Re: M_Boats: Downhaul system
In a message dated 12/6/2013 3:17:58 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wdscobie@yahoo.com writes: Chris (and others reading): to get an idea for what the sliding gooseneck fitting looks like follow this link - https://www.dwyermast.com/itemdetails.asp?itemID=30 look at item #8, the slide. (the boom side of the gooseneck is close, though not 100% the same as the boats built by Jerry.) my M15, and my M17 had the sailfeed slot's modified by prior owners just a few inches above the mast. a PITA for loading the sail and boom, in additon makes it impossible to use a bolt rope luff (can't reef) and can be problematic for reefing with slugs. this must have become a popular modification at some point as as i've purchased to M-boats that have the same change. to convert my M17 i can't re-bend where the original slot was located as the alum will break. i plan to cut out the slot location. i like the fixed gooseneck for a couple of reasons - #1 is the boom doesn't slam down onto the cabintop when lowing the sail (to take down or when reefing). i've found that using a sail stop works most of the time .. but seems to come loose and then doesn't stop the boom. #2 using a cunningham to control the main's luff tension is very easy and does not require a huge amount of leverage. to control the luff with a moving gooseneck requires a LOT of effort and, because of line stretch, requires repeated adjustment as the wind increases (that is increasingly dif ficult to do as the wind speed increases). :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com -------------------------------------------- On Fri, 12/6/13, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith@gmail.com> wrote: This is a quite timely conversation for me, as I've recently replaced the mast and boom on my M15. My old mast had the boom fixed, but the new mast has the sailfeed opening very low. I was considering using a floating boom so I don't have to cut another, higher opening for the sail above a fixed boom. David, you mention that you like the fixed boom more. Why is that? Clearly, it's worth it to you to go fixed boom... Daniel, it seems like you like your floating boom. Why? Also, does anyone have a picture of a floating boom gooseneck on their M15? It'd be great to see what one looks like. Thus far I've been envisioning a slug attached to 1/2 of the gooseneck that would ride up and down the sail slot. The stop is something I overlooked! Thanks to all for any pro/con discussion on fixed vs floating boom. I've done some reading on it and it seems to be a matter of preference... Really, I just need to make a decision on whether or not to cut a new hole in the mast to feed the sail. Good stuff! Thanks all! Chris M15 Persephone
My experience is like George's. I've used a sliding gooseneck on both an M15 and M17 and haven't encountered any problems. On mine, the gooseneck is prevented from dropping to the cabin-top by a sailslug (a topping lift which is always attached prevents the boom end from dropping), but it has yet to slip, so maybe I've been lucky, or maybe checking it from time to time has paid off. Nor have I found using a downhaul on the boom (compared to a traditional cunningham) been problematic. I use a small block on the ring on the gooseneck (as shown in the Dwyer illustration) and run a bit of low-stretch line a foot or so from an eyestrap on the mast up through the block, and back down a foot to a clamcleat (it's the one that captures the line--I don't know the exact nomenclature) which is also attached to the mast. It doesn't take a lot of effort to sufficiently tighten the luff in my experience, and I've never noticed that the vang or outhaul effecting its operation. Neither my M15 or M17 masts were dicked with sailslot-wise, and the length of the luff of my main goes to near-masthead but allows the gooseneck to locate 6 or 8 inches below the slot so that probably helps. Even reducing sail in horrifying conditions (to me, anyway) I've never experienced the gooseneck popping up and out (a simple knot in the end of the boom downhaul would prevent that anyhow, I think). Regardless, none of these adjustments are rocket science. So long as I keep the luff of the sail smooth, and adjust the outhaul appropriate to conditions, and tighten the vang as needed to control twist, I'm happy. But I'm an 80 percenter. That additional 20%? Not worth the trouble. t t _/\_ On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM, <GILASAILR@aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 12/6/2013 3:17:58 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wdscobie@yahoo.com writes:
Chris (and others reading):
to get an idea for what the sliding gooseneck fitting looks like follow this link -
https://www.dwyermast.com/itemdetails.asp?itemID=30
look at item #8, the slide. (the boom side of the gooseneck is close, though not 100% the same as the boats built by Jerry.)
my M15, and my M17 had the sailfeed slot's modified by prior owners just a few inches above the mast. a PITA for loading the sail and boom, in additon makes it impossible to use a bolt rope luff (can't reef) and can be problematic for reefing with slugs. this must have become a popular modification at some point as as i've purchased to M-boats that have the same change.
to convert my M17 i can't re-bend where the original slot was located as the alum will break. i plan to cut out the slot location.
i like the fixed gooseneck for a couple of reasons -
#1 is the boom doesn't slam down onto the cabintop when lowing the sail (to take down or when reefing). i've found that using a sail stop works most of the time .. but seems to come loose and then doesn't stop the boom.
#2 using a cunningham to control the main's luff tension is very easy and does not require a huge amount of leverage. to control the luff with a moving gooseneck requires a LOT of effort and, because of line stretch, requires repeated adjustment as the wind increases (that is increasingly dif ficult to do as the wind speed increases).
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 12/6/13, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a quite timely conversation for me, as I've recently replaced the mast and boom on my M15. My old mast had the boom fixed, but the new mast has the sailfeed opening very low. I was considering using a floating boom so I don't have to cut another, higher opening for the sail above a fixed boom.
David, you mention that you like the fixed boom more. Why is that? Clearly, it's worth it to you to go fixed boom... Daniel, it seems like you like your floating boom. Why?
Also, does anyone have a picture of a floating boom gooseneck on their M15? It'd be great to see what one looks like. Thus far I've been envisioning a slug attached to 1/2 of the gooseneck that would ride up and down the sail slot. The stop is something I overlooked!
Thanks to all for any pro/con discussion on fixed vs floating boom. I've done some reading on it and it seems to be a matter of preference...
Really, I just need to make a decision on whether or not to cut a new hole in the mast to feed the sail.
Good stuff! Thanks all!
Chris M15 Persephone
Good points all around! It confirms my prior estimation that it's mostly personal preference based on pros and cons. The sail slot in my mast is around 2 feet or less up from the deck, so I'm not worried about it popping up and out, but it will be interesting to figure out the best way to put up the sail initially; on the boom first then up the mast or vice versa? I think I'll try out the floating boom operation and see how it works, then move to fixed if it's unmanageable to single hand with kids in the boat. Updates to follow when summer rolls around... Thanks for the helpful discussion! On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
My experience is like George's. I've used a sliding gooseneck on both an M15 and M17 and haven't encountered any problems.
On mine, the gooseneck is prevented from dropping to the cabin-top by a sailslug (a topping lift which is always attached prevents the boom end from dropping), but it has yet to slip, so maybe I've been lucky, or maybe checking it from time to time has paid off.
Nor have I found using a downhaul on the boom (compared to a traditional cunningham) been problematic. I use a small block on the ring on the gooseneck (as shown in the Dwyer illustration) and run a bit of low-stretch line a foot or so from an eyestrap on the mast up through the block, and back down a foot to a clamcleat (it's the one that captures the line--I don't know the exact nomenclature) which is also attached to the mast. It doesn't take a lot of effort to sufficiently tighten the luff in my experience, and I've never noticed that the vang or outhaul effecting its operation.
Neither my M15 or M17 masts were dicked with sailslot-wise, and the length of the luff of my main goes to near-masthead but allows the gooseneck to locate 6 or 8 inches below the slot so that probably helps. Even reducing sail in horrifying conditions (to me, anyway) I've never experienced the gooseneck popping up and out (a simple knot in the end of the boom downhaul would prevent that anyhow, I think).
Regardless, none of these adjustments are rocket science. So long as I keep the luff of the sail smooth, and adjust the outhaul appropriate to conditions, and tighten the vang as needed to control twist, I'm happy. But I'm an 80 percenter. That additional 20%? Not worth the trouble. t
t _/\_
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM, <GILASAILR@aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 12/6/2013 3:17:58 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wdscobie@yahoo.com writes:
Chris (and others reading):
to get an idea for what the sliding gooseneck fitting looks like follow this link -
https://www.dwyermast.com/itemdetails.asp?itemID=30
look at item #8, the slide. (the boom side of the gooseneck is close, though not 100% the same as the boats built by Jerry.)
my M15, and my M17 had the sailfeed slot's modified by prior owners
just a
few inches above the mast. a PITA for loading the sail and boom, in additon makes it impossible to use a bolt rope luff (can't reef) and can be problematic for reefing with slugs. this must have become a popular modification at some point as as i've purchased to M-boats that have the same change.
to convert my M17 i can't re-bend where the original slot was located as the alum will break. i plan to cut out the slot location.
i like the fixed gooseneck for a couple of reasons -
#1 is the boom doesn't slam down onto the cabintop when lowing the sail (to take down or when reefing). i've found that using a sail stop works most of the time .. but seems to come loose and then doesn't stop the boom.
#2 using a cunningham to control the main's luff tension is very easy and does not require a huge amount of leverage. to control the luff with a moving gooseneck requires a LOT of effort and, because of line stretch, requires repeated adjustment as the wind increases (that is increasingly dif ficult to do as the wind speed increases).
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 12/6/13, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a quite timely conversation for me, as I've recently replaced the mast and boom on my M15. My old mast had the boom fixed, but the new mast has the sailfeed opening very low. I was considering using a floating boom so I don't have to cut another, higher opening for the sail above a fixed boom.
David, you mention that you like the fixed boom more. Why is that? Clearly, it's worth it to you to go fixed boom... Daniel, it seems like you like your floating boom. Why?
Also, does anyone have a picture of a floating boom gooseneck on their M15? It'd be great to see what one looks like. Thus far I've been envisioning a slug attached to 1/2 of the gooseneck that would ride up and down the sail slot. The stop is something I overlooked!
Thanks to all for any pro/con discussion on fixed vs floating boom. I've done some reading on it and it seems to be a matter of preference...
Really, I just need to make a decision on whether or not to cut a new hole in the mast to feed the sail.
Good stuff! Thanks all!
Chris M15 Persephone
-- Chris
Chris: On the boom first. GARY ~~~~_/) ~~~~ On Dec 10, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith@gmail.com> wrote:
Good points all around! It confirms my prior estimation that it's mostly personal preference based on pros and cons. The sail slot in my mast is around 2 feet or less up from the deck, so I'm not worried about it popping up and out, but it will be interesting to figure out the best way to put up the sail initially; on the boom first then up the mast or vice versa?
I think I'll try out the floating boom operation and see how it works, then move to fixed if it's unmanageable to single hand with kids in the boat.
Updates to follow when summer rolls around...
Thanks for the helpful discussion!
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
My experience is like George's. I've used a sliding gooseneck on both an M15 and M17 and haven't encountered any problems.
On mine, the gooseneck is prevented from dropping to the cabin-top by a sailslug (a topping lift which is always attached prevents the boom end from dropping), but it has yet to slip, so maybe I've been lucky, or maybe checking it from time to time has paid off.
Nor have I found using a downhaul on the boom (compared to a traditional cunningham) been problematic. I use a small block on the ring on the gooseneck (as shown in the Dwyer illustration) and run a bit of low-stretch line a foot or so from an eyestrap on the mast up through the block, and back down a foot to a clamcleat (it's the one that captures the line--I don't know the exact nomenclature) which is also attached to the mast. It doesn't take a lot of effort to sufficiently tighten the luff in my experience, and I've never noticed that the vang or outhaul effecting its operation.
Neither my M15 or M17 masts were dicked with sailslot-wise, and the length of the luff of my main goes to near-masthead but allows the gooseneck to locate 6 or 8 inches below the slot so that probably helps. Even reducing sail in horrifying conditions (to me, anyway) I've never experienced the gooseneck popping up and out (a simple knot in the end of the boom downhaul would prevent that anyhow, I think).
Regardless, none of these adjustments are rocket science. So long as I keep the luff of the sail smooth, and adjust the outhaul appropriate to conditions, and tighten the vang as needed to control twist, I'm happy. But I'm an 80 percenter. That additional 20%? Not worth the trouble. t
t _/\_
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM, <GILASAILR@aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 12/6/2013 3:17:58 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wdscobie@yahoo.com writes:
Chris (and others reading):
to get an idea for what the sliding gooseneck fitting looks like follow this link -
https://www.dwyermast.com/itemdetails.asp?itemID=30
look at item #8, the slide. (the boom side of the gooseneck is close, though not 100% the same as the boats built by Jerry.)
my M15, and my M17 had the sailfeed slot's modified by prior owners
just a
few inches above the mast. a PITA for loading the sail and boom, in additon makes it impossible to use a bolt rope luff (can't reef) and can be problematic for reefing with slugs. this must have become a popular modification at some point as as i've purchased to M-boats that have the same change.
to convert my M17 i can't re-bend where the original slot was located as the alum will break. i plan to cut out the slot location.
i like the fixed gooseneck for a couple of reasons -
#1 is the boom doesn't slam down onto the cabintop when lowing the sail (to take down or when reefing). i've found that using a sail stop works most of the time .. but seems to come loose and then doesn't stop the boom.
#2 using a cunningham to control the main's luff tension is very easy and does not require a huge amount of leverage. to control the luff with a moving gooseneck requires a LOT of effort and, because of line stretch, requires repeated adjustment as the wind increases (that is increasingly dif ficult to do as the wind speed increases).
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 12/6/13, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a quite timely conversation for me, as I've recently replaced the mast and boom on my M15. My old mast had the boom fixed, but the new mast has the sailfeed opening very low. I was considering using a floating boom so I don't have to cut another, higher opening for the sail above a fixed boom.
David, you mention that you like the fixed boom more. Why is that? Clearly, it's worth it to you to go fixed boom... Daniel, it seems like you like your floating boom. Why?
Also, does anyone have a picture of a floating boom gooseneck on their M15? It'd be great to see what one looks like. Thus far I've been envisioning a slug attached to 1/2 of the gooseneck that would ride up and down the sail slot. The stop is something I overlooked!
Thanks to all for any pro/con discussion on fixed vs floating boom. I've done some reading on it and it seems to be a matter of preference...
Really, I just need to make a decision on whether or not to cut a new hole in the mast to feed the sail.
Good stuff! Thanks all!
Chris M15 Persephone
-- Chris
I kind of figured... :P Thanks! On Tue, Dec 10, 2013 at 6:38 PM, GARY M HYDE <gmhyde1@mac.com> wrote:
Chris: On the boom first. GARY ~~~~_/) ~~~~
On Dec 10, 2013, at 10:38 AM, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith@gmail.com> wrote:
Good points all around! It confirms my prior estimation that it's mostly personal preference based on pros and cons. The sail slot in my mast is around 2 feet or less up from the deck, so I'm not worried about it popping up and out, but it will be interesting to figure out the best way to put up the sail initially; on the boom first then up the mast or vice versa?
I think I'll try out the floating boom operation and see how it works, then move to fixed if it's unmanageable to single hand with kids in the boat.
Updates to follow when summer rolls around...
Thanks for the helpful discussion!
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Tom Smith <openboatt@gmail.com> wrote:
My experience is like George's. I've used a sliding gooseneck on both an M15 and M17 and haven't encountered any problems.
On mine, the gooseneck is prevented from dropping to the cabin-top by a sailslug (a topping lift which is always attached prevents the boom end from dropping), but it has yet to slip, so maybe I've been lucky, or maybe checking it from time to time has paid off.
Nor have I found using a downhaul on the boom (compared to a traditional cunningham) been problematic. I use a small block on the ring on the gooseneck (as shown in the Dwyer illustration) and run a bit of low-stretch line a foot or so from an eyestrap on the mast up through the block, and back down a foot to a clamcleat (it's the one that captures the line--I don't know the exact nomenclature) which is also attached to the mast. It doesn't take a lot of effort to sufficiently tighten the luff in my experience, and I've never noticed that the vang or outhaul effecting its operation.
Neither my M15 or M17 masts were dicked with sailslot-wise, and the length of the luff of my main goes to near-masthead but allows the gooseneck to locate 6 or 8 inches below the slot so that probably helps. Even reducing sail in horrifying conditions (to me, anyway) I've never experienced the gooseneck popping up and out (a simple knot in the end of the boom downhaul would prevent that anyhow, I think).
Regardless, none of these adjustments are rocket science. So long as I keep the luff of the sail smooth, and adjust the outhaul appropriate to conditions, and tighten the vang as needed to control twist, I'm happy. But I'm an 80 percenter. That additional 20%? Not worth the trouble. t
t _/\_
On Fri, Dec 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM, <GILASAILR@aol.com> wrote:
In a message dated 12/6/2013 3:17:58 P.M. US Mountain Standard Time, wdscobie@yahoo.com writes:
Chris (and others reading):
to get an idea for what the sliding gooseneck fitting looks like
follow
this link -
https://www.dwyermast.com/itemdetails.asp?itemID=30
look at item #8, the slide. (the boom side of the gooseneck is close, though not 100% the same as the boats built by Jerry.)
my M15, and my M17 had the sailfeed slot's modified by prior owners just a few inches above the mast. a PITA for loading the sail and boom, in additon makes it impossible to use a bolt rope luff (can't reef) and can be problematic for reefing with slugs. this must have become a popular modification at some point as as i've purchased to M-boats that have the same change.
to convert my M17 i can't re-bend where the original slot was located as the alum will break. i plan to cut out the slot location.
i like the fixed gooseneck for a couple of reasons -
#1 is the boom doesn't slam down onto the cabintop when lowing the sail (to take down or when reefing). i've found that using a sail stop works most of the time .. but seems to come loose and then doesn't stop the boom.
#2 using a cunningham to control the main's luff tension is very easy and does not require a huge amount of leverage. to control the luff with a moving gooseneck requires a LOT of effort and, because of line stretch, requires repeated adjustment as the wind increases (that is increasingly dif ficult to do as the wind speed increases).
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
-------------------------------------------- On Fri, 12/6/13, Chris Smith <chris.r.smith@gmail.com> wrote:
This is a quite timely conversation for me, as I've recently replaced the mast and boom on my M15. My old mast had the boom fixed, but the new mast has the sailfeed opening very low. I was considering using a floating boom so I don't have to cut another, higher opening for the sail above a fixed boom.
David, you mention that you like the fixed boom more. Why is that? Clearly, it's worth it to you to go fixed boom... Daniel, it seems like you like your floating boom. Why?
Also, does anyone have a picture of a floating boom gooseneck on their M15? It'd be great to see what one looks like. Thus far I've been envisioning a slug attached to 1/2 of the gooseneck that would ride up and down the sail slot. The stop is something I overlooked!
Thanks to all for any pro/con discussion on fixed vs floating boom. I've done some reading on it and it seems to be a matter of preference...
Really, I just need to make a decision on whether or not to cut a new hole in the mast to feed the sail.
Good stuff! Thanks all!
Chris M15 Persephone
-- Chris
-- Chris
participants (4)
-
Chris Smith -
GARY M HYDE -
GILASAILR＠aol.com -
Tom Smith