Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17
Hi Tom, Not to turn this into a political discussion or anything like it, but it's hard to ignore the reason we can't have a vehicle like the efficient diesel Forester in the US. It has to do with oxides of nitrogen limits imposed by our EPA. Never mind the fact that it gets nearly 50 MPG and produces tons of torque. Bill --- On Fri, 4/10/09, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote: From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17 To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 10:34 AM Andrei, According to the scale I used, my 2004 M17 and trailer weigh 3000 lb empty with no mast or motor, so I am guessing 3200 lbs with some gear on board. Even if the Pacific trailer is 800 lbs (I have not confirmed that), it is hard to believe that a 1600 lb boat would gain 600 lbs by addition of an electrical system and a boarding ladder. Maybe newer boats have gained some weight (like most Americans), possibly in the keel or centerboard, or maybe the certified scale was wrong. Bob might be able to help us with all this. I have been doing some research on Subaru as tow vehicles, and I find that Foresters in the UK are rated to tow 2000 kg (4400 lb). As nearly as I can tell, the cars are virtually identical to the U.S. imports rated at 2400 lbs. Go figure. UK dealers also sell a diesel Forester with lots of torque that gets 49 mpg (%#@&$#). Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrei Caldararu" <andreic@math.wisc.edu> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:16 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17
I have a question about the towing weight: I thought an M-17 is around 1600 lbs; add about 3-400lbs for the trailer, some more for the gear and motor that brings it to 2000-2400 lbs. But you're saying your rig is closer to 3000-3200 lbs; have I got my numbers wrong?
I am towing (on flat land) my M-17 with a 4cyl Subaru Outback, 4x4, manual transmission. Works, but I feel I am close to the limit really.
Andrei.
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hmm... That's interesting... perhaps that's why towing my M-17 feels so much heavier than my previous Compac 16. The Compac 16 is listed as 1100 lbs displacement, and the Monty 17 as 1600, but the difference felt like much more than 500 lbs. Has anyone else put an older Monty 17 and trailer on the scales? Sounds like it's time to upgrade my tow vehicle (ouch), mine has only 2000lbs tow capacity. How many people have added brakes to their trailer, and would that help? I am not too worried about engine power/transmission, as I almost only tow on flat land. Andrei.
I know this is a contentious subject, but I think that sufficient power to keep up with traffic (staying in the slow lane if necessary) and absence of sway signifies an adequate tow vehicle, provided you have plenty of stopping power. I know that at least one M17 owner with a Subaru thinks it is adequate as a tow vehicle, but he considers surge brakes on the trailer extremely desirable; I am certainly going to buy them. On steep grades, it is easy to turn them on and off with the throttle to slow the rig down, and they don't engage at every stop unless you have a lead foot on the brake. Incidentally, my experience with surge brakes has been towing a 12,000 lb rig with an 8000 lb pickup, and I never had a problem. Tom Jenkins ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrei Caldararu" <andreic@math.wisc.edu> To: <deuce3window@sbcglobal.net>; "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:17 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17
Hmm... That's interesting... perhaps that's why towing my M-17 feels so much heavier than my previous Compac 16. The Compac 16 is listed as 1100 lbs displacement, and the Monty 17 as 1600, but the difference felt like much more than 500 lbs. Has anyone else put an older Monty 17 and trailer on the scales? Sounds like it's time to upgrade my tow vehicle (ouch), mine has only 2000lbs tow capacity. How many people have added brakes to their trailer, and would that help? I am not too worried about engine power/transmission, as I almost only tow on flat land.
Andrei.
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Hi Bill, Hard to ignore that gauntlet. I can't keep up with changing regulations, but until a year or so ago it was a CARB problem rather than an EPA problem, because diesel cars (including Jeeps) were being sold in all but a handful of states (the handful including California, of course). California has decided that producing more carbon dioxide (and importing more oil) is better for the planet than producing less NOx--a matter of opinion. Now that nitrogen-scrubbing devices have been fitted for the U.S. by Daimler-Benz, BMW, Audi, and Volkswagen, they can all be sold in 50 states, and probably will be. The Asian makers have adequate technology as well, but their cars have a smaller average profit margin and the diesels cost more to make, so they are all waiting for vehicle sales to recover before taking the plunge. Maybe your next tow vehicle will be a diesel GMC Sierra 1500 getting 35 mpg! Finishing my unintended rant, I have driven many diesel cars in Europe, and they are better than gasoline cars in every way, and especially for towing. Happy sailing! Tom ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Larson" <deuce3window@sbcglobal.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17 Hi Tom, Not to turn this into a political discussion or anything like it, but it's hard to ignore the reason we can't have a vehicle like the efficient diesel Forester in the US. It has to do with oxides of nitrogen limits imposed by our EPA. Never mind the fact that it gets nearly 50 MPG and produces tons of torque. Bill --- On Fri, 4/10/09, Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> wrote: From: Tom Jenkins <tjenk@gte.net> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17 To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Friday, April 10, 2009, 10:34 AM Andrei, According to the scale I used, my 2004 M17 and trailer weigh 3000 lb empty with no mast or motor, so I am guessing 3200 lbs with some gear on board. Even if the Pacific trailer is 800 lbs (I have not confirmed that), it is hard to believe that a 1600 lb boat would gain 600 lbs by addition of an electrical system and a boarding ladder. Maybe newer boats have gained some weight (like most Americans), possibly in the keel or centerboard, or maybe the certified scale was wrong. Bob might be able to help us with all this. I have been doing some research on Subaru as tow vehicles, and I find that Foresters in the UK are rated to tow 2000 kg (4400 lb). As nearly as I can tell, the cars are virtually identical to the U.S. imports rated at 2400 lbs. Go figure. UK dealers also sell a diesel Forester with lots of torque that gets 49 mpg (%#@&$#). Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrei Caldararu" <andreic@math.wisc.edu> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 8:16 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Towing a monty 17
I have a question about the towing weight: I thought an M-17 is around 1600 lbs; add about 3-400lbs for the trailer, some more for the gear and motor that brings it to 2000-2400 lbs. But you're saying your rig is closer to 3000-3200 lbs; have I got my numbers wrong?
I am towing (on flat land) my M-17 with a 4cyl Subaru Outback, 4x4, manual transmission. Works, but I feel I am close to the limit really.
Andrei.
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
participants (3)
-
Andrei Caldararu -
Tom Jenkins -
William Larson