Tom, Somewhere on the internet I came across this bit of advice on applying bedding. I have yet to test it, but perhaps someone else may weigh in. After applying the bedding compound, snug up the fasteners - say finger tight. Allow the compound to set up overnight. Then tighten the fasteners securely. Doing so is said to avoid squeezing the compound out. Perhaps failing to heed this method could explain the lack of compound on Wild Hare. OT - a bit of high tech March madness humor - you supply the identity. Do you know why team X can not use the internet? Because they can't put three 'w's together! Steve R M-15 #119 Lexington, KY
Steve, ..."After applying the bedding compound, snug up the fasteners - say finger tight. Allow the compound to set up overnight. Then tighten the fasteners securely. Doing so is said to avoid squeezing the compound out."... This is the method I use also. If you cinch everything down tight before the bedding sets up you will squeeze most of it out leaving you with a paper-thin gasket. BTW I like to use Boatlife caulk. Mark Dvorscak M17 #400 GRACE
This is an interesting topic. A friend and I always have this discussion and we don't have an answer. I feel that leaving the bedding to set up and then tighten can lead to some problems. But as are the reasons given for doing this, mine are also just conjecture. My thought is that you only want the bedding compound to fill the small spaces that are left after tightening the bolts, any more would be excess. The water tight seal is formed as a result of the bond between the bedding compound and the items being bedded, and the filling of these small spaces. I don't think the water tight seal is solely the result of the bedding compound working as a gasket. If it were, wouldn't we be better off using a rubber gasket? It would certainly be easier and less messy. The bedding compound "never hardens" leaving a soft gasket between the items being bedded. If allowed to dry first then tightened, you will never get the items tightened as tight and motionless as without the bedding compound. The excess would lead to more motion in the joint which would have a tendency to break the bond between the compound and items being bedded and lead to leakage faster. The directions on the tube don't say to do let dry and then tighten, It would seem that if it were a better technique, the manufacturer would recommend it. Does any one have an authoritative answer? ___ 73 de AC6KW <mailto:jeff@grudin.net> Jeff Grudin, DVM Web Add: http://www.grudin.net Ocean Animal Clinic / Cat Clinic of Santa Cruz - Santa Cruz, California Montgomery 23 Hull #072 Norcal QRP * QRP-L * ARS * AR Qrp --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.333 / Virus Database: 187 - Release Date: 3/8/2002
Jeff, I'm absolutely inspired by this alternative viewpoint, because, besides my fiberglass repair and maintenance man in West Michigan, the best in the business, I've never heard anyone else express it. My repairman also pooh-poohs the wisdom that holes for cored deck fittings should be routed out and epoxied: His point being that a poorly bedded fitting will allow moisture to get to the core, whether the epoxy is there or not. I appreciate your point that the manufacturer does not instruct the user to allow the bedding to dry. Both the alternative view on bedding and the alternative view on the use of epoxy, if scientifically sound, could be liberating, because they require fewer steps. My experience with epoxy has been that it takes an alchemist to properly mix and apply the stuff. I'd like to see Practical Sailor (magazine) tests using both methods for each process. --Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Grudin" <grudin@vdbs.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 9:33 AM Subject: M_Boats: Teak Bedding This is an interesting topic. A friend and I always have this discussion and we don't have an answer. I feel that leaving the bedding to set up and then tighten can lead to some problems. But as are the reasons given for doing this, mine are also just conjecture. My thought is that you only want the bedding compound to fill the small spaces that are left after tightening the bolts, any more would be excess. The water tight seal is formed as a result of the bond between the bedding compound and the items being bedded, and the filling of these small spaces. I don't think the water tight seal is solely the result of the bedding compound working as a gasket. If it were, wouldn't we be better off using a rubber gasket? It would certainly be easier and less messy. The bedding compound "never hardens" leaving a soft gasket between the items being bedded. If allowed to dry first then tightened, you will never get the items tightened as tight and motionless as without the bedding compound. The excess would lead to more motion in the joint which would have a tendency to break the bond between the compound and items being bedded and lead to leakage faster. The directions on the tube don't say to do let dry and then tighten, It would seem that if it were a better technique, the manufacturer would recommend it. Does any one have an authoritative answer? ___ 73 de AC6KW <mailto:jeff@grudin.net> Jeff Grudin, DVM Web Add: http://www.grudin.net Ocean Animal Clinic / Cat Clinic of Santa Cruz - Santa Cruz, California Montgomery 23 Hull #072 Norcal QRP * QRP-L * ARS * AR Qrp --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.333 / Virus Database: 187 - Release Date: 3/8/2002 _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Craig What we do at the factory is after drilling a hole in the cored area we mix a little dab of 5 minute epoxy on a small piece of cardboard. (use a popcicle stick). Then we use a Q-tip to lather the epoxy into the hole. After about 20 minutes you can run the drill thru again. I don't know if it helps. The balsa core does seem to soak it up. It sure makes us feel better :-) Then bed with boatlife caulk as you would normally and tighen properly. In about 15 years the caulking will in some cases have shrunk and cracked. Consider re-bedding before any water damage can occur. Later Bob Honshells wrote:
Jeff, I'm absolutely inspired by this alternative viewpoint, because, besides my fiberglass repair and maintenance man in West Michigan, the best in the business, I've never heard anyone else express it. My repairman also pooh-poohs the wisdom that holes for cored deck fittings should be routed out and epoxied: His point being that a poorly bedded fitting will allow moisture to get to the core, whether the epoxy is there or not. I appreciate your point that the manufacturer does not instruct the user to allow the bedding to dry. Both the alternative view on bedding and the alternative view on the use of epoxy, if scientifically sound, could be liberating, because they require fewer steps. My experience with epoxy has been that it takes an alchemist to properly mix and apply the stuff. I'd like to see Practical Sailor (magazine) tests using both methods for each process. --Craig
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Grudin" <grudin@vdbs.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 9:33 AM Subject: M_Boats: Teak Bedding
This is an interesting topic. A friend and I always have this discussion and we don't have an answer.
I feel that leaving the bedding to set up and then tighten can lead to some problems. But as are the reasons given for doing this, mine are also just conjecture.
My thought is that you only want the bedding compound to fill the small spaces that are left after tightening the bolts, any more would be excess. The water tight seal is formed as a result of the bond between the bedding compound and the items being bedded, and the filling of these small spaces. I don't think the water tight seal is solely the result of the bedding compound working as a gasket. If it were, wouldn't we be better off using a rubber gasket? It would certainly be easier and less messy.
The bedding compound "never hardens" leaving a soft gasket between the items being bedded. If allowed to dry first then tightened, you will never get the items tightened as tight and motionless as without the bedding compound. The excess would lead to more motion in the joint which would have a tendency to break the bond between the compound and items being bedded and lead to leakage faster.
The directions on the tube don't say to do let dry and then tighten, It would seem that if it were a better technique, the manufacturer would recommend it.
Does any one have an authoritative answer?
___
73 de AC6KW <mailto:jeff@grudin.net> Jeff Grudin, DVM Web Add: http://www.grudin.net
Ocean Animal Clinic / Cat Clinic of Santa Cruz - Santa Cruz, California Montgomery 23 Hull #072 Norcal QRP * QRP-L * ARS * AR Qrp
--- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.333 / Virus Database: 187 - Release Date: 3/8/2002
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That sounds like a good lower hassle compromise. I have rebed several fittings on my '84 17' and plan to finish the job this spring, but my principal strategy, and the one I think I'll continue to use, is to keep the boat covered when not in use, therefore exposing the deck to moisture only when out on the water: Of course, my strategy is easy for me because I keep my boat on the trailer and just throw a big tarp over the whole thing when the mast is down. I'm thinking of pricing a sailmaker's fit cover that would allow me to park her near the water with the mast up and I suppose such a cover would be effective in a slip, also. I imagine a cover would also protect from the vagaries of ultraviolet rays, which would prolong the life of the sealant. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <Bobeeg@earthlink.net> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: M_Boats: Teak Bedding Craig What we do at the factory is after drilling a hole in the cored area we mix a little dab of 5 minute epoxy on a small piece of cardboard. (use a popcicle stick). Then we use a Q-tip to lather the epoxy into the hole. After about 20 minutes you can run the drill thru again. I don't know if it helps. The balsa core does seem to soak it up. It sure makes us feel better :-) Then bed with boatlife caulk as you would normally and tighen properly. In about 15 years the caulking will in some cases have shrunk and cracked. Consider re-bedding before any water damage can occur. Later Bob Honshells wrote: Jeff, I'm absolutely inspired by this alternative viewpoint, because, besides my fiberglass repair and maintenance man in West Michigan, the best in the business, I've never heard anyone else express it. My repairman also pooh-poohs the wisdom that holes for cored deck fittings should be routed out and epoxied: His point being that a poorly bedded fitting will allow moisture to get to the core, whether the epoxy is there or not. I appreciate your point that the manufacturer does not instruct the user to allow the bedding to dry. Both the alternative view on bedding and the alternative view on the use of epoxy, if scientifically sound, could be liberating, because they require fewer steps. My experience with epoxy has been that it takes an alchemist to properly mix and apply the stuff. I'd like to see Practical Sailor (magazine) tests using both methods for each process. --Craig ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Grudin" <grudin@vdbs.com> To: <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, March 10, 2002 9:33 AM Subject: M_Boats: Teak Bedding This is an interesting topic. A friend and I always have this discussion and we don't have an answer. I feel that leaving the bedding to set up and then tighten can lead to some problems. But as are the reasons given for doing this, mine are also just conjecture. My thought is that you only want the bedding compound to fill the small spaces that are left after tightening the bolts, any more would be excess. The water tight seal is formed as a result of the bond between the bedding compound and the items being bedded, and the filling of these small spaces. I don't think the water tight seal is solely the result of the bedding compound working as a gasket. If it were, wouldn't we be better off using a rubber gasket? It would certainly be easier and less messy. The bedding compound "never hardens" leaving a soft gasket between the items being bedded. If allowed to dry first then tightened, you will never get the items tightened as tight and motionless as without the bedding compound. The excess would lead to more motion in the joint which would have a tendency to break the bond between the compound and items being bedded and lead to leakage faster. The directions on the tube don't say to do let dry and then tighten, It would seem that if it were a better technique, the manufacturer would recommend it. Does any one have an authoritative answer? ___ 73 de AC6KW <mailto:jeff@grudin.net> Jeff Grudin, DVM Web Add: http://www.grudin.net Ocean Animal Clinic / Cat Clinic of Santa Cruz - Santa Cruz, California Montgomery 23 Hull #072 Norcal QRP * QRP-L * ARS * AR Qrp
participants (5)
-
Bob -
Honshells -
Jeff Grudin -
Roberta & Mark Dvorscak -
Steve R