Hello M17 sailors, The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy. Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib? As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than finding out the hard way. Thanks in advance for any comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Hello Tom, I can recall at least one time when I should have used my second set of reefpoints and my storm jib. I didn't... it was... mmm... interesting. Ian M-17 Seaweeble
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:26:23 -0700> From: tjenk@gte.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: reefing> > Hello M17 sailors, > > > > The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not> shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy.> Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib? > > As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than> finding out the hard way.> > Thanks in advance for any comments.> > > > > > Tom Jenkins> > M17 Scintilla> > _______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Ian, Thanks for your comment. I can relate to "interesting". Love the name of your boat. Is it whimsy, or the name of some local animal? Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Ian Black Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:48 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing Hello Tom, I can recall at least one time when I should have used my second set of reefpoints and my storm jib. I didn't... it was... mmm... interesting. Ian M-17 Seaweeble
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:26:23 -0700> From: tjenk@gte.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: reefing> > Hello M17 sailors, > > > > The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not> shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy.> Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib? > > As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than> finding out the hard way.> > Thanks in advance for any comments.> > > > > > Tom Jenkins> > M17 Scintilla> > _______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Hi Tom, M-17s are short, fat, and they don't fall down (meaning you can rely on them to be quite safe). "Weebles wobble but they don't fall down", hence the name the "Mighty Seaweeble". Ian
Date: Sat, 19 Apr 2008 09:39:28 -0700> From: tjenk@gte.net> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing> > Ian,> Thanks for your comment. I can relate to "interesting". > Love the name of your boat. Is it whimsy, or the name of some local animal?> Tom Jenkins> M17 > Scintilla > > -----Original Message-----> From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Ian> Black> Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 4:48 PM> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats> Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing> > Hello Tom,> I can recall at least one time when I should have used my second set of> reefpoints and my storm jib. > I didn't... it was... mmm... interesting.> Ian> M-17 > Seaweeble> > > > > Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2008 15:26:23 -0700> From: tjenk@gte.net> To:> montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: M_Boats: reefing> > Hello> M17 sailors, > > > > The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef> points, but I am not> shy about have a second set installed if they are> likely to come in handy.> Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with> or without a storm jib? > > As always, I prefer to learn from the> experiences of others, rather than> finding out the hard way.> > Thanks in> advance for any comments.> > > > > > Tom Jenkins> > M17 Scintilla> >> _______________________________________________>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats> _________________________________________________________________> Going green? See the top 12 foods to eat organic.> http://green.msn.com/galleries/photos/photos.aspx?gid=164&ocid=T003MSN51N165> 3A> _______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats> > > > _______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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I have used my 2nd set several times. I can't imagine not having them. Tim D. M17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:26 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: reefing Hello M17 sailors, The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy. Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib? As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than finding out the hard way. Thanks in advance for any comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1386 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 5:24 PM
Tim, That settles it for me; off to the sailmaker. I imagine winds can howl down Okanagon from time to time as they do on our narrow desert reservoirs like Lake Havasu. If you don't mind my asking, how do you rig your reefing setup? On another boat, I have used a hook on the gooseneck for the first tack reef, and a line fixed to cleats on the mast for the second. At the clew I used two blocks and two cam cleats. The M17 boom and "gooseneck" seem a bit small for all that hardware. Have a good sailing season! Tom Jenkins -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:25 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing I have used my 2nd set several times. I can't imagine not having them. Tim D. M17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:26 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: reefing Hello M17 sailors, The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy. Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib? As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than finding out the hard way. Thanks in advance for any comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1386 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 5:24 PM _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Hi Tom. This area is kind of like 'fiord' sailing. ~:0) I am sure much like your area. Havasu looks pretty fantastic to me. All the mountain lakes are long and narrow-ish. Most run North/ South. Seems like you are either close hauled or dead down hill. Rare is the day you catch a breeze from the East or West...over the hill as it where. When you do get an odd wind.....it is often a heads up. Watch for the Ninjas. Crazy stuff. I have to always keep a weather eye out. Mr. Paranoid. I have been slammed more than once. On Thursday afternoon I went out because it was warm, sunny and a fair light breeze. No sooner got the sails set and the wind started to run the compass...45 degrees at a time. On this lake it means you are in for it. Sure as s%@# a black line is heading down lake....at least I got some warning. I use to reef the main using the method you mentioned. I found it was to slow for my deal. I use a single line system for both reefs. It was a bit of work to set up but way worth it in the end. Both reef lines are easily reachable. They belay to clam cleats on the boom...one on each side. That way I can take the boom off easily enough when taking the rig down. If I had the boat rigged all season I would run the reef lines down to turning blocks and back to the cockpit. I have marked the main halyard with both the reef points (just a 1/2 of whipping) to aid in the process. I can usually have the sail reduced in 30 seconds or so....not including tieing up excess sail etc. If I do get surprized by a sneaky rascal, my first response is to drop the headsail. I don't use a furler, but I have a downhaul and it is fast. The beauty there is if you belay the downhaul...even if there is 160 all over the foredeck...you are good to go and depowered big time. Then you can relax, deal with the pressure increase and new quadrant...sort it all out. Around her...the biggest pressure seems to be at head of the system. It tends to settle some within 20 minutes or so. I tend to reef early as I am still sailing with the wire that came on the boat when I got it. I have no idea as to the quality, age or condition (other than visual). I like not to push too hard. My new rig is on the way and I will breath a tad easier soon. Cheers, Tim D Kelowna BC M17 PUFF ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 10:57 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing Tim, That settles it for me; off to the sailmaker. I imagine winds can howl down Okanagon from time to time as they do on our narrow desert reservoirs like Lake Havasu. If you don't mind my asking, how do you rig your reefing setup? On another boat, I have used a hook on the gooseneck for the first tack reef, and a line fixed to cleats on the mast for the second. At the clew I used two blocks and two cam cleats. The M17 boom and "gooseneck" seem a bit small for all that hardware. Have a good sailing season! Tom Jenkins -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:25 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing I have used my 2nd set several times. I can't imagine not having them. Tim D. M17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:26 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: reefing Hello M17 sailors, The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy. Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib? As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than finding out the hard way. Thanks in advance for any comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1386 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 5:24 PM _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM
Tim, I can relate to fjord sailing. We sailed Portland Canal between your country and ours with our old Potter 14, and had a rousing good time when the wind piped up big (while trying to ignore the 0 C water temp). In our mountain lakes, the dreaded black line at least gives a warning, while those sneaky winds just above the water can clock 90 degrees and double in speed within seconds. Not that relaxing, but it takes one's mind off the outside world. If I understand it correctly, your reefing setup is the "impossible dream" for a frequently de-rigged trailer boat. All I can envision are two block/cam-cleat setups (one on each side) at the tack with both lines pulled aft for reefing, and two similar setups at the clew that are pulled forward. I am betting your system is actually more elegant and easier to use than that. I would be eternally grateful if you could email me a photo or line drawing of your rig. A description of the downhaul system details would also be very helpful, since getting up there with a squall coming (and no one at the tiller) looks far too interesting. Even more interesting is your experience with jib alone in feisty winds. I have run up to a beam reach with a working jib in my Nor'Sea 27, but I never tried much higher without some main. I can't wait to try all these ideas out on my 17. So much to learn. Incidentally, thanks for sharing your experiences. I am sure I am not the only one profiting from them. Regards, Tom Jenkins Scintilla M17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:24 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing Hi Tom. This area is kind of like 'fiord' sailing. ~:0) I am sure much like your area. Havasu looks pretty fantastic to me. All the mountain lakes are long and narrow-ish. Most run North/ South. Seems like you are either close hauled or dead down hill. Rare is the day you catch a breeze from the East or West...over the hill as it where. When you do get an odd wind.....it is often a heads up. Watch for the Ninjas. Crazy stuff. I have to always keep a weather eye out. Mr. Paranoid. I have been slammed more than once. On Thursday afternoon I went out because it was warm, sunny and a fair light breeze. No sooner got the sails set and the wind started to run the compass...45 degrees at a time. On this lake it means you are in for it. Sure as s%@# a black line is heading down lake....at least I got some warning. I use to reef the main using the method you mentioned. I found it was to slow for my deal. I use a single line system for both reefs. It was a bit of work to set up but way worth it in the end. Both reef lines are easily reachable. They belay to clam cleats on the boom...one on each side. That way I can take the boom off easily enough when taking the rig down. If I had the boat rigged all season I would run the reef lines down to turning blocks and back to the cockpit. I have marked the main halyard with both the reef points (just a 1/2 of whipping) to aid in the process. I can usually have the sail reduced in 30 seconds or so....not including tieing up excess sail etc. If I do get surprized by a sneaky rascal, my first response is to drop the headsail. I don't use a furler, but I have a downhaul and it is fast. The beauty there is if you belay the downhaul...even if there is 160 all over the foredeck...you are good to go and depowered big time. Then you can relax, deal with the pressure increase and new quadrant...sort it all out. Around her...the biggest pressure seems to be at head of the system. It tends to settle some within 20 minutes or so. I tend to reef early as I am still sailing with the wire that came on the boat when I got it. I have no idea as to the quality, age or condition (other than visual). I like not to push too hard. My new rig is on the way and I will breath a tad easier soon. Cheers, Tim D Kelowna BC M17 PUFF ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 10:57 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing Tim, That settles it for me; off to the sailmaker. I imagine winds can howl down Okanagon from time to time as they do on our narrow desert reservoirs like Lake Havasu. If you don't mind my asking, how do you rig your reefing setup? On another boat, I have used a hook on the gooseneck for the first tack reef, and a line fixed to cleats on the mast for the second. At the clew I used two blocks and two cam cleats. The M17 boom and "gooseneck" seem a bit small for all that hardware. Have a good sailing season! Tom Jenkins -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:25 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing I have used my 2nd set several times. I can't imagine not having them. Tim D. M17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:26 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: reefing Hello M17 sailors, The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy. Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib? As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than finding out the hard way. Thanks in advance for any comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1386 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 5:24 PM _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Tim, I can relate to fjord sailing. We sailed Portland Canal between your country and ours with our old Potter 14, and had a rousing good time when the wind piped up big (while trying to ignore the 0 C water temp). In our mountain lakes, the dreaded black line at least gives a warning, while those sneaky winds just above the water can clock 90 degrees and double in speed within seconds. Not that relaxing, but it takes one's mind off the outside world.
That sounds a lot more extreme than anything I have encountered. Yikes. There's a canal from Portland to the 49th...? The Columbia is the only thing I can think of. Our lake is an easy 70+F degrees through the summer...we have occasionally encountered 81 degrees in August. ~:0)
If I understand it correctly, your reefing setup is the "impossible dream" for a frequently de-rigged trailer boat. All I can envision are two block/cam-cleat setups (one on each side) at the tack with both lines pulled aft for reefing, and two similar setups at the clew that are pulled forward. I am betting your system is actually more elegant and easier to use than that. I would be eternally grateful if you could email me a photo or line drawing of your rig. A description of the downhaul system details would also be very helpful, since getting up there with a squall coming (and no one at the tiller) looks far too interesting.
Some photos would be easy enough. I will try and remember to take my camera to the boat this weekend.
Even more interesting is your experience with jib alone in feisty winds. I have run up to a beam reach with a working jib in my Nor'Sea 27, but I never tried much higher without some main.
I can sail all day 'full and by' with a headsail alone...and if you time the lumps I can bring her head around easy most times. Having a bit of main, of course, is better.... but it is nice to know the possibilities.
I can't wait to try all these ideas out on my 17. So much to learn.
Sometimes I think that is the best part of getting a new boat or sailing on someone elses. The learning curve and exploration.
Cheers, Tim D in BC. Regards, Tom Jenkins Scintilla M17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:24 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing Hi Tom. This area is kind of like 'fiord' sailing. ~:0) I am sure much like your area. Havasu looks pretty fantastic to me. All the mountain lakes are long and narrow-ish. Most run North/ South. Seems like you are either close hauled or dead down hill. Rare is the day you catch a breeze from the East or West...over the hill as it where. When you do get an odd wind.....it is often a heads up. Watch for the Ninjas. Crazy stuff. I have to always keep a weather eye out. Mr. Paranoid. I have been slammed more than once. On Thursday afternoon I went out because it was warm, sunny and a fair light breeze. No sooner got the sails set and the wind started to run the compass...45 degrees at a time. On this lake it means you are in for it. Sure as s%@# a black line is heading down lake....at least I got some warning. I use to reef the main using the method you mentioned. I found it was to slow for my deal. I use a single line system for both reefs. It was a bit of work to set up but way worth it in the end. Both reef lines are easily reachable. They belay to clam cleats on the boom...one on each side. That way I can take the boom off easily enough when taking the rig down. If I had the boat rigged all season I would run the reef lines down to turning blocks and back to the cockpit. I have marked the main halyard with both the reef points (just a 1/2 of whipping) to aid in the process. I can usually have the sail reduced in 30 seconds or so....not including tieing up excess sail etc. If I do get surprized by a sneaky rascal, my first response is to drop the headsail. I don't use a furler, but I have a downhaul and it is fast. The beauty there is if you belay the downhaul...even if there is 160 all over the foredeck...you are good to go and depowered big time. Then you can relax, deal with the pressure increase and new quadrant...sort it all out. Around her...the biggest pressure seems to be at head of the system. It tends to settle some within 20 minutes or so. I tend to reef early as I am still sailing with the wire that came on the boat when I got it. I have no idea as to the quality, age or condition (other than visual). I like not to push too hard. My new rig is on the way and I will breath a tad easier soon. Cheers, Tim D Kelowna BC M17 PUFF ======================================= -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 10:57 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing Tim, That settles it for me; off to the sailmaker. I imagine winds can howl down Okanagon from time to time as they do on our narrow desert reservoirs like Lake Havasu. If you don't mind my asking, how do you rig your reefing setup? On another boat, I have used a hook on the gooseneck for the first tack reef, and a line fixed to cleats on the mast for the second. At the clew I used two blocks and two cam cleats. The M17 boom and "gooseneck" seem a bit small for all that hardware. Have a good sailing season! Tom Jenkins -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:25 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing I have used my 2nd set several times. I can't imagine not having them. Tim D. M17 -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:26 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: reefing Hello M17 sailors, The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy. Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib? As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than finding out the hard way. Thanks in advance for any comments. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1386 - Release Date: 4/18/2008 5:24 PM _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.2/1387 - Release Date: 4/19/2008 11:31 AM _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 269.23.3/1392 - Release Date: 4/22/2008 3:51 PM
Tim: I'd be interested in your main sail reefing system too. --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails. Sailing is like "African Queening" thru life. On Apr 24, 2008, at 7:20 AM, Tim Diebert wrote:
Tim, I can relate to fjord sailing. We sailed Portland Canal between your country and ours with our old Potter 14, and had a rousing good time when the wind piped up big (while trying to ignore the 0 C water temp). In our mountain lakes, the dreaded black line at least gives a warning, while those sneaky winds just above the water can clock 90 degrees and double in speed within seconds. Not that relaxing, but it takes one's mind off the outside world.
That sounds a lot more extreme than anything I have encountered. Yikes. There's a canal from Portland to the 49th...? The Columbia is the only thing I can think of. Our lake is an easy 70+F degrees through the summer...we have occasionally encountered 81 degrees in August. ~:0)
If I understand it correctly, your reefing setup is the "impossible dream" for a frequently de-rigged trailer boat. All I can envision are two block/cam-cleat setups (one on each side) at the tack with both lines pulled aft for reefing, and two similar setups at the clew that are pulled forward. I am betting your system is actually more elegant and easier to use than that. I would be eternally grateful if you could email me a photo or line drawing of your rig. A description of the downhaul system details would also be very helpful, since getting up there with a squall coming (and no one at the tiller) looks far too interesting.
Some photos would be easy enough. I will try and remember to take my camera to the boat this weekend.
Even more interesting is your experience with jib alone in feisty winds. I have run up to a beam reach with a working jib in my Nor'Sea 27, but I never tried much higher without some main.
I can sail all day 'full and by' with a headsail alone...and if you time the lumps I can bring her head around easy most times. Having a bit of main, of course, is better.... but it is nice to know the possibilities.
I can't wait to try all these ideas out on my 17. So much to learn.
Sometimes I think that is the best part of getting a new boat or sailing on someone elses. The learning curve and exploration.
Cheers, Tim D in BC.
Regards, Tom Jenkins Scintilla M17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 5:24 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing
Hi Tom. This area is kind of like 'fiord' sailing. ~:0) I am sure much like your area. Havasu looks pretty fantastic to me.
All the mountain lakes are long and narrow-ish. Most run North/ South. Seems like you are either close hauled or dead down hill. Rare is the day you catch a breeze from the East or West...over the hill as it where. When you do get an odd wind.....it is often a heads up. Watch for the Ninjas. Crazy stuff. I have to always keep a weather eye out. Mr. Paranoid. I have been slammed more than once.
On Thursday afternoon I went out because it was warm, sunny and a fair light breeze. No sooner got the sails set and the wind started to run the compass...45 degrees at a time. On this lake it means you are in for it. Sure as s%@# a black line is heading down lake....at least I got some warning. I use to reef the main using the method you mentioned. I found it was to slow for my deal. I use a single line system for both reefs. It was a bit of work to set up but way worth it in the end. Both reef lines are easily reachable. They belay to clam cleats on the boom...one on each side. That way I can take the boom off easily enough when taking the rig down. If I had the boat rigged all season I would run the reef lines down to turning blocks and back to the cockpit. I have marked the main halyard with both the reef points (just a 1/2 of whipping) to aid in the process. I can usually have the sail reduced in 30 seconds or so....not including tieing up excess sail etc. If I do get surprized by a sneaky rascal, my first response is to drop the headsail. I don't use a furler, but I have a downhaul and it is fast. The beauty there is if you belay the downhaul...even if there is 160 all over the foredeck...you are good to go and depowered big time. Then you can relax, deal with the pressure increase and new quadrant...sort it all out. Around her...the biggest pressure seems to be at head of the system. It tends to settle some within 20 minutes or so. I tend to reef early as I am still sailing with the wire that came on the boat when I got it. I have no idea as to the quality, age or condition (other than visual). I like not to push too hard. My new rig is on the way and I will breath a tad easier soon.
Cheers, Tim D Kelowna BC M17 PUFF =======================================
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2008 10:57 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing
Tim,
That settles it for me; off to the sailmaker. I imagine winds can howl down Okanagon from time to time as they do on our narrow desert reservoirs like Lake Havasu. If you don't mind my asking, how do you rig your reefing setup? On another boat, I have used a hook on the gooseneck for the first tack reef, and a line fixed to cleats on the mast for the second. At the clew I used two blocks and two cam cleats. The M17 boom and "gooseneck" seem a bit small for all that hardware.
Have a good sailing season!
Tom Jenkins
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 6:25 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: reefing
I have used my 2nd set several times. I can't imagine not having them. Tim D. M17
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Friday, April 18, 2008 3:26 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: reefing
Hello M17 sailors,
The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy. Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib?
As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than finding out the hard way.
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Tom Jenkins
M17 Scintilla
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Yes, on my M17 in about 30 knot winds and with the furling jib down to a trash bag size! --Gary Hyde 2005 M17 sailboat #637 'Hydeaway 2' We can't change the wind, but we can trim our sails. Sailing is like "African Queening" thru life. On Apr 18, 2008, at 3:26 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Hello M17 sailors,
The main on my 2004 M17 came with a single set of reef points, but I am not shy about have a second set installed if they are likely to come in handy. Has anyone out there needed to double reef, with or without a storm jib?
As always, I prefer to learn from the experiences of others, rather than finding out the hard way.
Thanks in advance for any comments.
Tom Jenkins
M17 Scintilla
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participants (4)
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Gary M Hyde -
Ian Black -
Tim Diebert -
Tom Jenkins