My rudder does kick up on its own, yes. I run a rope from the rudder blade, through a fiberglass "eye", fiberglassed to the lowest point on the back of the skeg (I'll send pics of this to Doug to post on the MSOG site when I get them digitized), to keep the blade deployed underway (the blade isn't heavy enough to stay down on its own, and wouldn't be practical if it was). I use a "stretchy" rope, lead to a cam-cleat at the top of the rudder stock. This is an imperfect solution, though, because twice I've grounded hard enough that the "down" rope damaged the skeg-eye. Next season, the inside diameter of the eye will be lined with a stainless or bronze tube, and the "rope" will be a bungy: I think this combination, stronger skeg-eye, stretchier rope, will prevent grounding damage. So, yes, my rudder, as currently configured, kicks up on its own when I ground, although really hard groundings have unpleasant consequences, and I hope that next season's solution will accommodate really hard groundings with no consequences whatsoever . . . I have a rope that lifts the blade, also, for retrieval at the boat-ramp, or for shallow-water sailing (although, with shallow-water sailing, expect very heavy helm with the "L" shaped position of the blade, a problem people with the stock 17' rudder don't have). I suppose, when shallow-water sailing, I could control the depth/angle of the blade with tension between the lifting rope and the "downhaul" (rope through the skeg-eye): I haven't done enough shallow-water sailing to bother to try this yet, so my experience with the blade is in two positions, all the way up, and all the way down. I love my kick-up: It allows a transom-mount traveler, and, ideally (when I make the changes described above), will free me from worrying about groundings. When the blade is fully deployed, I don't notice any difference in helm or performance from the old stock rudder. The kick-up isn't for everyone, but it's been a good change for me, with Lake Michigan water levels at record lows. ----- Original Message ----- From: <IDCLLC@aol.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2003 11:22 PM Subject: Grounding durability All your points made about grounding are good ones. A kickup rudder is de riguer around here. I have seen and sailed a Montgomery once-an M-15, and a beautiful boat it was. It had a very cool kickup rudder that actuated by raising the tiller. Does this rudder "kick up" on its own when it hits an obstruction? Steve Tyree, P-15 #2098 "Amy Ann"