On 03/19/2019 10:23 AM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:

...And what holds the back of the boom up with the sail down or reefed?  Was there originally a topping lift to the masthead?

No idea if originally was one,but described my setup in last mail. Topping lift is usually only for sail down/halyard slack. When you reef the sail holds the boom up same as when not reefed and you want your topping lift slacked off.

The aft end of my boom has a short piece of line that is long enough to reach the ring in the backstay arrangement; maybe they tied it there?

Mine has that too, with a small clip on the end. For hanging the aft end of boom on the backstay ring when the boat is 'asleep' and moored or in a slip etc.

The gooseneck appears to have a spot for the tack, a reefing hook, and an eyelet on the bottom.

Sounds like same hardware as mine, which came with reefing hooks on both sides. There was a thread a while back about tack reefing setups...lines being preferred by most as I recall. I have been using the hooks because I have no mast gate, and use a stop to keep slugs from spilling out of track when lowering main. I need to make a mast gate as it makes it quicker/easier to reef either way (hooks or tack lines). Fussing with track stop and slugs takes more time than the whole rest of reefing.

My mainsail has slugs/slides on the luff, and a boltrope on the foot.  I've read of people having trouble with the slugs coming out of the opening in it's stock position, and I'm wondering if there is a better spot to have the opening machined.

If they can set you up with a mast gate right from the start that would take care of this issue. Any time you lower the main, any slugs that lower to the gate will come out of the gate, unless you have a track stop above the gate. Which is then a pain for reefing, see above...

I want to get new standing rigging too, so this would be the time to make any changes.

I have had good service and good prices from Rigging Only: https://www.riggingandhardware.com/ Small personalized company, I would take them over Worst Marine any day. They really know what questions to ask so that you get the right pieces on the ends of the wire. That said, there is no rigging shop anywhere near here that I could go to in person so if you can go in person, check that out first.

My rigging seems to be the original style with oval swage sleeves.  I might stay with that style unless there is a good reason to change it all over.

If by oval swage sleeves you mean Nicopress or similar - where a loop is put in the wire, usually around a stainless thimble, and the loop is fixed by the swaged sleeve, to make an end to fasten something to - that is what I had on all of my standing rigging when I got her. But I think mine was not original - the previous owner said they had some rigging work done. The swaged loops hang up on everything, catch or jam crooked on the U-shaped connectors that connect them to mast or turnbuckles, catch lines, etc. I would get rid of them entirely if you are getting new standing rigging. Get swaged eyes or forks (with toggles if needed) to suit the connections aloft, and swaged studs (to turnbuckles at bottom). I have replaced my forestay (had to, to install a furler) and backstay (had to, because original forestay was a bit too short so new forestay required new backstay). So nice to have the right hardware at both ends. cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Hi Gerry, Let's start with your mast question: Can you remove the mast fitting with the sheaves for the main halyard from the old mast?  Do this, and take it along to Dyer when you buy the mast so that you can see if your mast fitting will fit in the mast profile that he has available.  Jerry got his masts from a California supplier that is no longer in business, so that exact mast shape that Jerry used may be different from what Dyer can offer you. If the mast profile is slightly different, then buy Dyer's mast top fitting to fit the mast shape you are buying.  It make your life a lot simpler when rebuilding the mast. All you need to tell Dyer is the width of the mast  shape; the fore and aft dimension; the total length of the new mast you want; and the location of the sail slide entrance slot -_*measured from the bottom of the mast*_ to bottom of the slot and to top of the slot.  Dyer will cut it according to your dimensions. When you drive home from Dyer with your new mast, you will have a very long dangerous spear tied on your car's roof. You have to tie it down so that it can't swing around from the air pressure while driving; (build some "U" shaped blocks that can be  firmly fastened on the roof rack crossbars into which the mast can fit) you also have to make certain that it can't slide fore or aft if you have to brake suddenly.  You are traveling with a long dangerous weapon on the roof of your car.  Don't forget to add red flags at both ends to warn people of the length. My boom has a goose neck that slides in the mast slot.  Once inserted in the widened area, it can slide up or down; what is the correct place for the boom on the mast, and what keeps it there? Gerry, you feed the sail slugs into the mast slot, one after another. When you get to the gooseneck on the end of the boom, it too, goes into the slot. At this point you need a "Sail stop". This is a piece of round metal with a threaded hole in the middle. A plastic knob has the threaded screw that fits into the slug. You slide this sail stop into the mast slot; tighten the knob and it now holds your sail slides and goose neck in place, so that nothing can fall out of the sail slot. There is only one small problem with these sail stops. They love to go swimming. If the knob loosens up, the sail stop can slide to the slot opening; it then yells yippy jumps into the air,uses the deck as a trampoline and bounces overboard. Always have spare ones on board, or, .... if you get tired of buying replacements wrap two or three turns of bungee cord around the mast, and that holds everything in place too - and bungee cord doesn't like to go swimming. When you hoist the main sail to the top of the mast with the main halyard, the goose neck will ride up to its approximate working position. At the aft base of the mast - on the slot side - there should be an eye with a line. This line is your boom downhaul. I goes up to the eye at the bottom of the gooseneck and then down to a cleat on the port side of the mast. This is a control line that allows you to tighten the leach of the mainsail thereby controlling the shape of the sail under various wind conditions. It also prevents the boom from riding further up the mast if the wind speed increases. *And what holds **the back of the boom up with the sail down or reefed?* This is called a topping lift. You already have a topping lift; the short length of line that reaches the ring on the back stay. The problem with that solution is that you can't adjust the boom height to your liking. I would suggest you add a small eye at the port side mast top - location not critical - put a small Harken swivel block there, and then you can run a topping lift from the end of your boom to the top of your mast; through the swivel block; and then down to a cleat on the port side of the mast. That adjustable topping lift allows you to put the boom where you want it; horizontal in a normal operating condition; or higher up so that you can put a tarp over it and gain useful space in your cockpit if it is raining. You don't use a topping lift when reefed (you have to take up some slack so that it doesn't leave loops of line that can catch on something) The reefed sail will keep the boom in a proper position. *The gooseneck appears to have a spot for the tack, a reefing hook, and an eyelet on the bottom*. The tack of the mainsail is held by a pin in the gooseneck. The eyelet at the bottom of the gooseneck is for the boom downhaul. The boom end should have a out-haul for the clew of the mainsail. - more sail shape adjustment possibilities. Maybe you'll be able to identify these items in your cardboard box of "parts". See if you can identify the fittings I described on your old mast. How badly is the mast damaged? Does it just have a slight bend (that can usually be straightened) but it it is really bent, as mine was after an encounter with a large oak tree limb,you need a new one. Connie formerly lived in Glastonbury, CT now in Dallas, TX ex M-15 #400 LEPPO On 3/19/2019 12:23 PM, Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats wrote:

Thanks for the replies so far.  All that info has been helpful.  Also, I just found out I lied!  I did find a milk crate loaded with lines and blocks had slid back in the quarter berth.  Let me explain a little more about what I am doing.  I got this boat reasonably (I think) because it needs a mast (it looks like it fell or was dropped).  I'm also new to sailing, so all the terms and parts are new to me although I've been reading like crazy and trying to put together what I read with what I see.  (I did join a club for this coming year, and have some people to mentor me, but they have not seen the M17 yet, nor are they intimately familiar with the M-17 rigging.  That said, when I get the new mast, I'd like to incorporate any changes that should be done at that time.  I'm within driving distance of Dwyer, so I'll go out there with my mast and get the new one ordered.  My boom has a gooseneck that slides in the mast slot.  Once inserted in the widened area, it can slide up or down; what is the correct place for the boom on the mast, and what keeps it there?  And what holds the back of the boom up with the sail down or reefed?  Was there originally a topping lift to the masthead?  The aft end of my boom has a short piece of line that is long enough to reach the ring in the backstay arrangement; maybe they tied it there?The gooseneck appears to have a spot for the tack, a reefing hook, and an eyelet on the bottom.  My mainsail has slugs/slides on the luff, and a boltrope on the foot.  I've read of people having trouble with the slugs coming out of the opening in it's stock position, and I'm wondering if there is a better spot to have the opening machined.  And speaking of a new mast, I assume I should stay with the same length if I'm using the same sails?  My mast is 21'4" (extrusion only, not including masthead).  I want to get new standing rigging too, so this would be the time to make any changes. My rigging seems to be the original style with oval swage sleeves.  I might stay with that style unless there is a good reason to change it all over. I took a series of photos in order to clarify and ask some more specific questions; is there a good way to share them with the list?  Are you all on the FB group? Thanks again!Gerry

Hi Gerry, In the pics I do not see a boom vang. I never had a M17, but it is a good idea to get a boom vang imo. (Some call these a boom preventer) Otherwise, when jibing in strong air, the boom can lift at the back and catch on the backstay, so that it fails to cross to the other side and can cause a capsize. If you don't have one, it would be wise to ask the M17 owners about it. --Burt On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 1:23 PM Gerry Lempicki via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:

Thanks for the replies so far. All that info has been helpful. Also, I just found out I lied! I did find a milk crate loaded with lines and blocks had slid back in the quarter berth. Let me explain a little more about what I am doing. I got this boat reasonably (I think) because it needs a mast (it looks like it fell or was dropped). I'm also new to sailing, so all the terms and parts are new to me although I've been reading like crazy and trying to put together what I read with what I see. (I did join a club for this coming year, and have some people to mentor me, but they have not seen the M17 yet, nor are they intimately familiar with the M-17 rigging. That said, when I get the new mast, I'd like to incorporate any changes that should be done at that time. I'm within driving distance of Dwyer, so I'll go out there with my mast and get the new one ordered. My boom has a gooseneck that slides in the mast slot. Once inserted in the widened area, it can slide up or down; what is the correct place for the boom on the mast, and what keeps it there? And what holds the back of the boom up with the sail down or reefed? Was there originally a topping lift to the masthead? The aft end of my boom has a short piece of line that is long enough to reach the ring in the backstay arrangement; maybe they tied it there?The gooseneck appears to have a spot for the tack, a reefing hook, and an eyelet on the bottom. My mainsail has slugs/slides on the luff, and a boltrope on the foot. I've read of people having trouble with the slugs coming out of the opening in it's stock position, and I'm wondering if there is a better spot to have the opening machined. And speaking of a new mast, I assume I should stay with the same length if I'm using the same sails? My mast is 21'4" (extrusion only, not including masthead). I want to get new standing rigging too, so this would be the time to make any changes. My rigging seems to be the original style with oval swage sleeves. I might stay with that style unless there is a good reason to change it all over. I took a series of photos in order to clarify and ask some more specific questions; is there a good way to share them with the list? Are you all on the FB group? Thanks again!Gerry