Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
Tom, Using the diameter gauge that came with my Loos gauge, my backstay measures 1/8, which is the same as all 4 side stays. The forestay measures 5/32. Whether they're the originals I don't know, and mine is a 1977 model. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 4:07 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best) Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included) Fair winds Bob
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
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Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes, and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best)
Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included)
Fair winds Bob
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
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Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price? ~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2' On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes, and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best)
Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included)
Fair winds Bob
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
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Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind. Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey? http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602|298804&id=205004 Best Wishes, Tom On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes, and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best)
Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included)
Fair winds Bob
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
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This looks like a great solution for a trailer-sailer (one less gizmo to rig). I assume it would be rigged at the "Y", so one would have to stand up to adjust it. Anyone have a quick user review? I'm mostly interested if they work smoothly or if they really need a wrench to adjust under tension. By the way: Ix-nay on the icy-pray. Wife reviewing udget-bay. Jim M17 "Spirit" On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind.
Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602|298804&id=205004
Best Wishes, Tom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes, and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best)
Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included)
Fair winds Bob
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Yeah, Jim, 5 bucks is pretty pricey for a little piece of bronze, but your wife might understand. If I changed the backstay tension every time I tacked or the wind speed changed, I would probably buy one of those split backstay adjusters, but I don't and won't. I just don't want to mess around with pliers and cotter keys every time I tension the furler or take the mast up and down. Fact is, if you'all will wait a few days, I will try it out and report back. Tom M17 Scintilla On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:36 PM, James Poulakis wrote:
This looks like a great solution for a trailer-sailer (one less gizmo to rig). I assume it would be rigged at the "Y", so one would have to stand up to adjust it. Anyone have a quick user review? I'm mostly interested if they work smoothly or if they really need a wrench to adjust under tension.
By the way: Ix-nay on the icy-pray. Wife reviewing udget-bay.
Jim M17 "Spirit"
On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind.
Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602| 298804&id=205004
Best Wishes, Tom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes, and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best)
Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included)
Fair winds Bob
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/ montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Tom: How will you attach it to the backstay? ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺ On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind.
Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602|298804&id=205004
Best Wishes, Tom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes, and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best)
Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included)
Fair winds Bob
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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Gary, As far as I can tell without having one to hand, the model I bought is the same size as my present turnbuckle, with a jawed toggle on the bottom secured to the triatic plate with a 1/4 inch pin. The device doesn't come with its own backstay, so I assume my backstay (hopefully with 1/4-28 threads) screws into the top of the turnbuckle in the standard way, although the picture shows a nut on the end. Frankly, I wish I had looked at Larry's installation on Corndog more closely, but the thing looked so simple that I was not concerned. As I say, we shall see. http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/z00033.htm On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: How will you attach it to the backstay? ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind.
Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602| 298804&id=205004
Best Wishes, Tom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes, and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best)
Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included)
Fair winds Bob
To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com From: tjenk@gte.net Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Hi gang, I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". Thanks, Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
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Thanks, Tom. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺ On Jul 8, 2011, at 5:11 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, As far as I can tell without having one to hand, the model I bought is the same size as my present turnbuckle, with a jawed toggle on the bottom secured to the triatic plate with a 1/4 inch pin. The device doesn't come with its own backstay, so I assume my backstay (hopefully with 1/4-28 threads) screws into the top of the turnbuckle in the standard way, although the picture shows a nut on the end. Frankly, I wish I had looked at Larry's installation on Corndog more closely, but the thing looked so simple that I was not concerned. As I say, we shall see.
http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/z00033.htm
On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: How will you attach it to the backstay? ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind.
Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602|298804&id=205004
Best Wishes, Tom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes, and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best)
Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included)
Fair winds Bob
> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com > From: tjenk@gte.net > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 > Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay > > Hi gang, > I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 > model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? > (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? > The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". > Thanks, > Tom Jenkins > M17 Scintilla > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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I've heard a couple of comments regarding the use of a backstay adjuster that squeezes the split stays. Is there some reason not to do this. I have an adjuster on my M17 that is a simple 3 purchase pulley and a cam cleat that works very well but I'm curious why squeezing the split stays is taboo for some. Just curious. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary M Hyde To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:39 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay Thanks, Tom. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺ On Jul 8, 2011, at 5:11 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, As far as I can tell without having one to hand, the model I bought is the same size as my present turnbuckle, with a jawed toggle on the bottom secured to the triatic plate with a 1/4 inch pin. The device doesn't come with its own backstay, so I assume my backstay (hopefully with 1/4-28 threads) screws into the top of the turnbuckle in the standard way, although the picture shows a nut on the end. Frankly, I wish I had looked at Larry's installation on Corndog more closely, but the thing looked so simple that I was not concerned. As I say, we shall see.
http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/z00033.htm
On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: How will you attach it to the backstay? ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind.
Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602|298804&id=205004
Best Wishes, Tom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes, and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster. Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best)
Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included)
Fair winds Bob
> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com > From: tjenk@gte.net > Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 > Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay > > Hi gang, > I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 > model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? > (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? > The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". > Thanks, > Tom Jenkins > M17 Scintilla > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
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When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
I'm still curious how much pointing ability you gain with a backstay adjuster (to tension the forestay) along with cranking down the tension on the jib halyard? This assumes you also have the mast rake dialed in to give you a bit of weather helm and sheet angles right and sails set to get all the telltales flying the way they should be. I ask as while I can tack to about 60 degrees to the apparent wind (measured on the masthead wind direction arrow set to a 60 degree angle), I've never been able to tack through 90 degrees actual. GPS tracking tells the tale. Always seems to be a bit of leeway. On Jul 9, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
I've heard a couple of comments regarding the use of a backstay adjuster that squeezes the split stays. Is there some reason not to do this. I have an adjuster on my M17 that is a simple 3 purchase pulley and a cam cleat that works very well but I'm curious why squeezing the split stays is taboo for some. Just curious. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary M Hyde To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:39 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Thanks, Tom. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
I find that using the plate type sheave only back stay adjuster 38-201 from Johnson http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/00036.htm does help on upwind work AND going down wind too, as it lets the rig move forward some and the jib can fill better. Going upwind, the forestay needs more tension on it to remove sag, and just cranking the jib halyard tension only seems to actually pull the mast forward which you don't want. As Howard mentioned you do need to have the mast rake set up already. Julie and I were working on an empty 3 buoy triangular course today, and found our leg times were better when we fell off a bit after tacking to get the boat speed back when tacking upwind. Gave the apparent wind time to get forward. Going from down wind to upwind legs a few times repeatedly showed us the value of using the backstay adjuster. Set up with a clamcleat on the stbd leg of the split was very fast and easy to snug up or let off. I would not like to be standing up and spinning a turnbuckle at the Y. I do like the look of the turnbuckle for the forestay when rigging. (no furler here) Don't have a mast head wind indicator or GPS, so can't tell you the exact angles we tacked. Probably 110-120 degrees. Working the pin stop traveller on every tack, convinced me to look at the windward sheeting car mentioned here previously. I never really bothered adjusting the traveller much on the M17 before, but 3 days of sailing this weekend showed me the value in it. We got a much better feel for its use, even with the short length on the cockpit floor. Regards, Bill Wickett Makin' Time M17 #622 On Sat, Jul 9, 2011 at 11:24 AM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net>wrote:
I'm still curious how much pointing ability you gain with a backstay adjuster (to tension the forestay) along with cranking down the tension on the jib halyard? This assumes you also have the mast rake dialed in to give you a bit of weather helm and sheet angles right and sails set to get all the telltales flying the way they should be.
I ask as while I can tack to about 60 degrees to the apparent wind (measured on the masthead wind direction arrow set to a 60 degree angle), I've never been able to tack through 90 degrees actual. GPS tracking tells the tale. Always seems to be a bit of leeway.
On Jul 9, 2011, at 9:37 AM, Joe Murphy wrote:
I've heard a couple of comments regarding the use of a backstay adjuster that squeezes the split stays. Is there some reason not to do this. I have an adjuster on my M17 that is a simple 3 purchase pulley and a cam cleat that works very well but I'm curious why squeezing the split stays is taboo for some. Just curious. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary M Hyde To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:39 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Thanks, Tom. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
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Joe- I actually prefer the 'squeezer" type of adjuster; It's instant in that it releases instantly, and you can visually look at it see exactly how tight it is. If adjusted properly, the rig is loose enough to stick in the pin at the headstay, and in normal conditions, when turning downwind, you just pop the control line out of the cleat and the jib automatically becomes fuller. If there is more wind, you can still leave some of the tension on it to keep things a bit flatter if you want. This type of adjuster is not quite as clean in that it's got a couple of small blocks and some line dragging in the wind but it actually works very well on small boats. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 7:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
I've heard a couple of comments regarding the use of a backstay adjuster that squeezes the split stays. Is there some reason not to do this. I have an adjuster on my M17 that is a simple 3 purchase pulley and a cam cleat that works very well but I'm curious why squeezing the split stays is taboo for some. Just curious. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary M Hyde To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:39 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Thanks, Tom. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
On Jul 8, 2011, at 5:11 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, As far as I can tell without having one to hand, the model I bought is the same size as my present turnbuckle, with a jawed toggle on the bottom secured to the triatic plate with a 1/4 inch pin. The device doesn't come with its own backstay, so I assume my backstay (hopefully with 1/4-28 threads) screws into the top of the turnbuckle in the standard way, although the picture shows a nut on the end. Frankly, I wish I had looked at Larry's installation on Corndog more closely, but the thing looked so simple that I was not concerned. As I say, we shall see.
http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/z00033.htm
On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: How will you attach it to the backstay? ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind.
Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602|298804&id=205004
Best Wishes, Tom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes,
and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster.
Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
> > Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best) > > Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included) > > Fair winds > Bob > > >> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com >> From: tjenk@gte.net >> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 >> Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay >> >> Hi gang, >> I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 >> model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? >> (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? >> The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". >> Thanks, >> Tom Jenkins >> M17 Scintilla >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
Jerry, Last year I used your advice for the bits and pieces to make an adjuster and found it to be very easy to use. And yes, you can see immediately the results of tensioning the adjuster. I just wasn't sure why some folks were steering away from squeezing the split stays. So there's no problem that affect the integrity of the stays?? Thanks, Joe M17 SeaFrog----- Original Message ----- From: jerry To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:25 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay Joe- I actually prefer the 'squeezer" type of adjuster; It's instant in that it releases instantly, and you can visually look at it see exactly how tight it is. If adjusted properly, the rig is loose enough to stick in the pin at the headstay, and in normal conditions, when turning downwind, you just pop the control line out of the cleat and the jib automatically becomes fuller. If there is more wind, you can still leave some of the tension on it to keep things a bit flatter if you want. This type of adjuster is not quite as clean in that it's got a couple of small blocks and some line dragging in the wind but it actually works very well on small boats. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 7:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
I've heard a couple of comments regarding the use of a backstay adjuster that squeezes the split stays. Is there some reason not to do this. I have an adjuster on my M17 that is a simple 3 purchase pulley and a cam cleat that works very well but I'm curious why squeezing the split stays is taboo for some. Just curious. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary M Hyde To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:39 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Thanks, Tom. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
On Jul 8, 2011, at 5:11 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, As far as I can tell without having one to hand, the model I bought is the same size as my present turnbuckle, with a jawed toggle on the bottom secured to the triatic plate with a 1/4 inch pin. The device doesn't come with its own backstay, so I assume my backstay (hopefully with 1/4-28 threads) screws into the top of the turnbuckle in the standard way, although the picture shows a nut on the end. Frankly, I wish I had looked at Larry's installation on Corndog more closely, but the thing looked so simple that I was not concerned. As I say, we shall see.
http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/z00033.htm
On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: How will you attach it to the backstay? ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind.
Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602|298804&id=205004
Best Wishes, Tom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes,
and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster.
Tom Jenkins 2004 M17 Scintilla
On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote:
> > Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best) > > Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included) > > Fair winds > Bob > > >> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com >> From: tjenk@gte.net >> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 >> Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay >> >> Hi gang, >> I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 >> model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? >> (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? >> The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". >> Thanks, >> Tom Jenkins >> M17 Scintilla >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
None that I know of! jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 10:44 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Jerry, Last year I used your advice for the bits and pieces to make an adjuster and found it to be very easy to use. And yes, you can see immediately the results of tensioning the adjuster. I just wasn't sure why some folks were steering away from squeezing the split stays. So there's no problem that affect the integrity of the stays?? Thanks, Joe M17 SeaFrog----- Original Message ----- From: jerry To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 9:25 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Joe- I actually prefer the 'squeezer" type of adjuster; It's instant in that it releases instantly, and you can visually look at it see exactly how tight it is. If adjusted properly, the rig is loose enough to stick in the pin at the headstay, and in normal conditions, when turning downwind, you just pop the control line out of the cleat and the jib automatically becomes fuller. If there is more wind, you can still leave some of the tension on it to keep things a bit flatter if you want. This type of adjuster is not quite as clean in that it's got a couple of small blocks and some line dragging in the wind but it actually works very well on small boats.
jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Murphy" <seagray@embarqmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, July 09, 2011 7:37 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
I've heard a couple of comments regarding the use of a backstay adjuster that squeezes the split stays. Is there some reason not to do this. I have an adjuster on my M17 that is a simple 3 purchase pulley and a cam cleat that works very well but I'm curious why squeezing the split stays is taboo for some. Just curious. Joe ----- Original Message ----- From: Gary M Hyde To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Sent: Friday, July 08, 2011 11:39 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Thanks, Tom. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
On Jul 8, 2011, at 5:11 PM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, As far as I can tell without having one to hand, the model I bought is the same size as my present turnbuckle, with a jawed toggle on the bottom secured to the triatic plate with a 1/4 inch pin. The device doesn't come with its own backstay, so I assume my backstay (hopefully with 1/4-28 threads) screws into the top of the turnbuckle in the standard way, although the picture shows a nut on the end. Frankly, I wish I had looked at Larry's installation on Corndog more closely, but the thing looked so simple that I was not concerned. As I say, we shall see.
http://www.csjohnson.com/marinecatalog/z00033.htm
On Jul 8, 2011, at 3:57 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: How will you attach it to the backstay? ~~~_/)~~~ Gary ☺
On Jul 8, 2011, at 9:18 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Gary, I looked at all the options, and I decided that the simple solution Larry used was better for a simple person like me than one of those rigs that squeezes the split backstay. As you can see if the link below works, the rig is not cheap, but I could find the 01-114 model only at Defender, and the price seemed to be about the same everywhere. Hopefully it will do what I have in mind.
Have you noticed that nautical stuff containing bronze and/or stainless steel is pricey?
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|118|107602|298804&id=205004
Best Wishes, Tom
On Jul 7, 2011, at 6:42 PM, Gary M Hyde wrote:
Tom: Where will you buy the "Handy Lock"? Price?
~~~_/)~~~Gary Hyde 2005 M17 #637 sailboat 'Hydeaway 2'
On Jul 5, 2011, at 11:53 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
> Thanks, Bob. That clears up the matter of different wire sizes,
and now I am sure what I have. My backstay does not need to be replaced yet, but I need the size so I can order the correct "Handy Lock" backstay adjuster.
> Tom Jenkins > 2004 M17 Scintilla > > On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:45 AM, Bob Eeg wrote: > >> >> Tom...we use 1/8 inch for the backstay and 5/32 for the headstay. (to run various headstay furlers 5/32 works best) >> >> Price on a new backstay (not counting the legs) with stud for the turnbuckle and eye at the top is $35 (postage not included) >> >> Fair winds >> Bob >> >> >>> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com >>> From: tjenk@gte.net >>> Date: Mon, 4 Jul 2011 14:06:52 -0700 >>> Subject: M_Boats: M17 backstay >>> >>> Hi gang, >>> I am having a time getting the backstay wire diameter on my M17 '04 >>> model; my dial calipers say just over 1/8, but not definitively 5/32? >>> (actually the reading is about 9/64). Anybody have the true figure? >>> The thread size on the swaging appears to be 1/4". >>> Thanks, >>> Tom Jenkins >>> M17 Scintilla >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >>> >>> When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! >> >> _______________________________________________ >> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats >> >> When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! > > > _______________________________________________ > http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats > > When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
When posting, remember that there is no privacy on the Internet!
Jerry, aren't the split backstays for a backstay tensioner system supposed to be longer than stock (and thus the backstay itself shorter than stock? t
Not really- there should be enough play in the turnbuckle to compensate. If you're asking if the proportion should be different in order to get more leverage, I don't think more leverage is needed. On the Sage, we've moved the backstay chainplates in a bit, which does give more leverage, but the real reason we did that is to get the bridle inboard and out of the way of lifting the %*&# motor or just working on it. jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Smith" <openboatt@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, July 11, 2011 12:14 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M17 backstay
Jerry, aren't the split backstays for a backstay tensioner system supposed to be longer than stock (and thus the backstay itself shorter than stock? t
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participants (10)
-
Bill Wickett -
Bob Eeg -
Gary M Hyde -
Howard Audsley -
James Poulakis -
jerry -
Joe Murphy -
Rich Makela -
Tom Jenkins -
Tom Smith