Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322
Hi Cherri, No, your not missing anything. The M15 drain is two way not one way and as far as I know, all M15's are like that. Different members of this group have addressed the problem in different ways. I just have a sponge jammed in each side of the drain hole. So far that is stopping the water from coming in. Of course, it also stops it from going out. Hopefully some of the other folks will chime in with a more elegant solution. Glad you had an enjoyable sail. Don Olson M15 Phoenix, Az
Cherri, You have discovered the only flaw in the M15 :) The good news is that you have good boat speed! (motoring?) The most common solutions are: - ignore it but keep your feet out of the water - take a celluloid sponge 4" x6" and cut it in half and stuff a piece of wet sponge under each side of the teak pennant guide. - get wet feet The prolem with the sponge is that you do not have a cockpit drain until the water is over the top of the pennant guide. I sail with wet feet and use cheap sea boots in cold weather. Doug --- Mark Pavuk <mcpavuk@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322
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On my older M17, I sometimes get water backflowing in, but that's more of a factor of fore and aft balance. If crew moves to the stern, water flows in...move the crew forward and it runs out. But the 17 drains out the stern. I recall the 15 drains into the cb trunk or some similar fore location. Is this something a teak grate on the cockpit sole would solve? Howard
Eventually, I'd like to try that solution on my 17, Howard: I think teak grates are very aesthetically appealing. --Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Howard Audsley" <haudsley@tranquility.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 10:19 PM Subject: cockpit drain On my older M17, I sometimes get water backflowing in, but that's more of a factor of fore and aft balance. If crew moves to the stern, water flows in...move the crew forward and it runs out. But the 17 drains out the stern. I recall the 15 drains into the cb trunk or some similar fore location. Is this something a teak grate on the cockpit sole would solve? Howard _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
It just so happens that I have been turning this issue (cockpit drain backwash) over and over in my head for the past couple of days. The reason is, I recently removed the teak pennant guide and have ground away a good deal of the fiberglass around the drain hole, as a small part of a larger project that began a few weeks ago with a centerboard that wouldn't drop, and is going to end with a complete refurbishment of my keel stub, centerboard trunk, centerboard, and cockpit drain. And the big question that has been getting me lately is: Why isn't there SOME permanent solution to the drain backwash problem on the M15s? There must be an answer. What is it? With the teak piece gone, the drain opening is actually quite large, about 1 inch by 2 inches I'd say. BUT consider: it is at the top of an inverted triangular slot, the centerboard slot, which means that as water pressure causes water to move up the slot, it is progresively accelerated by the ever-narrowing passage, until it is forced with some considerably multiplied hydraulic pressure up the through the drain hole. It seems like, with the centerboard removed, one should be able to install some kind of a "valve" or flap that would allow water to move downward with ease (necessary) but not UPward at all. Whatever kind of spring loading kept the valve flap up, it would have to be something weak enough that even small amounts of water from above would overcome it. The other possibility might be some kind of a float that would jam itself up into the hole from below when water was moving upward. Come on people, put on your thinking caps! I'm willing to be the guinea pig for whatever good idea we can come up with. (I've got the think all taken apart and up on stands anyway) It needs to be something both simple and reliable. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pavuk" <mcpavuk@worldnet.att.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:42 Subject: M_Boats: cockpit drain
Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322
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Steve, There is really no solution other than to get one of those mats that bartenders use (and boat shops sell) that are about 1" thick and made of alternating squares (checkerboard pattern) of rubber, trim it and throw it on the floor of the cockpit. The design of the drain makes water come up sometimes when tacking into the wind, and other conditions, in rough water... the waves force the water up; your "hydraulic pressure" analogy is correct. There is no simple solution to this... but the mat will keep your feet dry, and allow the water to drain back out. At 9:01 PM -0500 4/24/02, Steve McClellan \(at Home\) wrote:
It just so happens that I have been turning this issue (cockpit drain backwash) over and over in my head for the past couple of days.
The reason is, I recently removed the teak pennant guide and have ground away a good deal of the fiberglass around the drain hole, as a small part of a larger project that began a few weeks ago with a centerboard that wouldn't drop, and is going to end with a complete refurbishment of my keel stub, centerboard trunk, centerboard, and cockpit drain.
And the big question that has been getting me lately is: Why isn't there SOME permanent solution to the drain backwash problem on the M15s? There must be an answer. What is it?
With the teak piece gone, the drain opening is actually quite large, about 1 inch by 2 inches I'd say. BUT consider: it is at the top of an inverted triangular slot, the centerboard slot, which means that as water pressure causes water to move up the slot, it is progresively accelerated by the ever-narrowing passage, until it is forced with some considerably multiplied hydraulic pressure up the through the drain hole.
It seems like, with the centerboard removed, one should be able to install some kind of a "valve" or flap that would allow water to move downward with ease (necessary) but not UPward at all. Whatever kind of spring loading kept the valve flap up, it would have to be something weak enough that even small amounts of water from above would overcome it.
The other possibility might be some kind of a float that would jam itself up into the hole from below when water was moving upward.
Come on people, put on your thinking caps! I'm willing to be the guinea pig for whatever good idea we can come up with. (I've got the think all taken apart and up on stands anyway) It needs to be something both simple and reliable.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pavuk" <mcpavuk@worldnet.att.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:42 Subject: M_Boats: cockpit drain
Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322 -- Cal Spooner M15 #402 spoon@visi.com cspooner@mn.rr.com 763.574.1482
Cal, I have had similar wet cockpit problems with my M17. I was getting water in from both the center board pennant, and the transom drains. My solution is rubber stoppers in the drains, and rubber rigging tape (the kind that only sticks to itself) wrapped around the centerboard pennant in a tapered fashion, and stuffed into the pennant hole. This keeps the cockpit dry as a bone, and when conditions start getting nasty, I pull out the transom drain stoppers. I figure, if there's water coming in over the combings, it doesn't much matter if there's water splashing in though the cockpit drains. All this is to say; maybe you could devise a way to plug the drain when you don't need the drainage. Cautionary note: If you keep your boat in the water or dry store it outside, don't forget to pull the plug(s) so that rain water can drain out! I read a story of a Potter 15 owner who came back to his "stopped up" boat after a rain storm to find his cabin flooded and boat half sunk! By the grace of God, I haven't pulled this stunt yet :) Fair Winds, Bob Campbell Montgomery 17 #615 "Alina" Lodi, CA -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Cal Spooner Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:32 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: cockpit drain backwash Steve, There is really no solution other than to get one of those mats that bartenders use (and boat shops sell) that are about 1" thick and made of alternating squares (checkerboard pattern) of rubber, trim it and throw it on the floor of the cockpit. The design of the drain makes water come up sometimes when tacking into the wind, and other conditions, in rough water... the waves force the water up; your "hydraulic pressure" analogy is correct. There is no simple solution to this... but the mat will keep your feet dry, and allow the water to drain back out. At 9:01 PM -0500 4/24/02, Steve McClellan \(at Home\) wrote:
It just so happens that I have been turning this issue (cockpit drain backwash) over and over in my head for the past couple of days.
The reason is, I recently removed the teak pennant guide and have ground away a good deal of the fiberglass around the drain hole, as a small part of a larger project that began a few weeks ago with a centerboard that wouldn't drop, and is going to end with a complete refurbishment of my keel stub, centerboard trunk, centerboard, and cockpit drain.
And the big question that has been getting me lately is: Why isn't there SOME permanent solution to the drain backwash problem on the M15s? There must be an answer. What is it?
With the teak piece gone, the drain opening is actually quite large, about 1 inch by 2 inches I'd say. BUT consider: it is at the top of an inverted triangular slot, the centerboard slot, which means that as water pressure causes water to move up the slot, it is progresively accelerated by the ever-narrowing passage, until it is forced with some considerably multiplied hydraulic pressure up the through the drain hole.
It seems like, with the centerboard removed, one should be able to install some kind of a "valve" or flap that would allow water to move downward with ease (necessary) but not UPward at all. Whatever kind of spring loading kept the valve flap up, it would have to be something weak enough that even small amounts of water from above would overcome it.
The other possibility might be some kind of a float that would jam itself up into the hole from below when water was moving upward.
Come on people, put on your thinking caps! I'm willing to be the guinea pig for whatever good idea we can come up with. (I've got the think all taken apart and up on stands anyway) It needs to be something both simple and reliable.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pavuk" <mcpavuk@worldnet.att.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:42 Subject: M_Boats: cockpit drain
Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322 -- Cal Spooner M15 #402 spoon@visi.com cspooner@mn.rr.com 763.574.1482
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Hi Bob and Cherri, On the M15 the CB Pennant hole is the only drain. It's covered with a teak board on the later models kinda like a 1" x 4" about 8" wide that's got a hole in the middle just big enough for the pennant line. Its function is to keep the water from splashing up at you. The water draining goes around the board and drains through the sides under it to the drain. So plugging the drain isn't possible in any case; you can't get to it without removing the board. I think Connie said he had to install the teak board... strange, his hull # is 400 & mine is 402. Mine came with it, factory laid fiberglass around it. If you don't have the board, Cherri, by all means get one and put it in per Connie's instructions. It'll at least keep the water from splashing UP at you. The solution (workaround?) posed by others is to take a sponge, cut it in two, and shove the pieces under each side of the teak board, keeping the water from splashing up through the two sides. If you do take on any water, you have to pull the sponges and let it drain out. This entails having to do something while you are taking on water... obviously conditions aren't real good and you probably are working hard on other things (like keeping the boat upright, reefing, dropping sails, etc). I like the rubber bar mat (workaround) idea because I can take on almost an inch of water and still keep my feet dry, without having to perform some extra chore when I least want to. Also I don't have to worry about forgetting to pull the plugs and finding my boat half swamped after a good rain. And if you're taking on a lot of water you have too much weight aft... move that beer cooler to the fore end of the cabin, as well as the least liked member of the crew. Tell them to go out to the bow pulpit, lean out, and say "I'm flying" 500 times (your cockpit will drain by then). Works good with hyperactive children. Don't worry; you'll get good at coming about and picking them out of the water. They like to swim anyway. At 8:37 AM -0700 4/25/02, Bob Campbell wrote:
Cal,
I have had similar wet cockpit problems with my M17. I was getting water in from both the center board pennant, and the transom drains. My solution is rubber stoppers in the drains, and rubber rigging tape (the kind that only sticks to itself) wrapped around the centerboard pennant in a tapered fashion, and stuffed into the pennant hole. This keeps the cockpit dry as a bone, and when conditions start getting nasty, I pull out the transom drain stoppers. I figure, if there's water coming in over the combings, it doesn't much matter if there's water splashing in though the cockpit drains. All this is to say; maybe you could devise a way to plug the drain when you don't need the drainage.
Cautionary note: If you keep your boat in the water or dry store it outside, don't forget to pull the plug(s) so that rain water can drain out! I read a story of a Potter 15 owner who came back to his "stopped up" boat after a rain storm to find his cabin flooded and boat half sunk! By the grace of God, I haven't pulled this stunt yet :)
Fair Winds,
Bob Campbell Montgomery 17 #615 "Alina" Lodi, CA
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Cal Spooner Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:32 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: cockpit drain backwash
Steve, There is really no solution other than to get one of those mats that bartenders use (and boat shops sell) that are about 1" thick and made of alternating squares (checkerboard pattern) of rubber, trim it and throw it on the floor of the cockpit. The design of the drain makes water come up sometimes when tacking into the wind, and other conditions, in rough water... the waves force the water up; your "hydraulic pressure" analogy is correct. There is no simple solution to this... but the mat will keep your feet dry, and allow the water to drain back out. -- Cal Spooner M15 #402 spoon@visi.com cspooner@mn.rr.com 763.574.1482
Bob, Last summer I purchased corks for my cockpit drains from a camping supply store close my launch site prior to a 3-man camp-cruise (the weight of the three of us plus gear caused the boat to ship water under all weight-distribution scenarios): The corks worked great . . . But I can't help wondering . . . Isn't this somewhat dangerous, given that one could be caught in a Charless Fowlkes (a-la the discussion on M15 buoyancy) scenario? I mean, the drains are designed to dump a cockpit full of water in the event the boat were swamped . . . I guess, theoretically, or hopefully, one would have the time to pull the corks in a crisis. --Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Campbell" <racsrv@attbi.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:37 AM Subject: cockpit drain backwash Cal, I have had similar wet cockpit problems with my M17. I was getting water in from both the center board pennant, and the transom drains. My solution is rubber stoppers in the drains, and rubber rigging tape (the kind that only sticks to itself) wrapped around the centerboard pennant in a tapered fashion, and stuffed into the pennant hole. This keeps the cockpit dry as a bone, and when conditions start getting nasty, I pull out the transom drain stoppers. I figure, if there's water coming in over the combings, it doesn't much matter if there's water splashing in though the cockpit drains. All this is to say; maybe you could devise a way to plug the drain when you don't need the drainage. Cautionary note: If you keep your boat in the water or dry store it outside, don't forget to pull the plug(s) so that rain water can drain out! I read a story of a Potter 15 owner who came back to his "stopped up" boat after a rain storm to find his cabin flooded and boat half sunk! By the grace of God, I haven't pulled this stunt yet :) Fair Winds, Bob Campbell Montgomery 17 #615 "Alina" Lodi, CA -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Cal Spooner Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:32 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: cockpit drain backwash Steve, There is really no solution other than to get one of those mats that bartenders use (and boat shops sell) that are about 1" thick and made of alternating squares (checkerboard pattern) of rubber, trim it and throw it on the floor of the cockpit. The design of the drain makes water come up sometimes when tacking into the wind, and other conditions, in rough water... the waves force the water up; your "hydraulic pressure" analogy is correct. There is no simple solution to this... but the mat will keep your feet dry, and allow the water to drain back out. At 9:01 PM -0500 4/24/02, Steve McClellan \(at Home\) wrote:
It just so happens that I have been turning this issue (cockpit drain backwash) over and over in my head for the past couple of days.
The reason is, I recently removed the teak pennant guide and have ground away a good deal of the fiberglass around the drain hole, as a small part of a larger project that began a few weeks ago with a centerboard that wouldn't drop, and is going to end with a complete refurbishment of my keel stub, centerboard trunk, centerboard, and cockpit drain.
And the big question that has been getting me lately is: Why isn't there SOME permanent solution to the drain backwash problem on the M15s? There must be an answer. What is it?
With the teak piece gone, the drain opening is actually quite large, about 1 inch by 2 inches I'd say. BUT consider: it is at the top of an inverted triangular slot, the centerboard slot, which means that as water pressure causes water to move up the slot, it is progresively accelerated by the ever-narrowing passage, until it is forced with some considerably multiplied hydraulic pressure up the through the drain hole.
It seems like, with the centerboard removed, one should be able to install some kind of a "valve" or flap that would allow water to move downward with ease (necessary) but not UPward at all. Whatever kind of spring loading kept the valve flap up, it would have to be something weak enough that even small amounts of water from above would overcome it.
The other possibility might be some kind of a float that would jam itself up into the hole from below when water was moving upward.
Come on people, put on your thinking caps! I'm willing to be the guinea pig for whatever good idea we can come up with. (I've got the think all taken apart and up on stands anyway) It needs to be something both simple and reliable.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pavuk" <mcpavuk@worldnet.att.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:42 Subject: M_Boats: cockpit drain
Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322 -- Cal Spooner M15 #402 spoon@visi.com cspooner@mn.rr.com 763.574.1482
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Craig, I agree that there is some risk involved in sailing "stopped up". I sailed quite a bit on Potter 15's and it's SOP on those boats, so I'm pretty accustom to it. I would definitely want to remove the plugs early vs. later as conditions deteriorate. Additionally I'd be adding hatch boards. Bob -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Honshells Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:46 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: cockpit drain backwash Bob, Last summer I purchased corks for my cockpit drains from a camping supply store close my launch site prior to a 3-man camp-cruise (the weight of the three of us plus gear caused the boat to ship water under all weight-distribution scenarios): The corks worked great . . . But I can't help wondering . . . Isn't this somewhat dangerous, given that one could be caught in a Charless Fowlkes (a-la the discussion on M15 buoyancy) scenario? I mean, the drains are designed to dump a cockpit full of water in the event the boat were swamped . . . I guess, theoretically, or hopefully, one would have the time to pull the corks in a crisis. --Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Campbell" <racsrv@attbi.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:37 AM Subject: cockpit drain backwash Cal, I have had similar wet cockpit problems with my M17. I was getting water in from both the center board pennant, and the transom drains. My solution is rubber stoppers in the drains, and rubber rigging tape (the kind that only sticks to itself) wrapped around the centerboard pennant in a tapered fashion, and stuffed into the pennant hole. This keeps the cockpit dry as a bone, and when conditions start getting nasty, I pull out the transom drain stoppers. I figure, if there's water coming in over the combings, it doesn't much matter if there's water splashing in though the cockpit drains. All this is to say; maybe you could devise a way to plug the drain when you don't need the drainage. Cautionary note: If you keep your boat in the water or dry store it outside, don't forget to pull the plug(s) so that rain water can drain out! I read a story of a Potter 15 owner who came back to his "stopped up" boat after a rain storm to find his cabin flooded and boat half sunk! By the grace of God, I haven't pulled this stunt yet :) Fair Winds, Bob Campbell Montgomery 17 #615 "Alina" Lodi, CA -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-admin@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Cal Spooner Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 3:32 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: cockpit drain backwash Steve, There is really no solution other than to get one of those mats that bartenders use (and boat shops sell) that are about 1" thick and made of alternating squares (checkerboard pattern) of rubber, trim it and throw it on the floor of the cockpit. The design of the drain makes water come up sometimes when tacking into the wind, and other conditions, in rough water... the waves force the water up; your "hydraulic pressure" analogy is correct. There is no simple solution to this... but the mat will keep your feet dry, and allow the water to drain back out. At 9:01 PM -0500 4/24/02, Steve McClellan \(at Home\) wrote:
It just so happens that I have been turning this issue (cockpit drain backwash) over and over in my head for the past couple of days.
The reason is, I recently removed the teak pennant guide and have ground away a good deal of the fiberglass around the drain hole, as a small part of a larger project that began a few weeks ago with a centerboard that wouldn't drop, and is going to end with a complete refurbishment of my keel stub, centerboard trunk, centerboard, and cockpit drain.
And the big question that has been getting me lately is: Why isn't there SOME permanent solution to the drain backwash problem on the M15s? There must be an answer. What is it?
With the teak piece gone, the drain opening is actually quite large, about 1 inch by 2 inches I'd say. BUT consider: it is at the top of an inverted triangular slot, the centerboard slot, which means that as water pressure causes water to move up the slot, it is progresively accelerated by the ever-narrowing passage, until it is forced with some considerably multiplied hydraulic pressure up the through the drain hole.
It seems like, with the centerboard removed, one should be able to install some kind of a "valve" or flap that would allow water to move downward with ease (necessary) but not UPward at all. Whatever kind of spring loading kept the valve flap up, it would have to be something weak enough that even small amounts of water from above would overcome it.
The other possibility might be some kind of a float that would jam itself up into the hole from below when water was moving upward.
Come on people, put on your thinking caps! I'm willing to be the guinea pig for whatever good idea we can come up with. (I've got the think all taken apart and up on stands anyway) It needs to be something both simple and reliable.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pavuk" <mcpavuk@worldnet.att.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:42 Subject: M_Boats: cockpit drain
Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322 -- Cal Spooner M15 #402 spoon@visi.com cspooner@mn.rr.com 763.574.1482
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Or teak grating in the cockpit sole? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cal Spooner" <cspooner@mn.rr.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 6:32 AM Subject: cockpit drain backwash Steve, There is really no solution other than to get one of those mats that bartenders use (and boat shops sell) that are about 1" thick and made of alternating squares (checkerboard pattern) of rubber, trim it and throw it on the floor of the cockpit. The design of the drain makes water come up sometimes when tacking into the wind, and other conditions, in rough water... the waves force the water up; your "hydraulic pressure" analogy is correct. There is no simple solution to this... but the mat will keep your feet dry, and allow the water to drain back out. At 9:01 PM -0500 4/24/02, Steve McClellan \(at Home\) wrote:
It just so happens that I have been turning this issue (cockpit drain backwash) over and over in my head for the past couple of days.
The reason is, I recently removed the teak pennant guide and have ground away a good deal of the fiberglass around the drain hole, as a small part of a larger project that began a few weeks ago with a centerboard that wouldn't drop, and is going to end with a complete refurbishment of my keel stub, centerboard trunk, centerboard, and cockpit drain.
And the big question that has been getting me lately is: Why isn't there SOME permanent solution to the drain backwash problem on the M15s? There must be an answer. What is it?
With the teak piece gone, the drain opening is actually quite large, about 1 inch by 2 inches I'd say. BUT consider: it is at the top of an inverted triangular slot, the centerboard slot, which means that as water pressure causes water to move up the slot, it is progresively accelerated by the ever-narrowing passage, until it is forced with some considerably multiplied hydraulic pressure up the through the drain hole.
It seems like, with the centerboard removed, one should be able to install some kind of a "valve" or flap that would allow water to move downward with ease (necessary) but not UPward at all. Whatever kind of spring loading kept the valve flap up, it would have to be something weak enough that even small amounts of water from above would overcome it.
The other possibility might be some kind of a float that would jam itself up into the hole from below when water was moving upward.
Come on people, put on your thinking caps! I'm willing to be the guinea pig for whatever good idea we can come up with. (I've got the think all taken apart and up on stands anyway) It needs to be something both simple and reliable.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pavuk" <mcpavuk@worldnet.att.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 6:42 Subject: M_Boats: cockpit drain
Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322 -- Cal Spooner M15 #402 spoon@visi.com cspooner@mn.rr.com 763.574.1482
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Quite common for more than one person on board, even for us M17ers . . . In safe conditions you can cork the drains to keep your feet dry: Some might advise against this approach, however . . . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pavuk" <mcpavuk@worldnet.att.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 7:42 PM Subject: M_Boats: cockpit drain Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Cherri, That is the way things are on a M15. You missed nothing. You may want a small sheet bag to keep the main sheet out of the drink. All things considered, it ain't much to have to put up with... Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Pavuk" <mcpavuk@worldnet.att.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 4:42 PM Subject: M_Boats: cockpit drain
Is it normal to have water entering the cockpit from the drain? We sailed today and had a wonderful time - the only problem was a bit of water getting splashed up and getting our feet and the main sheet wet. I assumed self-bailing was a one way street somehow. Are we missing something? Cherri, M-15 # 322
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participants (9)
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Bob Campbell -
Cal Spooner -
Don Olson -
Doug Kelch -
Honshells -
Howard Audsley -
Mark Pavuk -
Steve & Diana Parsons -
Steve McClellan (at Home)