My input? Three words "Looooooooooong, EXTENDABLE, Tongue ! (NO , not Bosun.......on the trailer for shallow ramp guys. ) ...and yes, the lower the boat, within reason, the better.!

Me again - memory was good. The '23 "Deception" is in the MSOG Photo Site - complete with a good detail picture of the trailer. Boat belongs to Bill and Georgia Ray, in Northern Colorado. John in Tucson -----Original Message----- From: jslubliner <jslubliner@aol.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sun, Dec 5, 2010 9:20 pm Subject: M_Boats: Monty 23 trailer modifications erry and '23 guys - Neal Clark in Tucson had a '23 with a modified trailer axle setup. I believe he id the work himself. He took out the full width axle and put short "dually" xles over the wishbone frame on either side of the boat - two wheels per ide.The wheels straddled the frame rails, and were hooked to individual spring etups on each side. This allowed the boat to sit lower on the trailer, as there as no axle in the center. I don't remember him having any trouble with the railer "flex" because of this modification, but it was in the late '70's, emory not so good... This boat was sold to Stan Brickler in Tucson and was alled "Deception" I believe that the boat now belongs to Stan's relatives lsewhere and that you have this boat on the list. John in Tucson, former "Coyote" ----Original Message----- rom: M23 "Daunltess" <nebwest2@aol.com> o: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> ent: Sun, Dec 5, 2010 8:28 pm ubject: Re: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice y input? Three words "Looooooooooong, EXTENDABLE, Tongue ! (NO , not sun.......on the trailer for shallow ramp guys. ) ...and yes, the lower the at, within reason, the better.! _____________________________________________ tp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats emember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

Stan, I met Martin once at a Tucson Sailing Club meeting. He never showed up again, so I cannot help. Sorry - -----Original Message----- From: Stan Susman <stanpfa@pacbell.net> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sun, Dec 5, 2010 11:20 pm Subject: Re: M_Boats: Tucson John, do you know Martin Pepper? If so,how about twisting his arm to bring Skunk o Havasu !!! --- On Sun, 12/5/10, jslubliner@aol.com <jslubliner@aol.com> wrote: rom: jslubliner@aol.com <jslubliner@aol.com> ubject: Re: M_Boats: Monty 23 trailer modifications o: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com ate: Sunday, December 5, 2010, 8:30 PM Me again - memory was good. The '23 "Deception" is in the MSOG Photo Site - omplete with a good detail picture of the trailer. Boat belongs to Bill and eorgia Ray, in Northern Colorado. John in Tucson ----Original Message----- rom: jslubliner <jslubliner@aol.com> o: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> ent: Sun, Dec 5, 2010 9:20 pm ubject: M_Boats: Monty 23 trailer modifications erry and '23 guys - eal Clark in Tucson had a '23 with a modified trailer axle setup. I believe he d the work himself. He took out the full width axle and put short "dually" les over the wishbone frame on either side of the boat - two wheels per de.The wheels straddled the frame rails, and were hooked to individual spring tups on each side. This allowed the boat to sit lower on the trailer, as there s no axle in the center. I don't remember him having any trouble with the ailer "flex" because of this modification, but it was in the late '70's, mory not so good... This boat was sold to Stan Brickler in Tucson and was lled "Deception" I believe that the boat now belongs to Stan's relatives sewhere and that you have this boat on the list. ohn in Tucson, former "Coyote" ----Original Message----- om: M23 "Daunltess" <nebwest2@aol.com> : montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> nt: Sun, Dec 5, 2010 8:28 pm bject: Re: M_Boats: Need some "Sage" advice y input? Three words "Looooooooooong, EXTENDABLE, Tongue ! (NO , not un.......on the trailer for shallow ramp guys. ) ...and yes, the lower the t, within reason, the better.! ____________________________________________ p://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats member, there is no privacy on the Internet! ______________________________________________ tp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats emember, there is no privacy on the Internet! _______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet! ______________________________________________ ttp://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

Hi Philip, congratulations on your new (to you) boat! You have made a great choice, but I am biased! I rebeded the lower gudgeon on my '74 M-17 a while back. Not sure what your cockpit drain set up is but mine was a hose that needed checking/replacing as well. I do not remember it being very difficult and I believe I used 3-M 4200 to rebed the part. I decided that it would be a good idea to have access to that area so I bought and installed an access hatch/inspection port for the back wall of the cockpit so that I could get at that area more easily. This is especially important I thought due to there being a through hull below the water line on my boat in that area. The only tip I could offer is to use a putty knife to separate the part from the transom after unbolting. Sometimes the old bedding material is quite strong and you do not want to bring gel coat with your part if you can help it. And of course always seal the holes going through the transom by over drilling, filling with thickened epoxy, then drilling to the size of the bolt so that the wood in the transom is sealed off from the bolt holes if the bedding leaks. There is another approach that is shown using a bent nail but I personally have not tried it. If you are new to working on boats there is a great book by Don Casey that you could ask for for Christmas that shows a lot of maintenance stuff called This Old Boat. You might go after the scum line with, what is it, Oxolyic acid? It is the active ingredient in products like FSR fiberglass stain remover. That is a good option if rubbing it out does not work. Robbin M-23 '78 The Other Woman M-10 Tonka On 12/6/2010 4:02 PM, PHILIP NOBEL wrote:

Greetings, List!

My girlfriend and I are, as of about a month ago, the very happy new owners of an M-17 (hull #617). Her name is Bird Girl and she's going to be moored in the Hudson at Cold Spring, NY. Also very happy to find this list, since, though she's in good shape generally for a nine year old boat, I've got a few winter projects (refinishing the rudder and tiller) I may need some advice on, as well as a potentially gnarly spring project: replacing one or more of the thru-hull bolts that attach the bottom-most gudgeon.

The previous owner was a good sailor, and I'm adopting from him new furling gear, good sails, and some other nice performance tweaks, but he had the boat in fresh water, with no paint, all last season. That left me a nice scum line to follow when I paint in the spring, but it also I think led to the crevice corrosion on the stainless in that one spot (and one of the bolts on the associated pintle strap, but that looks like an easy fix). One of the gudgeon bolts has lost its head and another shows some rust. The plate itself seems fine and there's no water entering (yet!) behind the broken bolt.

My repair plan as of now consists of sending my nine year old son down under the cockpit to the transom with a camera to see what's happening on the dry side, then we'll take it from there. But until it warms up enough to subject him to that particular torture...have any of you experienced Montgomery sailors made that repair? And if so, any tips for the newbie? I'm hoping it's no more complicated than removing the bolts and rebedding the whole assembly, but what in life is ever that simple?

Hope all's well, and thanks for having me here.

-- Philip

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Congratulations, Philip   I own an M-15 and sail in the Hudson from Fort Lee ramp sometimes from Haverstraw. Last time I sailed to the Bear Mounting Bridge not to far from you.   See you around   Orlando M15 ________________________________ From: PHILIP NOBEL <philip@nobel.org> To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Mon, December 6, 2010 4:02:32 PM Subject: M_Boats: New Member, Gudgeon Question Greetings, List! My girlfriend and I are, as of about a month ago, the very happy new owners of an M-17 (hull #617). Her name is Bird Girl and she's going to be moored in the Hudson at Cold Spring, NY. Also very happy to find this list, since, though she's in good shape generally for a nine year old boat, I've got a few winter projects (refinishing the rudder and tiller) I may need some advice on, as well as a potentially gnarly spring project: replacing one or more of the  thru-hull bolts that attach the bottom-most gudgeon. The previous owner was a good sailor, and I'm adopting from him new furling gear, good sails, and some other nice performance tweaks, but he had the boat in fresh water, with no paint, all last season. That left me a nice scum line to follow when I paint in the spring, but it also I think led to the crevice corrosion on the stainless in that one spot (and one of the bolts on the associated pintle strap, but that looks like an easy fix). One of the gudgeon bolts has lost its head and another shows some rust. The plate itself seems fine and there's no water entering (yet!) behind the broken bolt. My repair plan as of now consists of sending my nine year old son down under the cockpit to the transom with a camera to see what's happening on the dry side, then we'll take it from there. But until it warms up enough to subject him to that particular torture...have any of you experienced Montgomery sailors made that repair? And if so, any tips for the newbie? I'm hoping it's no more complicated than removing the bolts and rebedding the whole assembly, but what in life is ever that simple? Hope all's well, and thanks for having me here. -- Philip _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!

The cast iron CB on my M17 uses white nylon bushings for the pivot pin hole. A modification made upstream from me by someone else. Thomas I suspect. I then use a stainless steel bolt for the pivot pin. These nylon bushings have a 1" diameter, 3/8" hole and are 3/8" thick, so two of them side by side span the width of the CB. The one I have in my hand cost 48 cents. If you needed a bigger pin, you could drill out the hole in the nylon bushing to make it larger. 1/2" should not be a problem. You could also make your own out of a block of Teflon or HDPE. For a HUGE pivot pin, epoxy in a short bushing made of PVC pipe. I think you are on the right track by avoiding dissimilar metals. On Dec 6, 2010, at 6:12 AM, robbin roddewig wrote:

First I appreciate all the great responses I got on the trailer rebuild. Lots of really good ideas which will make it very easy (in theory, until I try to remove rusted parts) for me to replace the whole drum brakes system on the old trailer without spending a wad of cash. Second, sorry for so many posts but I have another question that I am pretty sure the collective knowledge of the group could help with. I am about to epoxy a couple of brass bushings into my centerboard to replace the fiberglass bushing that I ground out of the pivot hole. When it occurred to me that I should consider whether I would have any issues with dissimilar metals since the centerboard sits in water (dielectric). I should know more about this but my engineering has kept me clear of battery chemistry and such and the only thing I found online is that I probably should not put a (Silicon) Bronze pin through my Brass bushings. So my question is given I have the freedom to put in what ever pin I want (from Duckworks) and can get some more bushings for $10-15 from McMaster Carr easy what would be a good combo of materials? I am assuming I can isolate the steel of the board and the bushings with the barrier coat and epoxy that the bushings will be put in with, so the issue would be the bushings and the pin.

Thanks Robbin

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This is great info, you all know your chemistry and materials much better than I. Based on Howard's reply I already scrapped the idea of metal bushings. I don't know why I was going down that path in retrospect it seems so obvious that I could avoid the dis similar metals by not using metal. Duh! Thanks for your suggestion of Micarta. I have been looking at the materials offered by McMaster, they have Nylon, PTFE, Rulon, Ultra High Molecular Weight Polyethylene and others. Most seems to be a variation on PTFE (Teflon). My guess is that for this application anything would be functional as the board is not that heavy mechanically. Thanks again Jerry and Howard! Robbin On 12/7/2010 12:57 PM, jerry montgomery wrote:

Hi Robin- I wouldn't use brass for a bushing; brass breaks down quite fast under salt water. Brass is simply copper and zinc, and the zinc goeas away pretty fast, which leaves a copper sponge. Brass was used for deck hardware on the old boats because it was cheap, but never un derwater.

Bronze would last a long time if you stored the boat on a trailer but if you keep it in salt water I'd use micarta or something like that. Bronze would be fine for the pin, but inspect it every few years.

jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, December 06, 2010 4:12 AM Subject: M_Boats: dissimilar metals corner

...

First I appreciate all the great responses I got on the trailer rebuild. Lots of really good ideas which will make it very easy (in theory, until I try to remove rusted parts) for me to replace the whole drum brakes system on the old trailer without spending a wad of cash. Second, sorry for so many posts but I have another question that I am pretty sure the collective knowledge of the group could help with. I am about to epoxy a couple of brass bushings into my centerboard to replace the fiberglass bushing that I ground out of the pivot hole. When it occurred to me that I should consider whether I would have any issues with dissimilar metals since the centerboard sits in water (dielectric). I should know more about this but my engineering has kept me clear of battery chemistry and such and the only thing I found online is that I probably should not put a (Silicon) Bronze pin through my Brass bushings. So my question is given I have the freedom to put in what ever pin I want (from Duckworks) and can get some more bushings for $10-15 from McMaster Carr easy what would be a good combo of materials? I am assuming I can isolate the steel of the board and the bushings with the barrier coat and epoxy that the bushings will be put in with, so the issue would be the bushings and the pin.

Thanks Robbin

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