RE: M_Boats: My Original M17 Rudder
Hi All; My '78 M-17 also has the straight rudder. I would like to try the under slung rudder. My assumption is that it is closer to a true foil (i.e., it can serve as an underwater sail). Who has a picture? cheers- Shawn Boles Grey Mist (M17 #276 1978) -----Original Message----- From: Honshells [mailto:chonshell@ia4u.net] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: My Original M17 Rudder The original rudder on my '84 M17 doesn't have that configuration, Tom. It's a straight up-and-down affair, an enormous chunk of laminated mahogany, like the blade that Bob is using now (see http://www.montgomeryboats.com/images/m17-photo-b-16-500x.jpg ). I've switched to a kick-up . . . I would like to sail an M17 with that Hess blade, to see if there is a difference in the feel of the helm. --Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smith, Tom" <Tom.Smith@itron.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:59 PM Subject: M17 Rudder Jerry said Lyle Hess designed the original under-slung rudder (no, that's not an authorized, technical term...). And if the goal was to balance the helm, it does a fine job. Our M17 requires just the lightest touch to steer, and weather helm is very light. The boat loves to sail itself... t Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar M17-064, Unnamed _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
does any one have picture of this under-rudder
I do, Mike . . . I'll send it off-list . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "MC" <southisland2@earthlink.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 11:35 PM Subject: My Original M17 Rudder does any one have picture of this under-rudder
send it on list Craig I would like to see it. gilbert
Unfortunately, the list doesn't accept large attachments, and I don't have a website, but I'll send the pics directly to you . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "GILBERT" <gilbert@mindgame.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 9:39 AM Subject: My Original M17 Rudder send it on list Craig I would like to see it. gilbert
As a "coastal cruiser", I'm not really concerned about positive floatation for my M17 personally, but I am responding to the exchanges prompted by Mike Carpenter's questions . . . I would attend to agree with Connie that the best strategy is never to allow water below. But I also see Mike's point that some incident could puncture the hull. My teachers used to tell me, "There are no dumb questions." The following might truly be a dumb question, but I'll risk it anyway: What about watertight bulkheads for the M17? For instance, if a M17 is sailed in an area in which there is a risk that the hull could be holed by a run-in with a submerged container, whatever, could the bow, up under the v-berth, be isolated with another bulkhead forward, so that if it were punctured, the water would be contained? The bulkhead would have to be glassed directly to the hull, and not just the liner, of course, but (I haven't been on my boat since November, '03) don't the v-berth hatches open to the bare hull below? And couldn't you 'glass a decent-sized "watertight compartment" under the M17's v-berth, yet still leave room for the battery, the port-a-potty, and a few other items? And couldn't you do the same in the quarterberths: Simply 'glass-in watertight compartments, making sure they're 'glassed directly to the hull? I read British sailing magazines, and it seems Europe (yes, I know Britons do not consider themselves "Europeans") is even more obsessed with safety than the U.S., and has stricter regulations, requiring a minimum amount of positive flotation for recreational vessels. And I remember reading about a small traditionally-styled fiberglass daysailer that featured watertight bulkheads instead of foam-flotation. The builder said that he switched to watertight compartments because no matter what type of foam was used in construction, it would eventually take on water and add weight, as well as lose buoyancy. If a fiberglass daysailer builder in Britain (and I believe the boat I describe was a 17 or 18' open boat) can add watertight compartments to his little trailerables to give them certified positive flotation, perhaps an enterprising M17 owner could retrofit them?
Craig, have you considered inner tubes? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Honshells" <chonshell@ia4u.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2004 10:55 PM Subject: M_Boats: positive flotation
As a "coastal cruiser", I'm not really concerned about positive floatation
for my M17 personally, but I am
responding to the exchanges prompted by Mike Carpenter's questions . . .
I would attend to agree with Connie that the best strategy is never to allow water below. But I also see Mike's point that some incident could puncture the hull.
My teachers used to tell me, "There are no dumb questions." The following might truly be a dumb question, but I'll risk it anyway: What about watertight bulkheads for the M17? For instance, if a M17 is sailed in an area in which there is a risk that the hull could be holed by a run-in with a submerged container, whatever, could the bow, up under the v-berth, be isolated with another bulkhead forward, so that if it were punctured, the water would be contained? The bulkhead would have to be glassed directly to the hull, and not just the liner, of course, but (I haven't been on my boat since November, '03) don't the v-berth hatches open to the bare hull below? And couldn't you 'glass a decent-sized "watertight compartment" under the M17's v-berth, yet still leave room for the battery, the port-a-potty, and a few other items? And couldn't you do the same in the quarterberths: Simply 'glass-in watertight compartments, making sure they're 'glassed directly to the hull?
I read British sailing magazines, and it seems Europe (yes, I know Britons do not consider themselves "Europeans") is even more obsessed with safety than the U.S., and has stricter regulations, requiring a minimum amount of positive flotation for recreational vessels. And I remember reading about a small traditionally-styled fiberglass daysailer that featured watertight bulkheads instead of foam-flotation. The builder said that he switched to watertight compartments because no matter what type of foam was used in construction, it would eventually take on water and add weight, as well as lose buoyancy.
If a fiberglass daysailer builder in Britain (and I believe the boat I describe was a 17 or 18' open boat) can add watertight compartments to his little trailerables to give them certified positive flotation, perhaps an enterprising M17 owner could retrofit them?
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Shawn, I sent pics to you and Mike, but they didn't deliver to your address . . . Can you send your email address to me @ chonshell@ia4u.net? Thanks, Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Shawn Boles" <shawn@ori.org> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 10:41 PM Subject: My Original M17 Rudder Hi All; My '78 M-17 also has the straight rudder. I would like to try the under slung rudder. My assumption is that it is closer to a true foil (i.e., it can serve as an underwater sail). Who has a picture? cheers- Shawn Boles Grey Mist (M17 #276 1978) -----Original Message----- From: Honshells [mailto:chonshell@ia4u.net] Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 7:27 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: My Original M17 Rudder The original rudder on my '84 M17 doesn't have that configuration, Tom. It's a straight up-and-down affair, an enormous chunk of laminated mahogany, like the blade that Bob is using now (see http://www.montgomeryboats.com/images/m17-photo-b-16-500x.jpg ). I've switched to a kick-up . . . I would like to sail an M17 with that Hess blade, to see if there is a difference in the feel of the helm. --Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Smith, Tom" <Tom.Smith@itron.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2004 9:59 PM Subject: M17 Rudder Jerry said Lyle Hess designed the original under-slung rudder (no, that's not an authorized, technical term...). And if the goal was to balance the helm, it does a fine job. Our M17 requires just the lightest touch to steer, and weather helm is very light. The boat loves to sail itself... t Tom Smith & Jane Van Winkle Sandpoint, Idaho M15-345, Chukar M17-064, Unnamed
participants (5)
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GILBERT -
Honshells -
MC -
n9ca -
Shawn Boles