Tom, Only difference in M-17 ratings recently applied around here (West US) were : Standard rig, tall rig and OMG-look-at-that-rig-and-keel' versions - the later is a highly modified freestanding rotating CF rig with fathead main and bulbed retracting keel - SOOO fast in light to moderate air it is AMAZING - heavy air - almost normal if no the same- name of yacht - "Paintboy" Equipment 'on board' is not 'rated' - usually just the configuration of the boat and any/all modifications that would improve performance (keels, rigs, rudders, spinn poles, etc), SAILS and typical deck rigging are NOT an issue as long as sails measure to correct sizes. Really more 'smoke blowing' at the level the M-Boats have been racing in this geographic area - we try hard to keep it fair as that helps all feel honestly treated. We have had ZERO protests for infractions and ALL are very open about the equipment. As example - my boat has a tall rig - It carries or is assessed a rating 'penalty' for the larger rig (21 inches taller than standard rig) the boat has an 'almost completed new rudder' that is actually more 'optimized and well shaped' than larger/smaller/lighter etc - the previous rudder was approx. 39# (!) this one is not nearly that heavy - but could be replicated in wood if one desired (there is no one design rudder for the M-17 - numerous versions were used including semi balanced models). - I think the current rudder on a 'new boat' is CA machine shaped plastic foil with kick-up mechanism. PaintBoy is highly modified, we have a M-15 gaff cutter type rig - and another highly modified M-17 in building/stages (slowly building a fast M-17) The goal we have strived for in our "Racing" program is to share information,tips etc and encourage ALL levels of boat/sailors via skill building. No blood-thirsty-line-barging folk that I have seen - others may chime in as to their experiences. The "Intergalactic" moniker - was suggested by a participant as we are not able to call the event a 'National' or 'World' , 'North American' or 'Pan American' Championship due to ISAF/US Sailing rules hence - Intergalactic - as it is beyond their perview! No parachutes required. ALWAYS watch the boat ahead of you when racing especially if it is the same type - they are ahead for a reason! 2016 may see a number of boats coincidentally converging on LH,AZ in February - too early to know at this time? Take Care, Have Fun, Go Sailing! GO In a message dated 3/15/2015 3:04:16 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com writes: Wow!. So two M 17's sitting side by side may get different ratings according to equipment aboard? Is that what you meant by "more and accurate ratings"? Guess I will just show up someday and see what happens. Maybe bring some good binocs so I can spy on Jerry to see what he is doing;-} For that "Intergalactic" thing do I need to pack a triple parachute for reentry? Good stuff! On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 4:25 PM, <_GILASAILR@aol.com_ (mailto:GILASAILR@aol.com) > wrote: Tom, - many times the M-Boats are scored under Portsmouth (D-PN) as there are more and accurate ratings for the 'short boats' in Portsmouth. - PHRF if you are sailing a 17 or larger in a mixed fleet- this depends on the event organizers. For the WrinkleBoat Intergalactic Championship Regatta we use D-PN for M-15, M-17, M-23 and Sage 17 _www.ussailing.org_ (http://www.ussailing.org/) › Racing › US Offshore - look for "Portsmouth Ratings' - 'Offshore' for M-17, M-23 - I think the M-15 is under 'Centerboard Classes'

From what I recall the last LHPCC Long Distance Race used PHRF ratings - Doug Kelch would know as I believe he was on R/C.

GO In a message dated 3/14/2015 2:19:25 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, _thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com_ (mailto:thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com) writes: I don't plan to formally race the boat. Interesting about the "inhauler" though. I just want to go where I want to go when I want to. Is that PHRF stuff used at places like Lake Havasu? I used to crew on a boss's old 38 Pearson sloop. Since I didn't know much about sailing at the time circa 1967 they put me on "monkey detail" cranking the jib sheet. Once it was all done I thought about the tension on that sheet block and what would happen if any part of it let go. Even on a small boat (Mont.17) the forces can surprise you when things go "pop". fair winds, Tom B. On Sat, Mar 14, 2015 at 2:15 PM, GILASAILR--- via montgomery_boats <_montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com_ (mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com) > wrote: Re. Barber haul / In haul Quote from J -105 Owners Group - "The class doesn't specifically prohibit inhauling, but doesn't allow an inhauler rig. You can get good results by using the lazy sheet on the opposite winch. This is very effective at improving point." Discussions found as to inhaul (technically the opposite of Barber haul - Barber haul - for outboard lead & inhaul - for inboard lead) for the headsails on J-105 as a One Design (neither 'haul' is allowed in class rules) and PHRF (typically allowed). Be sure to allow for some twist at the upper leech in heavy air and waves.

From Viper 640 Group - "use the lazy sheet to pull the foot of the jib inboard"

Lazy sheet method seems best - no additional hardware - snap shackles on sheets or clew in heavy air is a recipe for damage and possible injury IMO ( have witnessed the ugly result of a flailing shackle and a crew's face - horrible!). Have Fun Go Sailing - GO In a message dated 3/12/2015 12:41:16 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, _jdavies104@gmail.com_ (mailto:jdavies104@gmail.com) writes: Tom, The barber hauler is a good idea. Has anyone deployed one on an M17? If so, I'd be interested in the setup. Will it work with a roller furled genoa with an adjustable jib sheet car? Regarding reefing, I've sailed Lynne L in a 15-18 kt breeze gusting to around 25 in short, steep river chop with a single reefed main and the genoa rolled up to around 80 to 90, and she foots easily to windward at 4.5 kt. Did get kinda wet, though . . . Seems like sailing with the jib alone would be pretty unbalanced. Appreciate any suggestions. Thanks, Rick M17 #633 Lynne L On Thursday, March 12, 2015, Thomas Buzzi <_thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com_ (mailto:thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com) <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','_thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com_ (mailto:thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com) ');>> wrote:

Thanks for the feedback, Tom. I have flown jibs with a pendant before. Reefing the main sounds like a good idea always. A double reef sometimes maybe? How long are the supports (cannot think of that term) for the roach on the jib? I once had a row of reef points put in a 110 jib when I owned a Flicka. That worked quite well also, it let the boat sail on her lines better in a stiff wind. Be very interesting to see how high I could point with an 80 in front of a reefed main with a barber hauler closing the angle to about 10degrees on the jib. Fun in little boats!

Fair winds, Tom B

On Thu, Mar 12, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Tom Smith <_openboatt@gmail.com_ (mailto:openboatt@gmail.com) > wrote:

...

Hi Tom. I've sailed under small headsail alone a few times (the boat still points quite well...), but prefer to reef the main when sailing in higher winds. The luff of the jib Don built for me is a foot or 18 inches short of the full length of the fore-stay, and I use a length of pendent at the tack so I have a bit of viewing distance under the sail. Works good, and I understand most of the work is being performed at the top of the sail anyway. t

On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 9:18 PM, Thomas Buzzi <_thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com_ (mailto:thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com) > wrote:

...

Don Yager sent me a description of the 80% jib he built for Tom Smith. It sounds "bomb proof" and of excellent quality. He said I could use it to sail back (up wind) when conditions did not permit use of an outboard, too much wave action I presume. Tom or anybody, have you used just a jib to sail to windward in blustery conditions? Seems like with the lee helm generated (?) you couldn't point very high with just that jib set. Is that "80" cut high enough so you can see under it when heeled over? It is pricey but having been blown down wind from my take out point at one time (was not flying a jib, just the main on my 17) I know that isn't much fun.

fair winds, Tom B, Mont.17 #258, "AS IS"