Thanx Dave. Thanx Jerry, why Mo' betta? sal In a message dated 7/13/2009 10:15:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes: That is correct- the 23 was designed for an outboard, and all the ones I made had an outboard bracket. More better, I think. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards my understanding has been only the new cutter M23s have the inboard. the 'old', or classic, M23s were all fitted to use outboards. dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Sun, 7/12/09, SALGLESSER@aol.com <SALGLESSER@aol.com> wrote: I noticed that "Dauntless" has an outboard. I believe she is a 1979 model. We have a M23 being built and ours has an inboard. Does Dauntless have an inboard as well? sal _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! **************Looking for love this summer? Find it now on AOL Personals. (http://personals.aol.com/?ncid=emlcntuslove00000003)
Because the inboard is a load and it's expensive. I've only seen an M23 up close once, and it's a great boat, but it certainly doesn't require inboard power. Cheaper, lighter, simpler. Mo betta. On Mon, Jul 13, 2009 at 9:36 AM, <SALGLESSER@aol.com> wrote:
Thanx Dave.
Thanx Jerry, why Mo' betta?
sal
In a message dated 7/13/2009 10:15:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
That is correct- the 23 was designed for an outboard, and all the ones I made had an outboard bracket. More better, I think.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
my understanding has been only the new cutter M23s have the inboard. the 'old', or classic, M23s were all fitted to use outboards.
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Sun, 7/12/09, SALGLESSER@aol.com <SALGLESSER@aol.com> wrote:
I noticed that "Dauntless" has an outboard. I believe she is a 1979 model. We have a M23 being built and ours has an inboard. Does Dauntless have an inboard as well?
sal
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-- t
Several reasons- first, the 23 was not designed to carry all that weight back there, which is complicated even more when you put the water tank, the fuel tank, and the batteries under the cockpit. Someone who sailed in a group with Fred and Lilly told me that their boat sits 6" lower in the stern. I can believe it. Second, the prop and shaft are lots of drag on a boat that small, especially when there is not a folding prop. That, together with the squatting, has to make a HUGE difference sailing on the wind. The positives are generating power (of value if you have lots of electrical things), but I'm not really up on outboards and possibly now they have better generating systems. In either case you have to run the damn things in order to generate anything. I've been on camping trips where there was a little lightweight Honda generator, and they are amazingly quiet and would fit under the fwd berth even on a 15! Convenience is also an attribute; just throw a switch and push a button. If you've done your homework there are no fuel problems while on a cruise. Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <SALGLESSER@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:36 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Thanx Dave.
Thanx Jerry, why Mo' betta?
sal
In a message dated 7/13/2009 10:15:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
That is correct- the 23 was designed for an outboard, and all the ones I made had an outboard bracket. More better, I think.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
my understanding has been only the new cutter M23s have the inboard. the 'old', or classic, M23s were all fitted to use outboards.
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Sun, 7/12/09, SALGLESSER@aol.com <SALGLESSER@aol.com> wrote:
I noticed that "Dauntless" has an outboard. I believe she is a 1979 model. We have a M23 being built and ours has an inboard. Does Dauntless have an inboard as well?
sal
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Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that
Jerry, I thought that well-known quote was from Ben Franklin, just before his lightning experiments. But I could be wrong. Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:42 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Several reasons- first, the 23 was not designed to carry all that weight back there, which is complicated even more when you put the water tank, the fuel tank, and the batteries under the cockpit. Someone who sailed in a group with Fred and Lilly told me that their boat sits 6" lower in the stern. I can believe it.
Second, the prop and shaft are lots of drag on a boat that small, especially when there is not a folding prop. That, together with the squatting, has to make a HUGE difference sailing on the wind.
The positives are generating power (of value if you have lots of electrical things), but I'm not really up on outboards and possibly now they have better generating systems. In either case you have to run the damn things in order to generate anything. I've been on camping trips where there was a little lightweight Honda generator, and they are amazingly quiet and would fit under the fwd berth even on a 15! Convenience is also an attribute; just throw a switch and push a button. If you've done your homework there are no fuel problems while on a cruise.
Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <SALGLESSER@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:36 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Thanx Dave.
Thanx Jerry, why Mo' betta?
sal
In a message dated 7/13/2009 10:15:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
That is correct- the 23 was designed for an outboard, and all the ones I made had an outboard bracket. More better, I think.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
my understanding has been only the new cutter M23s have the inboard. the 'old', or classic, M23s were all fitted to use outboards.
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Sun, 7/12/09, SALGLESSER@aol.com <SALGLESSER@aol.com> wrote:
I noticed that "Dauntless" has an outboard. I believe she is a 1979 model. We have a M23 being built and ours has an inboard. Does Dauntless have an inboard as well?
sal
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No, Ben is famous for the quote "Laws are for the obedience of the masses and for the guidance of the wise". I use the quote at every opportunity, but a good friend is a retired judge and a liberal one at that (typical CA judge), and he's highly offended! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that
Jerry,
I thought that well-known quote was from Ben Franklin, just before his lightning experiments.
But I could be wrong.
Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:42 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Several reasons- first, the 23 was not designed to carry all that weight back there, which is complicated even more when you put the water tank, the fuel tank, and the batteries under the cockpit. Someone who sailed in a group with Fred and Lilly told me that their boat sits 6" lower in the stern. I can believe it.
Second, the prop and shaft are lots of drag on a boat that small, especially when there is not a folding prop. That, together with the squatting, has to make a HUGE difference sailing on the wind.
The positives are generating power (of value if you have lots of electrical things), but I'm not really up on outboards and possibly now they have better generating systems. In either case you have to run the damn things in order to generate anything. I've been on camping trips where there was a little lightweight Honda generator, and they are amazingly quiet and would fit under the fwd berth even on a 15! Convenience is also an attribute; just throw a switch and push a button. If you've done your homework there are no fuel problems while on a cruise.
Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <SALGLESSER@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:36 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Thanx Dave.
Thanx Jerry, why Mo' betta?
sal
In a message dated 7/13/2009 10:15:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
That is correct- the 23 was designed for an outboard, and all the ones I made had an outboard bracket. More better, I think.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
my understanding has been only the new cutter M23s have the inboard. the 'old', or classic, M23s were all fitted to use outboards.
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Sun, 7/12/09, SALGLESSER@aol.com <SALGLESSER@aol.com> wrote:
I noticed that "Dauntless" has an outboard. I believe she is a 1979 model. We have a M23 being built and ours has an inboard. Does Dauntless have an inboard as well?
sal
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Jerry, I am humbled by your knowledge of all things nautical however: Being of Greek heritage I have a solemn duty to my ancestors to correct a misstatement you made recently. The original saying, "Laws are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." was made by Solon, a Greek politician who lived in Athens a couple thousand years before Ben Franklin was born. Franklin, being well educated in the classics, may have "borrowed" from my illustrious ancestor. But, as with most things, the Greeks thought of it first. Jim Poulakis M-17 "Spirit" On Jul 13, 2009, at 11:21 AM, jerry wrote:
No, Ben is famous for the quote "Laws are for the obedience of the masses and for the guidance of the wise". I use the quote at every opportunity, but a good friend is a retired judge and a liberal one at that (typical CA judge), and he's highly offended!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that
Jerry,
I thought that well-known quote was from Ben Franklin, just before his lightning experiments.
But I could be wrong.
Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:42 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Several reasons- first, the 23 was not designed to carry all that weight back there, which is complicated even more when you put the water tank, the fuel tank, and the batteries under the cockpit. Someone who sailed in a group with Fred and Lilly told me that their boat sits 6" lower in the stern. I can believe it.
Second, the prop and shaft are lots of drag on a boat that small, especially when there is not a folding prop. That, together with the squatting, has to make a HUGE difference sailing on the wind.
The positives are generating power (of value if you have lots of electrical things), but I'm not really up on outboards and possibly now they have better generating systems. In either case you have to run the damn things in order to generate anything. I've been on camping trips where there was a little lightweight Honda generator, and they are amazingly quiet and would fit under the fwd berth even on a 15! Convenience is also an attribute; just throw a switch and push a button. If you've done your homework there are no fuel problems while on a cruise.
Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <SALGLESSER@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:36 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Thanx Dave.
Thanx Jerry, why Mo' betta?
sal
In a message dated 7/13/2009 10:15:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
That is correct- the 23 was designed for an outboard, and all the ones I made had an outboard bracket. More better, I think.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
my understanding has been only the new cutter M23s have the inboard. the 'old', or classic, M23s were all fitted to use outboards.
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Sun, 7/12/09, SALGLESSER@aol.com <SALGLESSER@aol.com> wrote:
I noticed that "Dauntless" has an outboard. I believe she is a 1979 model. We have a M23 being built and ours has an inboard. Does Dauntless have an inboard as well?
sal
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Will Rogers also used it, and attributed it to Ben! That's where I was first exposed to it. Fools, huh? I wonder where Solon heard it. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Poulakis" <picfo@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 12:22 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Jerry, I am humbled by your knowledge of all things nautical however:
Being of Greek heritage I have a solemn duty to my ancestors to correct a misstatement you made recently.
The original saying, "Laws are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." was made by Solon, a Greek politician who lived in Athens a couple thousand years before Ben Franklin was born. Franklin, being well educated in the classics, may have "borrowed" from my illustrious ancestor. But, as with most things, the Greeks thought of it first.
Jim Poulakis M-17 "Spirit"
On Jul 13, 2009, at 11:21 AM, jerry wrote:
No, Ben is famous for the quote "Laws are for the obedience of the masses and for the guidance of the wise". I use the quote at every opportunity, but a good friend is a retired judge and a liberal one at that (typical CA judge), and he's highly offended!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that
Jerry,
I thought that well-known quote was from Ben Franklin, just before his lightning experiments.
But I could be wrong.
Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:42 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Several reasons- first, the 23 was not designed to carry all that weight back there, which is complicated even more when you put the water tank, the fuel tank, and the batteries under the cockpit. Someone who sailed in a group with Fred and Lilly told me that their boat sits 6" lower in the stern. I can believe it.
Second, the prop and shaft are lots of drag on a boat that small, especially when there is not a folding prop. That, together with the squatting, has to make a HUGE difference sailing on the wind.
The positives are generating power (of value if you have lots of electrical things), but I'm not really up on outboards and possibly now they have better generating systems. In either case you have to run the damn things in order to generate anything. I've been on camping trips where there was a little lightweight Honda generator, and they are amazingly quiet and would fit under the fwd berth even on a 15! Convenience is also an attribute; just throw a switch and push a button. If you've done your homework there are no fuel problems while on a cruise.
Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <SALGLESSER@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:36 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Thanx Dave.
Thanx Jerry, why Mo' betta?
sal
In a message dated 7/13/2009 10:15:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
That is correct- the 23 was designed for an outboard, and all the ones I made had an outboard bracket. More better, I think.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
my understanding has been only the new cutter M23s have the inboard. the 'old', or classic, M23s were all fitted to use outboards.
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Sun, 7/12/09, SALGLESSER@aol.com <SALGLESSER@aol.com> wrote:
I noticed that "Dauntless" has an outboard. I believe she is a 1979 model. We have a M23 being built and ours has an inboard. Does Dauntless have an inboard as well?
sal
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Great Googly Moogly, Here I thought I was getting the best summer school on sailing and low and behold, I get a free seminar on Greek history!!! What a great site!!! Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Poulakis" <picfo@comcast.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 3:22 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Jerry, I am humbled by your knowledge of all things nautical however:
Being of Greek heritage I have a solemn duty to my ancestors to correct a misstatement you made recently.
The original saying, "Laws are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men." was made by Solon, a Greek politician who lived in Athens a couple thousand years before Ben Franklin was born. Franklin, being well educated in the classics, may have "borrowed" from my illustrious ancestor. But, as with most things, the Greeks thought of it first.
Jim Poulakis M-17 "Spirit"
On Jul 13, 2009, at 11:21 AM, jerry wrote:
No, Ben is famous for the quote "Laws are for the obedience of the masses and for the guidance of the wise". I use the quote at every opportunity, but a good friend is a retired judge and a liberal one at that (typical CA judge), and he's highly offended!
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <htmills@zoominternet.net> To: "'For and about Montgomery Sailboats'" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:49 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that
Jerry,
I thought that well-known quote was from Ben Franklin, just before his lightning experiments.
But I could be wrong.
Tod
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of jerry Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 1:42 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Several reasons- first, the 23 was not designed to carry all that weight back there, which is complicated even more when you put the water tank, the fuel tank, and the batteries under the cockpit. Someone who sailed in a group with Fred and Lilly told me that their boat sits 6" lower in the stern. I can believe it.
Second, the prop and shaft are lots of drag on a boat that small, especially when there is not a folding prop. That, together with the squatting, has to make a HUGE difference sailing on the wind.
The positives are generating power (of value if you have lots of electrical things), but I'm not really up on outboards and possibly now they have better generating systems. In either case you have to run the damn things in order to generate anything. I've been on camping trips where there was a little lightweight Honda generator, and they are amazingly quiet and would fit under the fwd berth even on a 15! Convenience is also an attribute; just throw a switch and push a button. If you've done your homework there are no fuel problems while on a cruise.
Also, you pays your money and takes your choice, but you pays a lot more money with a diesel. I think Thomas Jefferson said that.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <SALGLESSER@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 9:36 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
Thanx Dave.
Thanx Jerry, why Mo' betta?
sal
In a message dated 7/13/2009 10:15:21 A.M. Mountain Daylight Time, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org writes:
That is correct- the 23 was designed for an outboard, and all the ones I made had an outboard bracket. More better, I think.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "W David Scobie" <wdscobie@yahoo.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, July 12, 2009 8:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M23 inboards
my understanding has been only the new cutter M23s have the inboard. the 'old', or classic, M23s were all fitted to use outboards.
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site: http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Sun, 7/12/09, SALGLESSER@aol.com <SALGLESSER@aol.com> wrote:
I noticed that "Dauntless" has an outboard. I believe she is a 1979 model. We have a M23 being built and ours has an inboard. Does Dauntless have an inboard as well?
sal
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participants (6)
-
htmills＠zoominternet.net -
James Poulakis -
jerry -
Joe Murphy -
SALGLESSER＠aol.com -
Tom Smith