Cleaning and refinishing teak brightwork
Montypals: My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here. So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though! http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori... Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choice… On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here.
So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before.
By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though!
http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori...
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat. go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use. always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'. i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boat when growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choice…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here.
So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before.
By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though!
http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori...
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys. OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice… Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boat when growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choice…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here.
So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before.
By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though!
http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori...
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
i've not used a heat gun to clean up teak. i've used a stripper. both a heat gun or stripper are a lot of work. once the old finish is removed sand using 80 grit to take out any dings in the wood and to get the last bits of old finished removed. follow 80 grit with the new product's recommendation for finish and between coat sanding ... each is different. for oil or Daly's i finish sand with 220 and then apply. oil doesn't require sanding between coats. when using Daly's i sand after every 2nd or 3rd coat. my Mom like to sand between coats of Daly's with bronze wool (DON'T use steel wool). for varnish or Cetol you need to do multiple cleanings of the teak to remove as much oil as possible. the varnish/Cetol instructions will outline the specific 'oil remover' to use. if you don't get the oil out the varnish/cetol will 'pop off'. following the product's prep and application procedures is key. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice…
Well, I am not sure about the prep. Perhaps I should take a photo and post. The cetol or whatever seems to be flaking and raised. So, a chemical stripper or heat gun would get it? Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
i've not used a heat gun to clean up teak. i've used a stripper. both a heat gun or stripper are a lot of work.
once the old finish is removed sand using 80 grit to take out any dings in the wood and to get the last bits of old finished removed. follow 80 grit with the new product's recommendation for finish and between coat sanding ... each is different.
for oil or Daly's i finish sand with 220 and then apply. oil doesn't require sanding between coats. when using Daly's i sand after every 2nd or 3rd coat. my Mom like to sand between coats of Daly's with bronze wool (DON'T use steel wool).
for varnish or Cetol you need to do multiple cleanings of the teak to remove as much oil as possible. the varnish/Cetol instructions will outline the specific 'oil remover' to use. if you don't get the oil out the varnish/cetol will 'pop off'.
following the product's prep and application procedures is key.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice…
if the Cetol is VERY flaking you can use a scraper and/or 80 grit. what you don't want to do is sand/scrape away all your teak.. if the Cetol is more 'stuck than flaking' i'd use a stripper and/or heat gun. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I am not sure about the prep. Perhaps I should take a photo and post. The cetol or whatever seems to be flaking and raised. So, a chemical stripper or heat gun would get it?
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
i've not used a heat gun to clean up teak. i've used a stripper. both a heat gun or stripper are a lot of work.
once the old finish is removed sand using 80 grit to take out any dings in the wood and to get the last bits of old finished removed. follow 80 grit with the new product's recommendation for finish and between coat sanding ... each is different.
for oil or Daly's i finish sand with 220 and then apply. oil doesn't require sanding between coats. when using Daly's i sand after every 2nd or 3rd coat. my Mom like to sand between coats of Daly's with bronze wool (DON'T use steel wool).
for varnish or Cetol you need to do multiple cleanings of the teak to remove as much oil as possible. the varnish/Cetol instructions will outline the specific 'oil remover' to use. if you don't get the oil out the varnish/cetol will 'pop off'.
following the product's prep and application procedures is key.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice…
Well, I have a combo of both. So perhaps a scraper first for the obvious stuff, and then stripper or heat gun for the rest. Hmm. Sounds like a bunch of work! D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
if the Cetol is VERY flaking you can use a scraper and/or 80 grit. what you don't want to do is sand/scrape away all your teak..
if the Cetol is more 'stuck than flaking' i'd use a stripper and/or heat gun.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I am not sure about the prep. Perhaps I should take a photo and post. The cetol or whatever seems to be flaking and raised. So, a chemical stripper or heat gun would get it?
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
i've not used a heat gun to clean up teak. i've used a stripper. both a heat gun or stripper are a lot of work.
once the old finish is removed sand using 80 grit to take out any dings in the wood and to get the last bits of old finished removed. follow 80 grit with the new product's recommendation for finish and between coat sanding ... each is different.
for oil or Daly's i finish sand with 220 and then apply. oil doesn't require sanding between coats. when using Daly's i sand after every 2nd or 3rd coat. my Mom like to sand between coats of Daly's with bronze wool (DON'T use steel wool).
for varnish or Cetol you need to do multiple cleanings of the teak to remove as much oil as possible. the varnish/Cetol instructions will outline the specific 'oil remover' to use. if you don't get the oil out the varnish/cetol will 'pop off'.
following the product's prep and application procedures is key.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:08 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice…
getting 'behind the curve' on brightwork makes for a lot of work. i find oil and Daly's more 'forgiving' in both maintenance and application. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I have a combo of both. So perhaps a scraper first for the obvious stuff, and then stripper or heat gun for the rest. Hmm. Sounds like a bunch of work!
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
if the Cetol is VERY flaking you can use a scraper and/or 80 grit. what you don't want to do is sand/scrape away all your teak..
if the Cetol is more 'stuck than flaking' i'd use a stripper and/or heat gun.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I am not sure about the prep. Perhaps I should take a photo and post. The cetol or whatever seems to be flaking and raised. So, a chemical stripper or heat gun would get it?
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
i've not used a heat gun to clean up teak. i've used a stripper. both a heat gun or stripper are a lot of work.
once the old finish is removed sand using 80 grit to take out any dings in the wood and to get the last bits of old finished removed. follow 80 grit with the new product's recommendation for finish and between coat sanding ... each is different.
for oil or Daly's i finish sand with 220 and then apply. oil doesn't require sanding between coats. when using Daly's i sand after every 2nd or 3rd coat. my Mom like to sand between coats of Daly's with bronze wool (DON'T use steel wool).
for varnish or Cetol you need to do multiple cleanings of the teak to remove as much oil as possible. the varnish/Cetol instructions will outline the specific 'oil remover' to use. if you don't get the oil out the varnish/cetol will 'pop off'.
following the product's prep and application procedures is key.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
Right, sounds like it. OK, so I have a restoration job of some kind ahead. How do I do it without removing the wood from the boat? D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:34 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
getting 'behind the curve' on brightwork makes for a lot of work. i find oil and Daly's more 'forgiving' in both maintenance and application.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:29 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I have a combo of both. So perhaps a scraper first for the obvious stuff, and then stripper or heat gun for the rest. Hmm. Sounds like a bunch of work!
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
if the Cetol is VERY flaking you can use a scraper and/or 80 grit. what you don't want to do is sand/scrape away all your teak..
if the Cetol is more 'stuck than flaking' i'd use a stripper and/or heat gun.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 4:24 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, I am not sure about the prep. Perhaps I should take a photo and post. The cetol or whatever seems to be flaking and raised. So, a chemical stripper or heat gun would get it?
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:21 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
i've not used a heat gun to clean up teak. i've used a stripper. both a heat gun or stripper are a lot of work.
once the old finish is removed sand using 80 grit to take out any dings in the wood and to get the last bits of old finished removed. follow 80 grit with the new product's recommendation for finish and between coat sanding ... each is different.
for oil or Daly's i finish sand with 220 and then apply. oil doesn't require sanding between coats. when using Daly's i sand after every 2nd or 3rd coat. my Mom like to sand between coats of Daly's with bronze wool (DON'T use steel wool).
for varnish or Cetol you need to do multiple cleanings of the teak to remove as much oil as possible. the varnish/Cetol instructions will outline the specific 'oil remover' to use. if you don't get the oil out the varnish/cetol will 'pop off'.
following the product's prep and application procedures is key.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel, Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers) A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing.. The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge. See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..." The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface. I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats. Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a noviceÂ…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solutionÂ…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choiceÂ…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. DoesnÂ’t need to look showroom great, but some help here. So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though!
http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori...
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that? D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing..
The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge.
See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface.
I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choice…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here. So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though!
http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori...
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
Cabinet scrapers often come in packs of three of differing shapes…one of which is a French curve that is useful for the rails. End grain is the most difficult to scrape without damaging the wood. Just use a lighter touch and keep the scraper sharp. Scrape with the grain along the rails. If you use a hot air gun you won’t need to do much scraping. I have been using a hot air gun to remove old Cetol/Bristol/varnish for the past year or so. I was skeptical but saw so many references to its use on forums that I decided to try it. It makes the removal of old finish very easy. The old finish peels off very easily without damaging the wood like cold scraping does and without the mess of chemical strippers. I use Deks Olje satin on exterior teak. Not a varnish but a sealer. It’s an oil/sealer concoction that will slowly weather and needs refurbishing about yearly. Keeps the teak from drying out. Doesn’t get slippery like varnish. No “removal” when refurbishing. Just a light cleaning and bleaching and sanding. On Aug 22, 2014, at 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that?
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing..
The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge.
See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface.
I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choice…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here. So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though!
http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori...
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
OK, so if I use a heat gun I can heat up the finish, scrape off with some kind of cheap plastic scraper, and then get the rest with a nice metal sand paper or cabinet scraper? That doesn’t sound that daunting… D On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Cabinet scrapers often come in packs of three of differing shapes…one of which is a French curve that is useful for the rails. End grain is the most difficult to scrape without damaging the wood. Just use a lighter touch and keep the scraper sharp. Scrape with the grain along the rails.
If you use a hot air gun you won’t need to do much scraping. I have been using a hot air gun to remove old Cetol/Bristol/varnish for the past year or so. I was skeptical but saw so many references to its use on forums that I decided to try it. It makes the removal of old finish very easy. The old finish peels off very easily without damaging the wood like cold scraping does and without the mess of chemical strippers.
I use Deks Olje satin on exterior teak. Not a varnish but a sealer. It’s an oil/sealer concoction that will slowly weather and needs refurbishing about yearly. Keeps the teak from drying out. Doesn’t get slippery like varnish. No “removal” when refurbishing. Just a light cleaning and bleaching and sanding.
On Aug 22, 2014, at 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that?
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing..
The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge.
See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface.
I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choice…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
> Montypals: > > My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here. > So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. > By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though! > http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori... > > Daniel Rich > M15 #208 "Kestrel" > danielgrich@gmail.com
Should do it… On Aug 22, 2014, at 6:42 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
OK, so if I use a heat gun I can heat up the finish, scrape off with some kind of cheap plastic scraper, and then get the rest with a nice metal sand paper or cabinet scraper? That doesn’t sound that daunting…
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Cabinet scrapers often come in packs of three of differing shapes…one of which is a French curve that is useful for the rails. End grain is the most difficult to scrape without damaging the wood. Just use a lighter touch and keep the scraper sharp. Scrape with the grain along the rails.
If you use a hot air gun you won’t need to do much scraping. I have been using a hot air gun to remove old Cetol/Bristol/varnish for the past year or so. I was skeptical but saw so many references to its use on forums that I decided to try it. It makes the removal of old finish very easy. The old finish peels off very easily without damaging the wood like cold scraping does and without the mess of chemical strippers.
I use Deks Olje satin on exterior teak. Not a varnish but a sealer. It’s an oil/sealer concoction that will slowly weather and needs refurbishing about yearly. Keeps the teak from drying out. Doesn’t get slippery like varnish. No “removal” when refurbishing. Just a light cleaning and bleaching and sanding.
On Aug 22, 2014, at 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that?
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing..
The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge.
See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface.
I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
> Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the > wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution…use > Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. > Finish with the finish of your choice… > > On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Montypals: >> >> My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had > some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I > would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look > showroom great, but some help here. >> So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then > regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? > What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when > properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have > never done anything like this before. >> By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New > sails though! >> > http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori... >> >> Daniel Rich >> M15 #208 "Kestrel" >> danielgrich@gmail.com
Get a heat gun and a some Sandvik scrapers, the kind with long plastic handles and interchangeable metal blades. Together, they will make short work of any old finish while removing almost none of the underlying wood. For a new finish, I've tried them all and there is no silver bullet. The ones that are easy don't last or don't look good, and the ones that last and look good are too much work. You just have to pick you own poison. In my case, it tends to be Cetol Natural, which I think strikes a pretty good balance between ease of application, longevity and appearance. -----Original Message----- From: Daniel Rich Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 7:42 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cleaning and refinishing teak brightwork OK, so if I use a heat gun I can heat up the finish, scrape off with some kind of cheap plastic scraper, and then get the rest with a nice metal sand paper or cabinet scraper? That doesnÂ’t sound that dauntingÂ… D On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:37 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Cabinet scrapers often come in packs of three of differing shapesÂ…one of which is a French curve that is useful for the rails. End grain is the most difficult to scrape without damaging the wood. Just use a lighter touch and keep the scraper sharp. Scrape with the grain along the rails.
If you use a hot air gun you wonÂ’t need to do much scraping. I have been using a hot air gun to remove old Cetol/Bristol/varnish for the past year or so. I was skeptical but saw so many references to its use on forums that I decided to try it. It makes the removal of old finish very easy. The old finish peels off very easily without damaging the wood like cold scraping does and without the mess of chemical strippers.
I use Deks Olje satin on exterior teak. Not a varnish but a sealer. It’s an oil/sealer concoction that will slowly weather and needs refurbishing about yearly. Keeps the teak from drying out. Doesn’t get slippery like varnish. No “removal” when refurbishing. Just a light cleaning and bleaching and sanding.
On Aug 22, 2014, at 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that?
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing..
The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge.
See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface.
I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a noviceÂ…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solutionÂ…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choiceÂ…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
> Montypals: > > My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. DoesnÂ’t need to look showroom great, but some help here. > So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And > then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. > By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though! > http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori... > > Daniel Rich > M15 #208 "Kestrel" > danielgrich@gmail.com
On 22-Aug-14 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel, It works fine on the tops and sides of handrails. The problem is getting at the undersides and the inside curved ends of the handrail. I have various other "scraping" tools that I use to reach those parts and locations - and if you don't have such tools, then you'll have to revert to using sandpaper for that 5% of the handrail. The scraper does the other 95% easily. The teak toe rail is easy to do. It has flat surfaces on the outer and on the inner sides that you can reach easily with a rectangular scraper. Connie
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that?
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing..
The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge.
See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface.
I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a noviceÂ…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solutionÂ…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choiceÂ…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. DoesnÂ’t need to look showroom great, but some help here. So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though! http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori... Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
OK, helpful. Now with your method, you simply scrape as the first step without stripping or heat gun? D On Aug 23, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
It works fine on the tops and sides of handrails.
The problem is getting at the undersides and the inside curved ends of the handrail.
I have various other "scraping" tools that I use to reach those parts and locations - and if you don't have such tools, then you'll have to revert to using sandpaper for that 5% of the handrail. The scraper does the other 95% easily.
The teak toe rail is easy to do. It has flat surfaces on the outer and on the inner sides that you can reach easily with a rectangular scraper.
Connie
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that?
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing..
The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge.
See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface.
I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choice…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
> Montypals: > > My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here. > So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. > By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though! http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori... > Daniel Rich > M15 #208 "Kestrel" > danielgrich@gmail.com
On 23-Aug-14 11:03 AM, Daniel Rich wrote: Daniel, I haven't tried the heat gun approach to removing old varnish. When I refinished my teak, I just removed it with my scraper, by now I'm skilled in its use. If the heat gun loosens it up faster, and in larger quantities, that would be the way to go. My scraper method is labor intensive, but when you have all winter to "play" with your boat, do you really count the hours spent on the project? When I started stripping the coat of latex house paint from my derelict ComPac 16, MURPHY was looking over my shoulder and grinning. The first square foot of latex paint peeled off very easily. I thought this will be easy.... The rest was welded in place and could only be removed, very laboriously, square inch by square inch. MURPHY won again! Enjoy your job. When you are finished and it all gleams again you can puff out your chest and say, "that's my refinishing work". Connie
OK, helpful. Now with your method, you simply scrape as the first step without stripping or heat gun?
D On Aug 23, 2014, at 8:19 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
It works fine on the tops and sides of handrails.
The problem is getting at the undersides and the inside curved ends of the handrail.
I have various other "scraping" tools that I use to reach those parts and locations - and if you don't have such tools, then you'll have to revert to using sandpaper for that 5% of the handrail. The scraper does the other 95% easily.
The teak toe rail is easy to do. It has flat surfaces on the outer and on the inner sides that you can reach easily with a rectangular scraper.
Connie
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that?
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing..
The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge.
See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface.
I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a noviceÂ…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
> Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the > wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solutionÂ…use > Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. > Finish with the finish of your choiceÂ… > > On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Montypals: >> >> My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had > some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I > would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. DoesnÂ’t need to look > showroom great, but some help here. >> So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then > regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? > What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when > properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have > never done anything like this before. >> By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New > sails though! > http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori... >> Daniel Rich >> M15 #208 "Kestrel" >> danielgrich@gmail.com
Good advice. Sadly, I still work full time! So, I have a limited amount of availability to do this. I would be happy with a good job as opposed to a great job on the teak! So, I’ll try the heat gun and scraping when I get the chance, and report back. I won’t get started on this for at least a month since I am traveling for a few weeks starting late next week. D On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 23-Aug-14 11:03 AM, Daniel Rich wrote:
Daniel,
I haven't tried the heat gun approach to removing old varnish.
When I refinished my teak, I just removed it with my scraper, by now I'm skilled in its use.
If the heat gun loosens it up faster, and in larger quantities, that would be the way to go. My scraper method is labor intensive, but when you have all winter to "play" with your boat, do you really count the hours spent on the project?
When I started stripping the coat of latex house paint from my derelict ComPac 16, MURPHY was looking over my shoulder and grinning. The first square foot of latex paint peeled off very easily. I thought this will be easy.... The rest was welded in place and could only be removed, very laboriously, square inch by square inch. MURPHY won again!
Enjoy your job. When you are finished and it all gleams again you can puff out your chest and say, "that's my refinishing work".
OK, I found this video on Youtube. This guy is using card scrapers. I think this is what you mean like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdmYpS6nliQ Daniel On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 23-Aug-14 11:03 AM, Daniel Rich wrote:
Daniel,
I haven't tried the heat gun approach to removing old varnish.
When I refinished my teak, I just removed it with my scraper, by now I'm skilled in its use.
If the heat gun loosens it up faster, and in larger quantities, that would be the way to go. My scraper method is labor intensive, but when you have all winter to "play" with your boat, do you really count the hours spent on the project?
When I started stripping the coat of latex house paint from my derelict ComPac 16, MURPHY was looking over my shoulder and grinning. The first square foot of latex paint peeled off very easily. I thought this will be easy.... The rest was welded in place and could only be removed, very laboriously, square inch by square inch. MURPHY won again!
Enjoy your job. When you are finished and it all gleams again you can puff out your chest and say, "that's my refinishing work".
Connie
On 23-Aug-14 12:38 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Daniel, That's what I use. Connie
OK, I found this video on Youtube. This guy is using card scrapers. I think this is what you mean like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdmYpS6nliQ
Daniel On Aug 23, 2014, at 9:14 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 23-Aug-14 11:03 AM, Daniel Rich wrote:
Daniel,
I haven't tried the heat gun approach to removing old varnish.
When I refinished my teak, I just removed it with my scraper, by now I'm skilled in its use.
If the heat gun loosens it up faster, and in larger quantities, that would be the way to go. My scraper method is labor intensive, but when you have all winter to "play" with your boat, do you really count the hours spent on the project?
When I started stripping the coat of latex house paint from my derelict ComPac 16, MURPHY was looking over my shoulder and grinning. The first square foot of latex paint peeled off very easily. I thought this will be easy.... The rest was welded in place and could only be removed, very laboriously, square inch by square inch. MURPHY won again!
Enjoy your job. When you are finished and it all gleams again you can puff out your chest and say, "that's my refinishing work".
Connie
Hi Connie and Daniel, I have had reasonably good success on the underside of handrails using a 1 or 2" wide strip of "cloth backed sand paper" sheet length and sanding back and forth, as if you were "shining" your shoes, but upside down..... I started with something like 100 grit and sanded lightly until done and then switched to 120 to smooth things back up. My 2¢... Bill Tosh T C Boats Henderson, TX. And previous M15 and M17 owner. -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+billt=eastex.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Conbert Benneck Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:19 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cleaning and refinishing teak brightwork On 22-Aug-14 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel, It works fine on the tops and sides of handrails. The problem is getting at the undersides and the inside curved ends of the handrail. I have various other "scraping" tools that I use to reach those parts and locations - and if you don't have such tools, then you'll have to revert to using sandpaper for that 5% of the handrail. The scraper does the other 95% easily. The teak toe rail is easy to do. It has flat surfaces on the outer and on the inner sides that you can reach easily with a rectangular scraper. Connie
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that?
D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing..
The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge.
See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface.
I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'.
i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choice
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesnt need to look showroom great, but some help here. So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though! http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in -my-favorite-place-again/ Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
On 23-Aug-14 11:11 AM, Bill Tosh wrote: Hi Bill, Now you tell me! One gets too soon old and too late smart! That's a neat solution to the problem. Connie
Hi Connie and Daniel, I have had reasonably good success on the underside of handrails using a 1 or 2" wide strip of "cloth backed sand paper" sheet length and sanding back and forth, as if you were "shining" your shoes, but upside down..... I started with something like 100 grit and sanded lightly until done and then switched to 120 to smooth things back up. My 2¢...
Bill Tosh T C Boats Henderson, TX. And previous M15 and M17 owner.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+billt=eastex.net@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Conbert Benneck Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:19 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cleaning and refinishing teak brightwork
On 22-Aug-14 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
It works fine on the tops and sides of handrails.
The problem is getting at the undersides and the inside curved ends of the handrail.
I have various other "scraping" tools that I use to reach those parts and locations - and if you don't have such tools, then you'll have to revert to using sandpaper for that 5% of the handrail. The scraper does the other 95% easily.
The teak toe rail is easy to do. It has flat surfaces on the outer and on the inner sides that you can reach easily with a rectangular scraper.
Connie
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that? D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing.. The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge. See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface. I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a noviceÂ…
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'. i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solutionÂ…use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choiceÂ…
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: > Montypals: > > My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it > had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. DoesnÂ’t need to look showroom great, but some help here. > So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? > And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. > By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. > New sails though! http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in -my-favorite-place-again/ > Daniel Rich > M15 #208 "Kestrel" > danielgrich@gmail.com
Hey, that's just T C Boats Shade Tree stuff....lol,,,, but it did work for me fairly well... I'm sure there are more professional ways to do it and do it "properly", but it got done anyway. I have made a few Hollow wooden masts for small boats and rounded them off in a similar manner, and then switched to sanding "with" the grain to finish. Dont feel alone Connie, at 72, I ain't no sprang chicken brain either....lol, and still learning ! Bill -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Conbert Benneck Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 11:17 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cleaning and refinishing teak brightwork On 23-Aug-14 11:11 AM, Bill Tosh wrote: Hi Bill, Now you tell me! One gets too soon old and too late smart! That's a neat solution to the problem. Connie
Hi Connie and Daniel, I have had reasonably good success on the underside of handrails using a 1 or 2" wide strip of "cloth backed sand paper" sheet length and sanding back and forth, as if you were "shining" your shoes, but upside down..... I started with something like 100 grit and sanded lightly until done and then switched to 120 to smooth things back up. My 2¢...
Bill Tosh T C Boats Henderson, TX. And previous M15 and M17 owner.
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces+billt=eastex.net@mailman.xmission.com ] On Behalf Of Conbert Benneck Sent: Saturday, August 23, 2014 10:19 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Cleaning and refinishing teak brightwork
On 22-Aug-14 5:40 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
It works fine on the tops and sides of handrails.
The problem is getting at the undersides and the inside curved ends of the handrail.
I have various other "scraping" tools that I use to reach those parts and locations - and if you don't have such tools, then you'll have to revert to using sandpaper for that 5% of the handrail. The scraper does the other 95% easily.
The teak toe rail is easy to do. It has flat surfaces on the outer and on the inner sides that you can reach easily with a rectangular scraper.
Connie
That looks interesting. Now the wood I am talking about is the toe rails and hand rails. These are small long pieces of wood with various curves. Would a scraper work well for that? D On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:36 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 22-Aug-14 5:08 PM, Daniel Rich wrote: Hi Daniel,
Wood workers /cabinet makers use a rectangular (curved ones for rounded things are also available) scraper for finishing the surfaces of their work. (See Rockler or Lee Valley Tools for scrapers)
A rectangular scraper is a high precision cutting tool, and can be used instead of sandpaper. The sharp edge makes a clean cut (by decreasing the pressure you exert on the scraper you can take off minute wood shavings) and you can see and feel the wood surface to check on what you are doing.. The main trick to using one is to create, and maintain, a proper cutting edge. When the cutting edge starts to get dull, you put it in a vice, give the edge (s) a few strokes with a fine mill file; then use a hard rod ( smooth end of a drill bit) to turn a very slight burr on the edges. That is then your new cutting edge. See FINE WOODWORKING magazine's website for sharpening "How To videos..."
The scraper is easier to use than sandpaper. It doesn't create dust that has to be carefully removed before you can put on a coat of varnish, just very fine shavings (which are a function of the sharpness of your cutting edges) and leaves no residue on the surface. I have used them for years to redo teak work on my boats.
Connie
Man, I love this list. Always helpful guys.
OK, so with the heat gun I just carefully heat the old finish and scrape, and it should come up? Then, the oxalic acid, do I make a mixture or slurry of some kind? When sanding with 120, given the curves etc. do I just tear off a piece and use my hands? Or do I use a block of some kind to hold the paper? I am really a novice
Daniel On Aug 22, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
word of warning when using oxalic acid ... it _will_ remove galvanizing from a trailer. use lots of water as if you allow the acid to sit for long it can also damage gel coat.
go to a hardware store to get oxalic in powder form as it is inexpensive. the 'teak cleaners and brighteners' you see at West Marine (or similar store) are just overpriced oxalic acid. i have small box of dry oxalic ... maybe 8 oz ... it is still 1/4 full after about four years of use.
always clean the wood using a pad AGAINST the grain. a toothbush really helps to get into the tight corners. if you go with the grain you remove all the softer wood leaving the hard grain 'standing up'. i've done a lot of work on teak. my family boathen growing up was a Cheoy Lee ... a boat 'infested' with teak.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:56 PM, Wilson Frye <fryewe@me.com> wrote:
Hot air gun and plastic scraper to remove the old finish. Bleach out the wood with oxalic acid and then neutralize with baking soda solution use Scotchbrite pad as needed to clean the deeper grain. Sand with 120 grit. Finish with the finish of your choice
On Aug 22, 2014, at 4:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote: > Montypals: > > My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it > had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesnt need to look showroom great, but some help here. > So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? > And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before. > By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. > New sails though! http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-i n -my-favorite-place-again/ > Daniel Rich > M15 #208 "Kestrel" > danielgrich@gmail.com
link here to working with Cetol products - http://www.yachtpaint.com/literaturecentre/cetol-marine-guide.pdf depending on how bad the current Cetol is you may just be able to do some basic sanding, cleaning and apply new coats. if it is bad you need to consider removing all the older Cetol and doing a complete teak cleaning. see discussion in the above linked PDF about removing Cetol. each person had their own preference for protecting their boat's wood. i prefer many many coats of Daly's Seafin - http://www.dalyspaint.com/catalog_seafin.html my next preference is teak oil. you don't need to put on as many coats as with Daly's, though you need to do a coat or two more often. both teak oil and Daly's are very easy to apply as in my experience there is no need to brush on the product nor tape off your teak. i just use a small rag to apply oil or Daly's if you scuff your teak both Daly's and teak oil are easy to apply and create an invisible 'repair'. Cetol, or varnish, you can never make a 'repair' that is invisible. teak oil and Daly's are much less expensive than using Cetol or a good varnish. teak oil nor Daly's will 'dry out in the can'. I've gone 5 or 6 years on one quart of Daly's (look for Daly's in a hardware store ... can find it for 1/2 the price it is sold in West Marine). Cetol, or varnish, take a lot of time apply, brush, and tape off the teak. there is also significant work to be done between coats. do i love the look of a well varnished boat -- YES! i'm not willing to put in that much work. in my opinion many coats of Daly's can give you a finish that is 85% the same as varnish. Cetol is much more durable than varnish. application is about the same as varnish. i personally don't like the color Cetol provides ... though 'Marine Light' isn't as orange as the original. if you like i can provide pictures showing the different finishes from teak oil, Daly's and Cetol Marine Light. i haven't discussed how to prep the wood for a new finish. let me know if you wish to go back to 'bare wood' as how to 'get there' is another longish discussion. -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here.
So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before.
By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though!
http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori...
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
So the oil looks very nice. The question then is how to get the wood to the point of receiving it. Presumably I have to get back somehow to bare wood? D On Aug 22, 2014, at 2:58 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
link here to working with Cetol products -
http://www.yachtpaint.com/literaturecentre/cetol-marine-guide.pdf
depending on how bad the current Cetol is you may just be able to do some basic sanding, cleaning and apply new coats.
if it is bad you need to consider removing all the older Cetol and doing a complete teak cleaning. see discussion in the above linked PDF about removing Cetol.
each person had their own preference for protecting their boat's wood. i prefer many many coats of Daly's Seafin -
http://www.dalyspaint.com/catalog_seafin.html
my next preference is teak oil. you don't need to put on as many coats as with Daly's, though you need to do a coat or two more often. both teak oil and Daly's are very easy to apply as in my experience there is no need to brush on the product nor tape off your teak. i just use a small rag to apply oil or Daly's
if you scuff your teak both Daly's and teak oil are easy to apply and create an invisible 'repair'. Cetol, or varnish, you can never make a 'repair' that is invisible.
teak oil and Daly's are much less expensive than using Cetol or a good varnish. teak oil nor Daly's will 'dry out in the can'. I've gone 5 or 6 years on one quart of Daly's (look for Daly's in a hardware store ... can find it for 1/2 the price it is sold in West Marine).
Cetol, or varnish, take a lot of time apply, brush, and tape off the teak. there is also significant work to be done between coats.
do i love the look of a well varnished boat -- YES! i'm not willing to put in that much work. in my opinion many coats of Daly's can give you a finish that is 85% the same as varnish.
Cetol is much more durable than varnish. application is about the same as varnish. i personally don't like the color Cetol provides ... though 'Marine Light' isn't as orange as the original.
if you like i can provide pictures showing the different finishes from teak oil, Daly's and Cetol Marine Light.
i haven't discussed how to prep the wood for a new finish. let me know if you wish to go back to 'bare wood' as how to 'get there' is another longish discussion.
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Aug 22, 2014 at 3:36 PM, Daniel Rich <danielgrich@gmail.com> wrote:
Montypals:
My teak brightwork is looking rather sorry on my M15. I think it had some kind of cetol coating on it. In any event it is quite weathered. I would like to clean it up and finish it if possible. Doesn’t need to look showroom great, but some help here.
So, what is the process? Do I chemical clean it first somehow? And then regarding sanding it, I assume I mask the areas off and hand sand somehow? What is the process there, and what kind of sand paper? Finally, when properly prepped, what would be a simple coating to paint on there? I have never done anything like this before.
By the way, recent short blog post in Kestrel at my usual place. New sails though!
http://danielsailingandcycling.wordpress.com/2014/08/20/sailing-in-my-favori...
Daniel Rich M15 #208 "Kestrel" danielgrich@gmail.com
participants (6)
-
Bill Tosh -
Conbert Benneck -
Daniel Rich -
Dave Scobie -
Stanley Wheatley -
Wilson Frye