest, but I'd like to lean on your valuable opinions for more market research. Basically what we have so far is
a boat of 16'6" and a beam of 6.6', and a tall 7/8 rig. Closer to the 17 in size than it is the 15. We have worked out the sitting headroom below that seems to be the major criticism of the 15.
I'm quite happy that the buyer of this design and I see eye-to- eye on pretty much everything (so far), and what we both want is a fast, seaworthy boat (actually, what I want is a fast, seaworthy boat, and what he wants is a seaworthy, fast boat) and that within reason cost is not a major consideration . In manufacturing, we plan to use more exotic materials and better engineering than anything else on the market. As many of you know I've made most of my living for the last 6 or 8 years designing and tooling what is probably the best line of racing kayaks and outrigge r canoes in the world, and I've been forced to stay on the leading edge in using up-to-date materials and techniques, as well as design. Huki's (A Hawaiian word
meaning GO ; jawsee Huki.com) most popular and successful surfski (offshore racing kayak) is 22' long and weighs under 20 lbs! They are raced inter-island in Hawaii, all over San Francisco Bay, around Catalina Isl, etc, and the boat is NOT the weak link when it comes to survival. They are totally capable of handling 10' and 12' waves with the correct paddler, which is not me !
I just realized that this really sounds like a marketing come-on , but it's really not and is more a reflection of my enthusiasm.
Questions:
The cabin, which fits in with the forward hatch. I have drawn the boat with a "Montgomery style" house similar to the existing 15 and 17. A problem is that there is not room for a "real" forward hatch unless we go to a trunk house type of cabin , with a traditional, more vertical forward panel. This will give us another 4 or 6" of cabin deck space in front of the mast, enough for a fwd hatch, without encroaching on the foredeck. How do you feel about this? Is the forward hatch worth a Hess style house? The only disadvantage of a trunk house is a bit more windage sailing upwind, which is drag. I can live with it and I wonder if some might prefer it. It also has a bit more headroom sitting on the head.
Windows. What percentage of you would like the option of opening ports? All the ones I've seen on the market ( and I really haven't paid much attention for years) are pretty traditional and would go well with a trunk house. If we picked a good opening window we would probably design a non-opening port to go with it as standard equipment. In any case we would need to use two windows per side to leave the middle part of the sides of the house uncut, for strength. Any thoughts on this? Personally I'd opt for no fwd hatch, and use a dorade vent which works for me bec ause of where I sail, but I realize that most of you do not sail in CA and Mexico. Also, the slap slap of anchoring stern-to doesn't really bother me when I sleep. I just pretend it's Mom's heartbeat.
This is a subtle thing but an ongoing discussion is just where do we put the line on stability versus speed? I have always preferred the tall rig 17 to the normal one because it has a touch more speed. Yes, it has to reef or downshift the jib a bit earlier, but so what? If you sail in an area where it blows 20 regularly I would expect you to feel differently, but how many of us do? I would rather have a spirited boat in the light stuff, but I realize this is just me. With most any fractional rig it works best to go to a smaller headsail before reefing the main, mostly for the sake of forestay tension, but it's not a big deal unless you want to win a race. You 15 owners- would you rather have a bit more ballast and not have the boat quite as lively in the light stuff, or is it about right? How about the 17? How often do you wish you had a tall rig? Gary O, who is as knowledgeable as I, blew the mast on his 17 and had worn out sails, and he replaced the rig with a tall rig. How many of you would do this if fSaced with the same situation? The 15 and the 17 have earned their reputations in three ways; they are well built, they are seaworthy, and they are remarkably fast for their lengths. I really expect to make the 16 as fast as a 17 because of up-to-date design and technology, but it must also be as stable and seaworthy. I have had the thought before that I'd take a 15 anywhere I would a 17, and the new boat needs to be included in this. Any comments?
jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery _boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hey Jerry What are your thoughts on including a deploy able bowsprit?? It would be a sweet gadget to have on the new boat, No messing with the pole when short handed or single handed sailing. AND! It would look so cool with the lapstrake hull, A nice mix of old world sailing and modern sailing technology. I also want to cast in my vote here for the Tall rig, as well as a full battened main as standard equipment.And in MY dreams a carbon fiber mast Sweeeeeet!!!!!!! While yer add it, How about a Melges style Bulb keel set-up. Mark E M17F/D #103 AMY ________________________________ From: jerry <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:43:25 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research! I'll have nothing to do with the marketing- than k God! Ain't my job. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Poulakis" <picfo@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:32 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll graciously volunteer for the SF Bay area weekend shift.
On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:18 PM, wcampion@aol.com wrote:
Jerry,
Since things are moving along quite nicely with the new 16.5 M- boat, I thought you might wish to consider the next steps, Marketing!!!
I'm sure you would like to market this new product from coast to coast.? It just so happens I live on the east coast in Maryland.?? If you provide?a new boat?specially outfitted with company logo and signage (think NASCAR), I would be more than willing to sail this boat?each weekend along the Mid-Atlantic water ways singing your praises!!!???I wouldn't even charge you for my time.? I'm a generous person who prides himself on helping others succeed.? I'm unselfish in that way.? If you put the word out on the MSOG listserv, I'm sure you can get others?to help out.? Sean, of Dauntless?fame, could cover?Nevada, Utah and New Mexico region.? GO can handle the Great Lake region, and?Captain Jim of?Pelican fame can handle Florida and the Gulf Coast Region.? Hey,?maybe?you can convince Doug Kelch of "Seas the Day" fame to handle?special modifications for the east coast region?? The possibilities are endless.
Thanks for your consideration, Skip Campion Mid-Atlantic Marketing Director
P.S. If you?think this is just a cheesy ploy to get a free boat and have an excuse to go sailing every weekend, well..................
??
-----Original Message----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:08 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
1.Montgomery type house. Trunk house may tend towards looking stubby 2. Opening ports leak - no thank you - deckplate type vent is interchangeable and seals tightly. Opening ports have smaller lights for given area - less light below. 3.Big rig - 'plastic spars' ???
PS - the main reason I changed to a tall rig is that I was able to compare them side by side - the tall rig is BLISTERINGLY fast in light air - I really hate to motor ANY boat - and it is easier to reef a main than change headsails. Jerry - you flatter me with gracious commentary - I know just enough to make an A-1 ass of myself - and I do have that perfected!
Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO That is my opinion - and it is right!
In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:27:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
More market research!
The 16 project is well under way; the design has been sent off for approval, and as soon as I get it I'll start on the tooling. In the meantime, there are more things to be considered so that decisions can be made when appropriate. I don't mean to be a pest, but I'd like to lean on your valuable opinions for more market research. Basically what we have so far is
a boat of 16'6" and a beam of 6.6', and a tall 7/8 rig. Closer to the 17 in size than it is the 15. We have worked out the sitting headroom below that seems to be the major criticism of the 15.
I'm quite happy that the buyer of this design and I see eye-to- eye on pretty much everything (so far), and what we both want is a fast, seaworthy boat (actually, what I want is a fast, seaworthy boat, and what he wants is a seaworthy, fast boat) and that within reason cost is not a major consideration . In manufacturing, we plan to use more exotic materials and better engineering than anything else on the market. As many of you know I've made most of my living for the last 6 or 8 years designing and tooling what is probably the best line of racing kayaks and outrigge r canoes in the world, and I've been forced to stay on the leading edge in using up-to-date materials and techniques, as well as design. Huki's (A Hawaiian word
meaning GO ; jawsee Huki.com) most popular and successful surfski (offshore racing kayak) is 22' long and weighs under 20 lbs! They are raced inter-island in Hawaii, all over San Francisco Bay, around Catalina Isl, etc, and the boat is NOT the weak link when it comes to survival. They are totally capable of handling 10' and 12' waves with the correct paddler, which is not me !
I just realized that this really sounds like a marketing come-on , but it's really not and is more a reflection of my enthusiasm.
Questions:
The cabin, which fits in with the forward hatch. I have drawn the boat with a "Montgomery style" house similar to the existing 15 and 17. A problem is that there is not room for a "real" forward hatch unless we go to a trunk house type of cabin , with a traditional, more vertical forward panel. This will give us another 4 or 6" of cabin deck space in front of the mast, enough for a fwd hatch, without encroaching on the foredeck. How do you feel about this? Is the forward hatch worth a Hess style house? The only disadvantage of a trunk house is a bit more windage sailing upwind, which is drag. I can live with it and I wonder if some might prefer it. It also has a bit more headroom sitting on the head.
Windows. What percentage of you would like the option of opening ports? All the ones I've seen on the market ( and I really haven't paid much attention for years) are pretty traditional and would go well with a trunk house. If we picked a good opening window we would probably design a non-opening port to go with it as standard equipment. In any case we would need to use two windows per side to leave the middle part of the sides of the house uncut, for strength. Any thoughts on this? Personally I'd opt for no fwd hatch, and use a dorade vent which works for me bec ause of where I sail, but I realize that most of you do not sail in CA and Mexico. Also, the slap slap of anchoring stern-to doesn't really bother me when I sleep. I just pretend it's Mom's heartbeat.
This is a subtle thing but an ongoing discussion is just where do we put the line on stability versus speed? I have always preferred the tall rig 17 to the normal one because it has a touch more speed. Yes, it has to reef or downshift the jib a bit earlier, but so what? If you sail in an area where it blows 20 regularly I would expect you to feel differently, but how many of us do? I would rather have a spirited boat in the light stuff, but I realize this is just me. With most any fractional rig it works best to go to a smaller headsail before reefing the main, mostly for the sake of forestay tension, but it's not a big deal unless you want to win a race. You 15 owners- would you rather have a bit more ballast and not have the boat quite as lively in the light stuff, or is it about right? How about the 17? How often do you wish you had a tall rig? Gary O, who is as knowledgeable as I, blew the mast on his 17 and had worn out sails, and he replaced the rig with a tall rig. How many of you would do this if fSaced with the same situation? The 15 and the 17 have earned their reputations in three ways; they are well built, they are seaworthy, and they are remarkably fast for their lengths. I really expect to make the 16 as fast as a 17 because of up-to-date design and technology, but it must also be as stable and seaworthy. I have had the thought before that I'd take a 15 anywhere I would a 17, and the new boat needs to be included in this. Any comments?
jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery _boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hey- you're starting to sound like you're talking about an all-out performance boat, like some of them good guys sail! Try it on your flush deck and report back! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Escovedo" <m17flushdeck_amy@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M_Boats market research! Bowsprit????
Hey Jerry What are your thoughts on including a deploy able bowsprit?? It would be a sweet gadget to have on the new boat, No messing with the pole when short handed or single handed sailing. AND! It would look so cool with the lapstrake hull, A nice mix of old world sailing and modern sailing technology. I also want to cast in my vote here for the Tall rig, as well as a full battened main as standard equipment.And in MY dreams a carbon fiber mast Sweeeeeet!!!!!!! While yer add it, How about a Melges style Bulb keel set-up.
Mark E M17F/D #103 AMY
________________________________ From: jerry <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:43:25 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll have nothing to do with the marketing- than k God! Ain't my job.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Poulakis" <picfo@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:32 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll graciously volunteer for the SF Bay area weekend shift.
On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:18 PM, wcampion@aol.com wrote:
Jerry,
Since things are moving along quite nicely with the new 16.5 M- boat, I thought you might wish to consider the next steps, Marketing!!!
I'm sure you would like to market this new product from coast to coast.? It just so happens I live on the east coast in Maryland.?? If you provide?a new boat?specially outfitted with company logo and signage (think NASCAR), I would be more than willing to sail this boat?each weekend along the Mid-Atlantic water ways singing your praises!!!???I wouldn't even charge you for my time.? I'm a generous person who prides himself on helping others succeed.? I'm unselfish in that way.? If you put the word out on the MSOG listserv, I'm sure you can get others?to help out.? Sean, of Dauntless?fame, could cover?Nevada, Utah and New Mexico region.? GO can handle the Great Lake region, and?Captain Jim of?Pelican fame can handle Florida and the Gulf Coast Region.? Hey,?maybe?you can convince Doug Kelch of "Seas the Day" fame to handle?special modifications for the east coast region?? The possibilities are endless.
Thanks for your consideration, Skip Campion Mid-Atlantic Marketing Director
P.S. If you?think this is just a cheesy ploy to get a free boat and have an excuse to go sailing every weekend, well..................
??
-----Original Message----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:08 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
1.Montgomery type house. Trunk house may tend towards looking stubby 2. Opening ports leak - no thank you - deckplate type vent is interchangeable and seals tightly. Opening ports have smaller lights for given area - less light below. 3.Big rig - 'plastic spars' ???
PS - the main reason I changed to a tall rig is that I was able to compare them side by side - the tall rig is BLISTERINGLY fast in light air - I really hate to motor ANY boat - and it is easier to reef a main than change headsails. Jerry - you flatter me with gracious commentary - I know just enough to make an A-1 ass of myself - and I do have that perfected!
Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO That is my opinion - and it is right!
In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:27:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
More market research!
The 16 project is well under way; the design has been sent off for approval, and as soon as I get it I'll start on the tooling. In the meantime, there are more things to be considered so that decisions can be made when appropriate. I don't mean to be a pest, but I'd like to lean on your valuable opinions for more market research. Basically what we have so far is
a boat of 16'6" and a beam of 6.6', and a tall 7/8 rig. Closer to the 17 in size than it is the 15. We have worked out the sitting headroom below that seems to be the major criticism of the 15.
I'm quite happy that the buyer of this design and I see eye-to- eye on pretty much everything (so far), and what we both want is a fast, seaworthy boat (actually, what I want is a fast, seaworthy boat, and what he wants is a seaworthy, fast boat) and that within reason cost is not a major consideration . In manufacturing, we plan to use more exotic materials and better engineering than anything else on the market. As many of you know I've made most of my living for the last 6 or 8 years designing and tooling what is probably the best line of racing kayaks and outrigge r canoes in the world, and I've been forced to stay on the leading edge in using up-to-date materials and techniques, as well as design. Huki's (A Hawaiian word
meaning GO ; jawsee Huki.com) most popular and successful surfski (offshore racing kayak) is 22' long and weighs under 20 lbs! They are raced inter-island in Hawaii, all over San Francisco Bay, around Catalina Isl, etc, and the boat is NOT the weak link when it comes to survival. They are totally capable of handling 10' and 12' waves with the correct paddler, which is not me !
I just realized that this really sounds like a marketing come-on , but it's really not and is more a reflection of my enthusiasm.
Questions:
The cabin, which fits in with the forward hatch. I have drawn the boat with a "Montgomery style" house similar to the existing 15 and 17. A problem is that there is not room for a "real" forward hatch unless we go to a trunk house type of cabin , with a traditional, more vertical forward panel. This will give us another 4 or 6" of cabin deck space in front of the mast, enough for a fwd hatch, without encroaching on the foredeck. How do you feel about this? Is the forward hatch worth a Hess style house? The only disadvantage of a trunk house is a bit more windage sailing upwind, which is drag. I can live with it and I wonder if some might prefer it. It also has a bit more headroom sitting on the head.
Windows. What percentage of you would like the option of opening ports? All the ones I've seen on the market ( and I really haven't paid much attention for years) are pretty traditional and would go well with a trunk house. If we picked a good opening window we would probably design a non-opening port to go with it as standard equipment. In any case we would need to use two windows per side to leave the middle part of the sides of the house uncut, for strength. Any thoughts on this? Personally I'd opt for no fwd hatch, and use a dorade vent which works for me bec ause of where I sail, but I realize that most of you do not sail in CA and Mexico. Also, the slap slap of anchoring stern-to doesn't really bother me when I sleep. I just pretend it's Mom's heartbeat.
This is a subtle thing but an ongoing discussion is just where do we put the line on stability versus speed? I have always preferred the tall rig 17 to the normal one because it has a touch more speed. Yes, it has to reef or downshift the jib a bit earlier, but so what? If you sail in an area where it blows 20 regularly I would expect you to feel differently, but how many of us do? I would rather have a spirited boat in the light stuff, but I realize this is just me. With most any fractional rig it works best to go to a smaller headsail before reefing the main, mostly for the sake of forestay tension, but it's not a big deal unless you want to win a race. You 15 owners- would you rather have a bit more ballast and not have the boat quite as lively in the light stuff, or is it about right? How about the 17? How often do you wish you had a tall rig? Gary O, who is as knowledgeable as I, blew the mast on his 17 and had worn out sails, and he replaced the rig with a tall rig. How many of you would do this if fSaced with the same situation? The 15 and the 17 have earned their reputations in three ways; they are well built, they are seaworthy, and they are remarkably fast for their lengths. I really expect to make the 16 as fast as a 17 because of up-to-date design and technology, but it must also be as stable and seaworthy. I have had the thought before that I'd take a 15 anywhere I would a 17, and the new boat needs to be included in this. Any comments?
jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery _boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Jerry!!! Jerry!!! Now we're on to something! An "all out performance boat" that looks like a family cruiser. The M-16.5 could pay for itself by racing for pink slips on Friday nights! -Name Withheld by Request- On Aug 10, 2009, at 4:40 PM, jerry wrote:
Hey- you're starting to sound like you're talking about an all-out performance boat, like some of them good guys sail! Try it on your flush deck and report back!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Escovedo" <m17flushdeck_amy@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M_Boats market research! Bowsprit????
Hey Jerry What are your thoughts on including a deploy able bowsprit?? It would be a sweet gadget to have on the new boat, No messing with the pole when short handed or single handed sailing. AND! It would look so cool with the lapstrake hull, A nice mix of old world sailing and modern sailing technology. I also want to cast in my vote here for the Tall rig, as well as a full battened main as standard equipment.And in MY dreams a carbon fiber mast Sweeeeeet!!!!!!! While yer add it, How about a Melges style Bulb keel set-up.
Mark E M17F/D #103 AMY
________________________________ From: jerry <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:43:25 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll have nothing to do with the marketing- than k God! Ain't my job.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Poulakis" <picfo@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:32 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll graciously volunteer for the SF Bay area weekend shift.
On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:18 PM, wcampion@aol.com wrote:
Jerry,
Since things are moving along quite nicely with the new 16.5 M- boat, I thought you might wish to consider the next steps, Marketing!!!
I'm sure you would like to market this new product from coast to coast.? It just so happens I live on the east coast in Maryland.?? If you provide?a new boat?specially outfitted with company logo and signage (think NASCAR), I would be more than willing to sail this boat?each weekend along the Mid-Atlantic water ways singing your praises!!!???I wouldn't even charge you for my time.? I'm a generous person who prides himself on helping others succeed.? I'm unselfish in that way.? If you put the word out on the MSOG listserv, I'm sure you can get others? to help out.? Sean, of Dauntless?fame, could cover?Nevada, Utah and New Mexico region.? GO can handle the Great Lake region, and?Captain Jim of?Pelican fame can handle Florida and the Gulf Coast Region.? Hey,?maybe?you can convince Doug Kelch of "Seas the Day" fame to handle?special modifications for the east coast region?? The possibilities are endless.
Thanks for your consideration, Skip Campion Mid-Atlantic Marketing Director
P.S. If you?think this is just a cheesy ploy to get a free boat and have an excuse to go sailing every weekend, well..................
??
-----Original Message----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:08 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
1.Montgomery type house. Trunk house may tend towards looking stubby 2. Opening ports leak - no thank you - deckplate type vent is interchangeable and seals tightly. Opening ports have smaller lights for given area - less light below. 3.Big rig - 'plastic spars' ???
PS - the main reason I changed to a tall rig is that I was able to compare them side by side - the tall rig is BLISTERINGLY fast in light air - I really hate to motor ANY boat - and it is easier to reef a main than change headsails. Jerry - you flatter me with gracious commentary - I know just enough to make an A-1 ass of myself - and I do have that perfected!
Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO That is my opinion - and it is right!
In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:27:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
More market research!
The 16 project is well under way; the design has been sent off for approval, and as soon as I get it I'll start on the tooling. In the meantime, there are more things to be considered so that decisions can be made when appropriate. I don't mean to be a pest, but I'd like to lean on your valuable opinions for more market research. Basically what we have so far is
a boat of 16'6" and a beam of 6.6', and a tall 7/8 rig. Closer to the 17 in size than it is the 15. We have worked out the sitting headroom below that seems to be the major criticism of the 15.
I'm quite happy that the buyer of this design and I see eye- to- eye on pretty much everything (so far), and what we both want is a fast, seaworthy boat (actually, what I want is a fast, seaworthy boat, and what he wants is a seaworthy, fast boat) and that within reason cost is not a major consideration . In manufacturing, we plan to use more exotic materials and better engineering than anything else on the market. As many of you know I've made most of my living for the last 6 or 8 years designing and tooling what is probably the best line of racing kayaks and outrigge r canoes in the world, and I've been forced to stay on the leading edge in using up-to-date materials and techniques, as well as design. Huki's (A Hawaiian word
meaning GO ; jawsee Huki.com) most popular and successful surfski (offshore racing kayak) is 22' long and weighs under 20 lbs! They are raced inter-island in Hawaii, all over San Francisco Bay, around Catalina Isl, etc, and the boat is NOT the weak link when it comes to survival. They are totally capable of handling 10' and 12' waves with the correct paddler, which is not me !
I just realized that this really sounds like a marketing come- on , but it's really not and is more a reflection of my enthusiasm.
Questions:
The cabin, which fits in with the forward hatch. I have drawn the boat with a "Montgomery style" house similar to the existing 15 and 17. A problem is that there is not room for a "real" forward hatch unless we go to a trunk house type of cabin , with a traditional, more vertical forward panel. This will give us another 4 or 6" of cabin deck space in front of the mast, enough for a fwd hatch, without encroaching on the foredeck. How do you feel about this? Is the forward hatch worth a Hess style house? The only disadvantage of a trunk house is a bit more windage sailing upwind, which is drag. I can live with it and I wonder if some might prefer it. It also has a bit more headroom sitting on the head.
Windows. What percentage of you would like the option of opening ports? All the ones I've seen on the market ( and I really haven't paid much attention for years) are pretty traditional and would go well with a trunk house. If we picked a good opening window we would probably design a non-opening port to go with it as standard equipment. In any case we would need to use two windows per side to leave the middle part of the sides of the house uncut, for strength. Any thoughts on this? Personally I'd opt for no fwd hatch, and use a dorade vent which works for me bec ause of where I sail, but I realize that most of you do not sail in CA and Mexico. Also, the slap slap of anchoring stern-to doesn't really bother me when I sleep. I just pretend it's Mom's heartbeat.
This is a subtle thing but an ongoing discussion is just where do we put the line on stability versus speed? I have always preferred the tall rig 17 to the normal one because it has a touch more speed. Yes, it has to reef or downshift the jib a bit earlier, but so what? If you sail in an area where it blows 20 regularly I would expect you to feel differently, but how many of us do? I would rather have a spirited boat in the light stuff, but I realize this is just me. With most any fractional rig it works best to go to a smaller headsail before reefing the main, mostly for the sake of forestay tension, but it's not a big deal unless you want to win a race. You 15 owners- would you rather have a bit more ballast and not have the boat quite as lively in the light stuff, or is it about right? How about the 17? How often do you wish you had a tall rig? Gary O, who is as knowledgeable as I, blew the mast on his 17 and had worn out sails, and he replaced the rig with a tall rig. How many of you would do this if fSaced with the same situation? The 15 and the 17 have earned their reputations in three ways; they are well built, they are seaworthy, and they are remarkably fast for their lengths. I really expect to make the 16 as fast as a 17 because of up-to-date design and technology, but it must also be as stable and seaworthy. I have had the thought before that I'd take a 15 anywhere I would a 17, and the new boat needs to be included in this. Any comments?
jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery _boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
to boat to race for 'pinks' is the M15 ... folks just don't believe how fast the 15 will go! do even better is talk a few into giving you a few minutes head start 'because you a just a little boat' ... LOL dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA vist SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Mon, 8/10/09, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote: Jerry!!! Jerry!!! Now we're on to something! An "all out performance boat" that looks like a family cruiser. The M-16.5 could pay for itself by racing for pink slips on Friday nights! -Name Withheld by Request- On Aug 10, 2009, at 4:40 PM, jerry wrote:
Hey- you're starting to sound like you're talking about an all-out performance boat, like some of them good guys sail! Try it on your flush deck and report back!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Escovedo" <m17flushdeck_amy@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M_Boats market research! Bowsprit????
Hey Jerry What are your thoughts on including a deploy able bowsprit?? It would be a sweet gadget to have on the new boat, No messing with the pole when short handed or single handed sailing. AND! It would look so cool with the lapstrake hull, A nice mix of old world sailing and modern sailing technology. I also want to cast in my vote here for the Tall rig, as well as a full battened main as standard equipment.And in MY dreams a carbon fiber mast Sweeeeeet!!!!!!! While yer add it, How about a Melges style Bulb keel set-up.
Mark E M17F/D #103 AMY
Durn right! Just got back from sailing in the Apostle Islands, and it was everything I'd dreamed. Man, my M15 can fly with the right sail adjustments! Hull speed be dashed! I got it up to around 6mph according to the GPS, and I know that's not the fastest I've gone! Good work, Jerry. :D On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 7:08 PM, James Poulakis <picfo@comcast.net> wrote:
Jerry!!! Jerry!!!
Now we're on to something! An "all out performance boat" that looks like a family cruiser. The M-16.5 could pay for itself by racing for pink slips on Friday nights!
-Name Withheld by Request-
On Aug 10, 2009, at 4:40 PM, jerry wrote:
Hey- you're starting to sound like you're talking about an all-out
performance boat, like some of them good guys sail! Try it on your flush deck and report back!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Escovedo" < m17flushdeck_amy@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M_Boats market research! Bowsprit????
Hey Jerry
What are your thoughts on including a deploy able bowsprit?? It would be a sweet gadget to have on the new boat, No messing with the pole when short handed or single handed sailing. AND! It would look so cool with the lapstrake hull, A nice mix of old world sailing and modern sailing technology. I also want to cast in my vote here for the Tall rig, as well as a full battened main as standard equipment.And in MY dreams a carbon fiber mast Sweeeeeet!!!!!!! While yer add it, How about a Melges style Bulb keel set-up.
Mark E M17F/D #103 AMY
________________________________ From: jerry <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:43:25 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll have nothing to do with the marketing- than k God! Ain't my job.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Poulakis" <picfo@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:32 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll graciously volunteer for the SF Bay area weekend shift.
On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:18 PM, wcampion@aol.com wrote:
Jerry,
Since things are moving along quite nicely with the new 16.5 M- boat, I thought you might wish to consider the next steps, Marketing!!!
I'm sure you would like to market this new product from coast to coast.? It just so happens I live on the east coast in Maryland.?? If you provide?a new boat?specially outfitted with company logo and signage (think NASCAR), I would be more than willing to sail this boat?each weekend along the Mid-Atlantic water ways singing your praises!!!???I wouldn't even charge you for my time.? I'm a generous person who prides himself on helping others succeed.? I'm unselfish in that way.? If you put the word out on the MSOG listserv, I'm sure you can get others?to help out.? Sean, of Dauntless?fame, could cover?Nevada, Utah and New Mexico region.? GO can handle the Great Lake region, and?Captain Jim of?Pelican fame can handle Florida and the Gulf Coast Region.? Hey,?maybe?you can convince Doug Kelch of "Seas the Day" fame to handle?special modifications for the east coast region?? The possibilities are endless.
Thanks for your consideration, Skip Campion Mid-Atlantic Marketing Director
P.S. If you?think this is just a cheesy ploy to get a free boat and have an excuse to go sailing every weekend, well..................
??
-----Original Message----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:08 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
1.Montgomery type house. Trunk house may tend towards looking stubby 2. Opening ports leak - no thank you - deckplate type vent is interchangeable and seals tightly. Opening ports have smaller lights for given area - less light below. 3.Big rig - 'plastic spars' ???
PS - the main reason I changed to a tall rig is that I was able to compare them side by side - the tall rig is BLISTERINGLY fast in light air - I really hate to motor ANY boat - and it is easier to reef a main than change headsails. Jerry - you flatter me with gracious commentary - I know just enough to make an A-1 ass of myself - and I do have that perfected!
Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO That is my opinion - and it is right!
In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:27:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
More market research!
The 16 project is well under way; the design has been sent off for approval, and as soon as I get it I'll start on the tooling. In the meantime, there are more things to be considered so that decisions can be made when appropriate. I don't mean to be a pest, but I'd like to lean on your valuable opinions for more market research. Basically what we have so far is
a boat of 16'6" and a beam of 6.6', and a tall 7/8 rig. Closer to the 17 in size than it is the 15. We have worked out the sitting headroom below that seems to be the major criticism of the 15.
I'm quite happy that the buyer of this design and I see eye-to- eye on pretty much everything (so far), and what we both want is a fast, seaworthy boat (actually, what I want is a fast, seaworthy boat, and what he wants is a seaworthy, fast boat) and that within reason cost is not a major consideration . In manufacturing, we plan to use more exotic materials and better engineering than anything else on the market. As many of you know I've made most of my living for the last 6 or 8 years designing and tooling what is probably the best line of racing kayaks and outrigge r canoes in the world, and I've been forced to stay on the leading edge in using up-to-date materials and techniques, as well as design. Huki's (A Hawaiian word
meaning GO ; jawsee Huki.com) most popular and successful surfski (offshore racing kayak) is 22' long and weighs under 20 lbs! They are raced inter-island in Hawaii, all over San Francisco Bay, around Catalina Isl, etc, and the boat is NOT the weak link when it comes to survival. They are totally capable of handling 10' and 12' waves with the correct paddler, which is not me !
I just realized that this really sounds like a marketing come-on , but it's really not and is more a reflection of my enthusiasm.
Questions:
The cabin, which fits in with the forward hatch. I have drawn the boat with a "Montgomery style" house similar to the existing 15 and 17. A problem is that there is not room for a "real" forward hatch unless we go to a trunk house type of cabin , with a traditional, more vertical forward panel. This will give us another 4 or 6" of cabin deck space in front of the mast, enough for a fwd hatch, without encroaching on the foredeck. How do you feel about this? Is the forward hatch worth a Hess style house? The only disadvantage of a trunk house is a bit more windage sailing upwind, which is drag. I can live with it and I wonder if some might prefer it. It also has a bit more headroom sitting on the head.
Windows. What percentage of you would like the option of opening ports? All the ones I've seen on the market ( and I really haven't paid much attention for years) are pretty traditional and would go well with a trunk house. If we picked a good opening window we would probably design a non-opening port to go with it as standard equipment. In any case we would need to use two windows per side to leave the middle part of the sides of the house uncut, for strength. Any thoughts on this? Personally I'd opt for no fwd hatch, and use a dorade vent which works for me bec ause of where I sail, but I realize that most of you do not sail in CA and Mexico. Also, the slap slap of anchoring stern-to doesn't really bother me when I sleep. I just pretend it's Mom's heartbeat.
This is a subtle thing but an ongoing discussion is just where do we put the line on stability versus speed? I have always preferred the tall rig 17 to the normal one because it has a touch more speed. Yes, it has to reef or downshift the jib a bit earlier, but so what? If you sail in an area where it blows 20 regularly I would expect you to feel differently, but how many of us do? I would rather have a spirited boat in the light stuff, but I realize this is just me. With most any fractional rig it works best to go to a smaller headsail before reefing the main, mostly for the sake of forestay tension, but it's not a big deal unless you want to win a race. You 15 owners- would you rather have a bit more ballast and not have the boat quite as lively in the light stuff, or is it about right? How about the 17? How often do you wish you had a tall rig? Gary O, who is as knowledgeable as I, blew the mast on his 17 and had worn out sails, and he replaced the rig with a tall rig. How many of you would do this if fSaced with the same situation? The 15 and the 17 have earned their reputations in three ways; they are well built, they are seaworthy, and they are remarkably fast for their lengths. I really expect to make the 16 as fast as a 17 because of up-to-date design and technology, but it must also be as stable and seaworthy. I have had the thought before that I'd take a 15 anywhere I would a 17, and the new boat needs to be included in this. Any comments?
jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery _boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
-- Chris
Jerry! Amy is already sporting the bowsprit! and I'm saving my pennies for the replacement carbon fiber mast (around 4K I figure) As for the keel, unfortunately I can't do any better than my Composite HDPE centerboard modification, with the current hull design. Don't get me wrong! I love my Lil Amy she's spry and a joy to sail :) This jewel is mine for life. Mark E M17F/D #103 AMY ________________________________ From: jerry <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 4:40:07 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M_Boats market research! Bowsprit???? Hey- you're starting to sound like you're talking about an all-out performance boat, like some of them good guys sail! Try it on your flush deck and report back! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Escovedo" <m17flushdeck_amy@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 12:54 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M_Boats market research! Bowsprit????
Hey Jerry What are your thoughts on including a deploy able bowsprit?? It would be a sweet gadget to have on the new boat, No messing with the pole when short handed or single handed sailing. AND! It would look so cool with the lapstrake hull, A nice mix of old world sailing and modern sailing technology. I also want to cast in my vote here for the Tall rig, as well as a full battened main as standard equipment.And in MY dreams a carbon fiber mast Sweeeeeet!!!!!!! While yer add it, How about a Melges style Bulb keel set-up.
Mark E M17F/D #103 AMY
________________________________ From: jerry <jerry@jerrymontgomery.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 10:43:25 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll have nothing to do with the marketing- than k God! Ain't my job.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Poulakis" <picfo@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 9:32 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
I'll graciously volunteer for the SF Bay area weekend shift.
On Aug 8, 2009, at 1:18 PM, wcampion@aol.com wrote:
Jerry,
Since things are moving along quite nicely with the new 16.5 M- boat, I thought you might wish to consider the next steps, Marketing!!!
I'm sure you would like to market this new product from coast to coast.? It just so happens I live on the east coast in Maryland.?? If you provide?a new boat?specially outfitted with company logo and signage (think NASCAR), I would be more than willing to sail this boat?each weekend along the Mid-Atlantic water ways singing your praises!!!???I wouldn't even charge you for my time.? I'm a generous person who prides himself on helping others succeed.? I'm unselfish in that way.? If you put the word out on the MSOG listserv, I'm sure you can get others?to help out.? Sean, of Dauntless?fame, could cover?Nevada, Utah and New Mexico region.? GO can handle the Great Lake region, and?Captain Jim of?Pelican fame can handle Florida and the Gulf Coast Region.? Hey,?maybe?you can convince Doug Kelch of "Seas the Day" fame to handle?special modifications for the east coast region?? The possibilities are endless.
Thanks for your consideration, Skip Campion Mid-Atlantic Marketing Director
P.S. If you?think this is just a cheesy ploy to get a free boat and have an excuse to go sailing every weekend, well..................
??
-----Original Message----- From: GILASAILR@aol.com To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Fri, Aug 7, 2009 3:08 am Subject: Re: M_Boats: more market research!
1.Montgomery type house. Trunk house may tend towards looking stubby 2. Opening ports leak - no thank you - deckplate type vent is interchangeable and seals tightly. Opening ports have smaller lights for given area - less light below. 3.Big rig - 'plastic spars' ???
PS - the main reason I changed to a tall rig is that I was able to compare them side by side - the tall rig is BLISTERINGLY fast in light air - I really hate to motor ANY boat - and it is easier to reef a main than change headsails. Jerry - you flatter me with gracious commentary - I know just enough to make an A-1 ass of myself - and I do have that perfected!
Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing. GO That is my opinion - and it is right!
In a message dated 8/6/2009 3:27:15 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
More market research!
The 16 project is well under way; the design has been sent off for approval, and as soon as I get it I'll start on the tooling. In the meantime, there are more things to be considered so that decisions can be made when appropriate. I don't mean to be a pest, but I'd like to lean on your valuable opinions for more market research. Basically what we have so far is
a boat of 16'6" and a beam of 6.6', and a tall 7/8 rig. Closer to the 17 in size than it is the 15. We have worked out the sitting headroom below that seems to be the major criticism of the 15.
I'm quite happy that the buyer of this design and I see eye-to- eye on pretty much everything (so far), and what we both want is a fast, seaworthy boat (actually, what I want is a fast, seaworthy boat, and what he wants is a seaworthy, fast boat) and that within reason cost is not a major consideration . In manufacturing, we plan to use more exotic materials and better engineering than anything else on the market. As many of you know I've made most of my living for the last 6 or 8 years designing and tooling what is probably the best line of racing kayaks and outrigge r canoes in the world, and I've been forced to stay on the leading edge in using up-to-date materials and techniques, as well as design. Huki's (A Hawaiian word
meaning GO ; jawsee Huki.com) most popular and successful surfski (offshore racing kayak) is 22' long and weighs under 20 lbs! They are raced inter-island in Hawaii, all over San Francisco Bay, around Catalina Isl, etc, and the boat is NOT the weak link when it comes to survival. They are totally capable of handling 10' and 12' waves with the correct paddler, which is not me !
I just realized that this really sounds like a marketing come-on , but it's really not and is more a reflection of my enthusiasm.
Questions:
The cabin, which fits in with the forward hatch. I have drawn the boat with a "Montgomery style" house similar to the existing 15 and 17. A problem is that there is not room for a "real" forward hatch unless we go to a trunk house type of cabin , with a traditional, more vertical forward panel. This will give us another 4 or 6" of cabin deck space in front of the mast, enough for a fwd hatch, without encroaching on the foredeck. How do you feel about this? Is the forward hatch worth a Hess style house? The only disadvantage of a trunk house is a bit more windage sailing upwind, which is drag. I can live with it and I wonder if some might prefer it. It also has a bit more headroom sitting on the head.
Windows. What percentage of you would like the option of opening ports? All the ones I've seen on the market ( and I really haven't paid much attention for years) are pretty traditional and would go well with a trunk house. If we picked a good opening window we would probably design a non-opening port to go with it as standard equipment. In any case we would need to use two windows per side to leave the middle part of the sides of the house uncut, for strength. Any thoughts on this? Personally I'd opt for no fwd hatch, and use a dorade vent which works for me bec ause of where I sail, but I realize that most of you do not sail in CA and Mexico. Also, the slap slap of anchoring stern-to doesn't really bother me when I sleep. I just pretend it's Mom's heartbeat.
This is a subtle thing but an ongoing discussion is just where do we put the line on stability versus speed? I have always preferred the tall rig 17 to the normal one because it has a touch more speed. Yes, it has to reef or downshift the jib a bit earlier, but so what? If you sail in an area where it blows 20 regularly I would expect you to feel differently, but how many of us do? I would rather have a spirited boat in the light stuff, but I realize this is just me. With most any fractional rig it works best to go to a smaller headsail before reefing the main, mostly for the sake of forestay tension, but it's not a big deal unless you want to win a race. You 15 owners- would you rather have a bit more ballast and not have the boat quite as lively in the light stuff, or is it about right? How about the 17? How often do you wish you had a tall rig? Gary O, who is as knowledgeable as I, blew the mast on his 17 and had worn out sails, and he replaced the rig with a tall rig. How many of you would do this if fSaced with the same situation? The 15 and the 17 have earned their reputations in three ways; they are well built, they are seaworthy, and they are remarkably fast for their lengths. I really expect to make the 16 as fast as a 17 because of up-to-date design and technology, but it must also be as stable and seaworthy. I have had the thought before that I'd take a 15 anywhere I would a 17, and the new boat needs to be included in this. Any comments?
jerry _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery _boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Pictures of Mark's M17, Amy, can be seen here: http://www.msogphotosite.com/m17amy.html t
participants (8)
-
Chris Smith -
GILASAILR＠aol.com -
James Poulakis -
jerry -
Mark Escovedo -
Tom Smith -
W David Scobie -
wcampion＠aol.com