Randy, Sounds like you have done your homework. I just wanted to make 1 comment regarding the long shaft vs. short shaft. I have a Yamaha 4 hp 2 cycle long shaft on our M-15 #407. It is mounted on an adjustable motor mount. There are times when for a variety of conditions the prop, even the long shaft, will come out of the water while under power. I get a shiver up my spine every time I hear this happen! I was thinking this problem would be worsened by having a short shaft. With the adjustable motor mount I have a couple of options for motor depth, but almost always use the lowest setting while under power. I am trying to visualize the geomerty of the keel depth, rudder depth, etc. and can't see how the long shaft protrudes lower than either of these. When sailing in shallow waters it is always the kick up rudder that bumps the bottom first. Randy Graves M-15 # 407 Post Falls, ID -----Original Message----- From: Randy Dawson [mailto:rdawson@surewest.net] Sent: Fri 5/9/2003 7:55 PM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Cc: Subject: M_Boats: RE: Outboards again summary Thanks again to everyone who responded to my interest in the Briggs & Stratton 5hp motor, especially Scott/'bebe'. As expected from this quality group, I was provided with a wealth of information to consider. I have come to the conclusion that the "ideal" motor for an M15 is not yet made; IMO, the ideal would be: 3hp 4-stroke, 30lbs, F-N-R, internal/external tank option, short/long shaft option. For myself, I have narrowed my decision to 3 possiblilities (I want to sail on Lake Tahoe so 4-stroke is required). I will stick with short shaft for exploring shallow waters in lakes/delta around Sacramento: 1. Honda 2hp Pro: light weight (27 lbs dry) Con: don't like the clutch idea, would prefer a gear Con: barely enough power, would prefer some "reserve" 2. Yamaha 2.5hp Pro: Sufficient reserve power Pro: Has neutral gear Con: 10 lbs heavier (37 lbs dry) 3. Yamaha 4hp Pro: F-N-R Con: heavy (48 lbs dry) Con: cost premium about $350 I am currently leaning toward the Yammy 4 because: 20 extra lbs on the stern doesn't seem like that much on an 800 lb vessel with 2 moving 175 lb crew. If I put the cooler full of beer toward the v in the berth, won't that balance it out? I really like the F-N-R convenience. I'm hoping I can get an external tank option for longer range. Need to investigate this further. Well, there it is. I am VERY grateful to the group for their comments. I could have purchased the Briggs and not realized it is not intended for salt water until it corroded away in the Delta. Ran Dawson M15 #469 'Little Wing' _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats