Why are we even discussing this? Just in theory, right?? Or maybe it is a slow period on a lot of the sailing forums. Someone wants to take a very good boat, and build in flotation. Taking up very good useful space on a fairly small boat (15 or 17). With the chance of damaging the boat in the process. Maybe it will absorb, maybe it won't. Maybe it will mildew, maybe it won't. Will it break down in 5, 10, 15 years into gooey, cruddy $#%&"<?. Will it burn even more than an empty boat? Just having it in there, even new, may devalue the boat for any potential resale with who knows what foam in it. Yes, I know, we will NEVER sell, but life happens. Yes, boats can sink. IF the skipper takes them into danger, or sails them recklessly. Boats can also be refloated, repaired, and reused again. Wear your PFD, every time you go out. Have at it. Bill On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 6:27 PM, Gary M Hyde <gmhyde1@mac.com> wrote:
What about the aerosol foam in a can? It is easy to use. ⎈--Gary ☺
On Oct 22, 2009, at 1:50 PM, mrh219@yahoo.com wrote:
Clark Craft ( among others) sells a two part urethane foam that is supposed
to be closed cell to fill areas of boats (usually boat kits that you bought from them). Everybody says to do it in small batches so it doesn't get out of control, but I'm trying to get an idea of how much would be necessary. Not a lot of room in the forward compartment (which was screwed shut anyway on my boat) and lots of space in the stern.
________________________________ From: Larry E Yake <leyake@juno.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 9:54:27 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 floatation
As I recall from the last time this came up, expanding foam is not closed cell. Meaning it will absorb moisture, which would allow all sorts of undesirable things to grow inside. Also, it is a real mess when you want to remove it. You need closed cell foam. Larry
On Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:32:23 -0500 Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> writes:
Forgetting flotation for a minute, how does the two part expanding foam work as insulation vs. say......white or blue styrofoam?
On Oct 22, 2009, at 8:24 AM, <htmills@zoominternet.net> wrote:
Sean is right. Even if there is a substantial opening for the
foam to
expand out of, it can do scary things.
(I, too, speak from personal experience)
Tod Mills M17 #408, 1987 galley model BuscaBrisas
-----Original Message-----
From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf
Of
Nebwest2@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 1:19 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: Re: M_Boats: m-15 floatation
"two part closed cell foam "
If you are talking about 2 part pour foam...the type where you
mix
part
"a" with part "b" and it instantly starts growing and forming
foam....be
careful. If you mix this stuff in a closed container where it
cannot
expand as
it needs to...or if it forms solid foam and blocks off its own
exit
while it
is still expanding ......it can do some scary things! Just know
that
it
IS going to expand....even if it needs to push you hull liner or
cockpit
walls
out of the way to do it...IT IS going to expand! Make sure to carefully calculate how much you mix so you don't turn your Monty 15 into a
Monty
19!
Please do not ask that I relate how I became familiar with the expansion properties of 2 part pour foam!!
:-) let's just say that I have had "confirmation" of some part
of
the
above statement!
Sean M23 "Dauntless" _www.havasumontgomerys.piczo.com_ (http://www.havasumontgomerys.piczo.com) _______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.423 / Virus Database: 270.14.24/2449 - Release
Date:
10/20/09 18:42:00
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
__________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
well stated bill! i always thought the foam in my 15 would just keep the boat 'floating' when she had no stores. adding up anchors (two), extra lines, personal supplies, food, fuel, outboard, etc. etc. etc. i had no expectation a few cubic-feet of foam would keep the boat 'above water'. the greater danger in puget sound sailing is the 52 degree water 12 months of the year. you are in this water for 15 or so minutes and you have bigger problems that if the boat is sinking. wear that PFD! * steps onto soapbox * the m17 has no foam ... the difference a few feet make because of an rule written to make people 'feel safe'. this is much like the bright orange 'CO hazard' sticker i'm required to post in the cabin. the boat is no safer because of this sticker. make good choices. * now steps off soapbox * dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com --- On Thu, 10/22/09, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote: Why are we even discussing this? Just in theory, right?? Or maybe it is a slow period on a lot of the sailing forums. Someone wants to take a very good boat, and build in flotation. Taking up very good useful space on a fairly small boat (15 or 17). With the chance of damaging the boat in the process. Maybe it will absorb, maybe it won't. Maybe it will mildew, maybe it won't. Will it break down in 5, 10, 15 years into gooey, cruddy $#%&"<?. Will it burn even more than an empty boat? Just having it in there, even new, may devalue the boat for any potential resale with who knows what foam in it. Yes, I know, we will NEVER sell, but life happens. Yes, boats can sink. IF the skipper takes them into danger, or sails them recklessly. Boats can also be refloated, repaired, and reused again. Wear your PFD, every time you go out. Have at it. Bill
Just to clear my record.......M17 #278.....Auasea.....under my stewardship has no flotation and none is being contemplated. If it comes to it, my plan is to follow Blondie Hasler's suggestion to "drown like a proper English gentlemen". That was in the context of what to do if you fall overboard while singlehanding.......but also applies if the boat sinks out from under you. My interest was far more serious.......a plan/method to keep the beer cold. Howard On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:59 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
well stated bill! i always thought the foam in my 15 would just keep the boat 'floating' when she had no stores. adding up anchors (two), extra lines, personal supplies, food, fuel, outboard, etc. etc. etc. i had no expectation a few cubic-feet of foam would keep the boat 'above water'. the greater danger in puget sound sailing is the 52 degree water 12 months of the year. you are in this water for 15 or so minutes and you have bigger problems that if the boat is sinking. wear that PFD! * steps onto soapbox * the m17 has no foam ... the difference a few feet make because of an rule written to make people 'feel safe'. this is much like the bright orange 'CO hazard' sticker i'm required to post in the cabin. the boat is no safer because of this sticker. make good choices. * now steps off soapbox * dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Thu, 10/22/09, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Why are we even discussing this? Just in theory, right?? Or maybe it is a slow period on a lot of the sailing forums.
Someone wants to take a very good boat, and build in flotation. Taking up very good useful space on a fairly small boat (15 or 17). With the chance of damaging the boat in the process. Maybe it will absorb, maybe it won't. Maybe it will mildew, maybe it won't. Will it break down in 5, 10, 15 years into gooey, cruddy $#%&"<?. Will it burn even more than an empty boat? Just having it in there, even new, may devalue the boat for any potential resale with who knows what foam in it. Yes, I know, we will NEVER sell, but life happens.
Yes, boats can sink. IF the skipper takes them into danger, or sails them recklessly. Boats can also be refloated, repaired, and reused again. Wear your PFD, every time you go out.
Have at it.
Bill
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Howard, Anything to enhance the comfort of on board beverages is to be commended. Mind you, here in Ontario, we can no longer drink and drive on the water either. Fines and suspensions same as driving on land. We can get our driving licence suspended for open beer etc while on board a moving boat. We have been exploring the offerings of "de-alcholized" brews. Our last sail of the season (we think) this past Tuesday, it was thermos of coffee and thermos of soup close at hand. Was in the high 40's. Gloves and a toque on. Light wind, flat water, and a milky sun coming and going. Bill On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 6:50 AM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net>wrote:
Just to clear my record.......M17 #278.....Auasea.....under my stewardship has no flotation and none is being contemplated. If it comes to it, my plan is to follow Blondie Hasler's suggestion to "drown like a proper English gentlemen". That was in the context of what to do if you fall overboard while singlehanding.......but also applies if the boat sinks out from under you.
My interest was far more serious.......a plan/method to keep the beer cold.
Howard
On Oct 22, 2009, at 11:59 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
well stated bill!
i always thought the foam in my 15 would just keep the boat 'floating' when she had no stores. adding up anchors (two), extra lines, personal supplies, food, fuel, outboard, etc. etc. etc. i had no expectation a few cubic-feet of foam would keep the boat 'above water'.
the greater danger in puget sound sailing is the 52 degree water 12 months of the year. you are in this water for 15 or so minutes and you have bigger problems that if the boat is sinking. wear that PFD!
* steps onto soapbox *
the m17 has no foam ... the difference a few feet make because of an rule written to make people 'feel safe'. this is much like the bright orange 'CO hazard' sticker i'm required to post in the cabin. the boat is no safer because of this sticker.
make good choices.
* now steps off soapbox *
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Thu, 10/22/09, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Why are we even discussing this? Just in theory, right?? Or maybe it is a slow period on a lot of the sailing forums.
Someone wants to take a very good boat, and build in flotation. Taking up very good useful space on a fairly small boat (15 or 17). With the chance of damaging the boat in the process. Maybe it will absorb, maybe it won't. Maybe it will mildew, maybe it won't. Will it break down in 5, 10, 15 years into gooey, cruddy $#%&"<?. Will it burn even more than an empty boat? Just having it in there, even new, may devalue the boat for any potential resale with who knows what foam in it. Yes, I know, we will NEVER sell, but life happens.
Yes, boats can sink. IF the skipper takes them into danger, or sails them recklessly. Boats can also be refloated, repaired, and reused again. Wear your PFD, every time you go out.
Have at it.
Bill
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
W David Scobie wrote: Hi Gang, May I add my two cents worth of input to this discussion....? _*The first order of business*_ in any boat, large or small, is to do everything you possibly can to keep the outside water from ever getting inside the boat. If the water can't get inside the boat, then the boat keeps floating; whether lying flat in the water; or with the mast underwater, or even turned turtle. _*If water can't get inside the boat; the boat will still float.*_ To do that effectively you have close and secure every opening in the boat where water could intrude. The first thing is to have sail locker lids that close and then can be locked in the closed position, to prevent the sail locker lids from opening in the event of a knock-down; swamping; or what-have-you. I added hasps to our old M15 sail locker lids so that I could add locks, and I set the hasps up so that with the lock removed, there was still enough friction so that the hasps wouldn't flop open by themselves. You had to use some degree of force to open them. The next step was to add gasketing material under the sail locker lid, so that when the sail ocker was closed you had a good seal. As I recall, I used a 1 inch wide adhesive backed closed-cell foam strip that was located on the bottom of the locker lid so that it met the upper surface of the opening of the sail locker, and formed a complete seal of the lid. With this accomplished, no water can get into the boat via the sail locker lids. The remaining opening that has to be secured against water intrusion is the companionway. If the weather starts deteriorating, put the hatch boards in place, and close the companionway hatch cover before you start to reef. The companionway hatch also has to have some means of being locked in the closed position so that it can't slide open as a wave slides under the stern of the boat and the bow heads downwards into the wave trough. This would allow the companionway hatch to slide to the wide open position. On our M15, I had another hasp on the front lip of the companionway hatch and the upper hatch board so that I could lock the cabin when we were away from the boat. Closing this hasp and sliding a peg into the hasp securely fastened the companionway from inadvertently sliding open. I had also added a 3" NICRO vent to the foredeck for ventilation. If weather threatened to deteriorate, the 3" vent was removed and the vent opening was closed with the screw-in plate. Now the boat was totally closed up and any water that might try to come aboard stayed outside where it belonged. ----------------------------------- I removed the foam from the front compartment and put several 1 gallon water containers up there. It added weight forward where it was needed for trim, as well as providing space for my third anchor / chain / rode. Extra beer and wine bottles also were stored in that area. When the gallon water containers were empty they made great additional flotation devices. However, I still love the recent idea of using the plastic bladder in the 3 liter wine boxes for either : water storage; empty as flotation; or as a pillow. Now that is making good use of a product. Fair winds and Happy sailing, Connie & Katrina ex M15 #400 LEPPO
well stated bill!
i always thought the foam in my 15 would just keep the boat 'floating' when she had no stores. adding up anchors (two), extra lines, personal supplies, food, fuel, outboard, etc. etc. etc. i had no expectation a few cubic-feet of foam would keep the boat 'above water'.
the greater danger in puget sound sailing is the 52 degree water 12 months of the year. you are in this water for 15 or so minutes and you have bigger problems that if the boat is sinking. wear that PFD!
* steps onto soapbox *
the m17 has no foam ... the difference a few feet make because of an rule written to make people 'feel safe'. this is much like the bright orange 'CO hazard' sticker i'm required to post in the cabin. the boat is no safer because of this sticker.
make good choices.
* now steps off soapbox *
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Thu, 10/22/09, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Why are we even discussing this? Just in theory, right?? Or maybe it is a slow period on a lot of the sailing forums.
Someone wants to take a very good boat, and build in flotation. Taking up very good useful space on a fairly small boat (15 or 17). With the chance of damaging the boat in the process. Maybe it will absorb, maybe it won't. Maybe it will mildew, maybe it won't. Will it break down in 5, 10, 15 years into gooey, cruddy $#%&"<?. Will it burn even more than an empty boat? Just having it in there, even new, may devalue the boat for any potential resale with who knows what foam in it. Yes, I know, we will NEVER sell, but life happens.
Yes, boats can sink. IF the skipper takes them into danger, or sails them recklessly. Boats can also be refloated, repaired, and reused again. Wear your PFD, every time you go out.
Have at it.
Bill
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
In addition to Connie's excellent advice, I would also add that on the older M17's at least, you also have the cockpit drain, sink drain and for those with the old knot meters, the hole for the transducer. So counting the cockpit locker (open to the boat) and hatch, you have at least 5 holes that could sink your boat. Good to check them all now and then. (Then have a beer). BTW, in areas where you can't "sail under the influence" can you "anchor under the influence"? Howard On Oct 23, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Conbert H. Benneck wrote:
W David Scobie wrote:
Hi Gang,
May I add my two cents worth of input to this discussion....?
_*The first order of business*_ in any boat, large or small, is to do everything you possibly can to keep the outside water from ever getting inside the boat. If the water can't get inside the boat, then the boat keeps floating; whether lying flat in the water; or with the mast underwater, or even turned turtle. _*If water can't get inside the boat; the boat will still float.*_
To do that effectively you have close and secure every opening in the boat where water could intrude.
The first thing is to have sail locker lids that close and then can be locked in the closed position, to prevent the sail locker lids from opening in the event of a knock-down; swamping; or what-have-you. I added hasps to our old M15 sail locker lids so that I could add locks, and I set the hasps up so that with the lock removed, there was still enough friction so that the hasps wouldn't flop open by themselves. You had to use some degree of force to open them.
The next step was to add gasketing material under the sail locker lid, so that when the sail ocker was closed you had a good seal. As I recall, I used a 1 inch wide adhesive backed closed-cell foam strip that was located on the bottom of the locker lid so that it met the upper surface of the opening of the sail locker, and formed a complete seal of the lid.
With this accomplished, no water can get into the boat via the sail locker lids.
The remaining opening that has to be secured against water intrusion is the companionway. If the weather starts deteriorating, put the hatch boards in place, and close the companionway hatch cover before you start to reef. The companionway hatch also has to have some means of being locked in the closed position so that it can't slide open as a wave slides under the stern of the boat and the bow heads downwards into the wave trough. This would allow the companionway hatch to slide to the wide open position. On our M15, I had another hasp on the front lip of the companionway hatch and the upper hatch board so that I could lock the cabin when we were away from the boat. Closing this hasp and sliding a peg into the hasp securely fastened the companionway from inadvertently sliding open.
I had also added a 3" NICRO vent to the foredeck for ventilation. If weather threatened to deteriorate, the 3" vent was removed and the vent opening was closed with the screw-in plate.
Now the boat was totally closed up and any water that might try to come aboard stayed outside where it belonged.
Howard, I believe the law is that if you have accomodations with head and cooking facilities below, you can drink at anchor. That puts us in a questionable position I guess. We do have a porta potti, and we have cooked below, but it is not a permanent galley. Just have to play it as the cards are dealt I guess. I will look up the law. Bill On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net>wrote:
In addition to Connie's excellent advice, I would also add that on the older M17's at least, you also have the cockpit drain, sink drain and for those with the old knot meters, the hole for the transducer. So counting the cockpit locker (open to the boat) and hatch, you have at least 5 holes that could sink your boat. Good to check them all now and then. (Then have a beer).
BTW, in areas where you can't "sail under the influence" can you "anchor under the influence"?
Howard
On Oct 23, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Conbert H. Benneck wrote:
W David Scobie wrote:
Hi Gang,
May I add my two cents worth of input to this discussion....?
_*The first order of business*_ in any boat, large or small, is to do everything you possibly can to keep the outside water from ever getting inside the boat. If the water can't get inside the boat, then the boat keeps floating; whether lying flat in the water; or with the mast underwater, or even turned turtle. _*If water can't get inside the boat; the boat will still float.*_
To do that effectively you have close and secure every opening in the boat where water could intrude.
The first thing is to have sail locker lids that close and then can be locked in the closed position, to prevent the sail locker lids from opening in the event of a knock-down; swamping; or what-have-you. I added hasps to our old M15 sail locker lids so that I could add locks, and I set the hasps up so that with the lock removed, there was still enough friction so that the hasps wouldn't flop open by themselves. You had to use some degree of force to open them.
The next step was to add gasketing material under the sail locker lid, so that when the sail ocker was closed you had a good seal. As I recall, I used a 1 inch wide adhesive backed closed-cell foam strip that was located on the bottom of the locker lid so that it met the upper surface of the opening of the sail locker, and formed a complete seal of the lid.
With this accomplished, no water can get into the boat via the sail locker lids.
The remaining opening that has to be secured against water intrusion is the companionway. If the weather starts deteriorating, put the hatch boards in place, and close the companionway hatch cover before you start to reef. The companionway hatch also has to have some means of being locked in the closed position so that it can't slide open as a wave slides under the stern of the boat and the bow heads downwards into the wave trough. This would allow the companionway hatch to slide to the wide open position. On our M15, I had another hasp on the front lip of the companionway hatch and the upper hatch board so that I could lock the cabin when we were away from the boat. Closing this hasp and sliding a peg into the hasp securely fastened the companionway from inadvertently sliding open.
I had also added a 3" NICRO vent to the foredeck for ventilation. If weather threatened to deteriorate, the 3" vent was removed and the vent opening was closed with the screw-in plate.
Now the boat was totally closed up and any water that might try to come aboard stayed outside where it belonged.
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Ooooo........since Audasea is a galley model with a porta-potti, I'm all set! On Oct 23, 2009, at 4:10 PM, Bill Wickett wrote:
Howard,
I believe the law is that if you have accomodations with head and cooking facilities below, you can drink at anchor. That puts us in a questionable position I guess. We do have a porta potti, and we have cooked below, but it is not a permanent galley. Just have to play it as the cards are dealt I guess. I will look up the law.
Bill
On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:58 PM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net>wrote:
In addition to Connie's excellent advice, I would also add that on the older M17's at least, you also have the cockpit drain, sink drain and for those with the old knot meters, the hole for the transducer. So counting the cockpit locker (open to the boat) and hatch, you have at least 5 holes that could sink your boat. Good to check them all now and then. (Then have a beer).
BTW, in areas where you can't "sail under the influence" can you "anchor under the influence"?
Howard
On Oct 23, 2009, at 3:01 PM, Conbert H. Benneck wrote:
W David Scobie wrote:
Hi Gang,
May I add my two cents worth of input to this discussion....?
_*The first order of business*_ in any boat, large or small, is to do everything you possibly can to keep the outside water from ever getting inside the boat. If the water can't get inside the boat, then the boat keeps floating; whether lying flat in the water; or with the mast underwater, or even turned turtle. _*If water can't get inside the boat; the boat will still float.*_
To do that effectively you have close and secure every opening in the boat where water could intrude.
The first thing is to have sail locker lids that close and then can be locked in the closed position, to prevent the sail locker lids from opening in the event of a knock-down; swamping; or what-have-you. I added hasps to our old M15 sail locker lids so that I could add locks, and I set the hasps up so that with the lock removed, there was still enough friction so that the hasps wouldn't flop open by themselves. You had to use some degree of force to open them.
The next step was to add gasketing material under the sail locker lid, so that when the sail ocker was closed you had a good seal. As I recall, I used a 1 inch wide adhesive backed closed-cell foam strip that was located on the bottom of the locker lid so that it met the upper surface of the opening of the sail locker, and formed a complete seal of the lid.
With this accomplished, no water can get into the boat via the sail locker lids.
The remaining opening that has to be secured against water intrusion is the companionway. If the weather starts deteriorating, put the hatch boards in place, and close the companionway hatch cover before you start to reef. The companionway hatch also has to have some means of being locked in the closed position so that it can't slide open as a wave slides under the stern of the boat and the bow heads downwards into the wave trough. This would allow the companionway hatch to slide to the wide open position. On our M15, I had another hasp on the front lip of the companionway hatch and the upper hatch board so that I could lock the cabin when we were away from the boat. Closing this hasp and sliding a peg into the hasp securely fastened the companionway from inadvertently sliding open.
I had also added a 3" NICRO vent to the foredeck for ventilation. If weather threatened to deteriorate, the 3" vent was removed and the vent opening was closed with the screw-in plate.
Now the boat was totally closed up and any water that might try to come aboard stayed outside where it belonged.
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Connie, Using the 3 liter wine bag as a pillow is a great idea. Although, if it was emptied all at one go, I might not care if I had a pillow or not! Bill On Fri, Oct 23, 2009 at 4:01 PM, Conbert H. Benneck <chbenneck@sbcglobal.net
wrote:
W David Scobie wrote:
Hi Gang,
May I add my two cents worth of input to this discussion....?
_*The first order of business*_ in any boat, large or small, is to do everything you possibly can to keep the outside water from ever getting inside the boat. If the water can't get inside the boat, then the boat keeps floating; whether lying flat in the water; or with the mast underwater, or even turned turtle. _*If water can't get inside the boat; the boat will still float.*_
To do that effectively you have close and secure every opening in the boat where water could intrude.
The first thing is to have sail locker lids that close and then can be locked in the closed position, to prevent the sail locker lids from opening in the event of a knock-down; swamping; or what-have-you. I added hasps to our old M15 sail locker lids so that I could add locks, and I set the hasps up so that with the lock removed, there was still enough friction so that the hasps wouldn't flop open by themselves. You had to use some degree of force to open them.
The next step was to add gasketing material under the sail locker lid, so that when the sail ocker was closed you had a good seal. As I recall, I used a 1 inch wide adhesive backed closed-cell foam strip that was located on the bottom of the locker lid so that it met the upper surface of the opening of the sail locker, and formed a complete seal of the lid.
With this accomplished, no water can get into the boat via the sail locker lids.
The remaining opening that has to be secured against water intrusion is the companionway. If the weather starts deteriorating, put the hatch boards in place, and close the companionway hatch cover before you start to reef. The companionway hatch also has to have some means of being locked in the closed position so that it can't slide open as a wave slides under the stern of the boat and the bow heads downwards into the wave trough. This would allow the companionway hatch to slide to the wide open position. On our M15, I had another hasp on the front lip of the companionway hatch and the upper hatch board so that I could lock the cabin when we were away from the boat. Closing this hasp and sliding a peg into the hasp securely fastened the companionway from inadvertently sliding open.
I had also added a 3" NICRO vent to the foredeck for ventilation. If weather threatened to deteriorate, the 3" vent was removed and the vent opening was closed with the screw-in plate.
Now the boat was totally closed up and any water that might try to come aboard stayed outside where it belonged.
-----------------------------------
I removed the foam from the front compartment and put several 1 gallon water containers up there. It added weight forward where it was needed for trim, as well as providing space for my third anchor / chain / rode. Extra beer and wine bottles also were stored in that area. When the gallon water containers were empty they made great additional flotation devices. However, I still love the recent idea of using the plastic bladder in the 3 liter wine boxes for either : water storage; empty as flotation; or as a pillow. Now that is making good use of a product.
Fair winds and Happy sailing,
Connie & Katrina ex M15 #400 LEPPO
well stated bill!
i always thought the foam in my 15 would just keep the boat 'floating' when she had no stores. adding up anchors (two), extra lines, personal supplies, food, fuel, outboard, etc. etc. etc. i had no expectation a few cubic-feet of foam would keep the boat 'above water'. the greater danger in puget sound sailing is the 52 degree water 12 months of the year. you are in this water for 15 or so minutes and you have bigger problems that if the boat is sinking. wear that PFD! * steps onto soapbox * the m17 has no foam ... the difference a few feet make because of an rule written to make people 'feel safe'. this is much like the bright orange 'CO hazard' sticker i'm required to post in the cabin. the boat is no safer because of this sticker. make good choices. * now steps off soapbox * dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Thu, 10/22/09, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Why are we even discussing this? Just in theory, right?? Or maybe it is a slow period on a lot of the sailing forums.
Someone wants to take a very good boat, and build in flotation. Taking up very good useful space on a fairly small boat (15 or 17). With the chance of damaging the boat in the process. Maybe it will absorb, maybe it won't. Maybe it will mildew, maybe it won't. Will it break down in 5, 10, 15 years into gooey, cruddy $#%&"<?. Will it burn even more than an empty boat? Just having it in there, even new, may devalue the boat for any potential resale with who knows what foam in it. Yes, I know, we will NEVER sell, but life happens.
Yes, boats can sink. IF the skipper takes them into danger, or sails them recklessly. Boats can also be refloated, repaired, and reused again. Wear your PFD, every time you go out.
Have at it.
Bill
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
Well said Dave! ⎈--Gary ☺ On Oct 22, 2009, at 9:59 PM, W David Scobie wrote:
well stated bill!
i always thought the foam in my 15 would just keep the boat 'floating' when she had no stores. adding up anchors (two), extra lines, personal supplies, food, fuel, outboard, etc. etc. etc. i had no expectation a few cubic-feet of foam would keep the boat 'above water'.
the greater danger in puget sound sailing is the 52 degree water 12 months of the year. you are in this water for 15 or so minutes and you have bigger problems that if the boat is sinking. wear that PFD!
* steps onto soapbox *
the m17 has no foam ... the difference a few feet make because of an rule written to make people 'feel safe'. this is much like the bright orange 'CO hazard' sticker i'm required to post in the cabin. the boat is no safer because of this sticker.
make good choices.
* now steps off soapbox *
dave scobie M17 #375 - SWEET PEA visit SWEET PEA's www-site - http://www.m17-375.webs.com
--- On Thu, 10/22/09, Bill Wickett <billwick@gmail.com> wrote:
Why are we even discussing this? Just in theory, right?? Or maybe it is a slow period on a lot of the sailing forums.
Someone wants to take a very good boat, and build in flotation. Taking up very good useful space on a fairly small boat (15 or 17). With the chance of damaging the boat in the process. Maybe it will absorb, maybe it won't. Maybe it will mildew, maybe it won't. Will it break down in 5, 10, 15 years into gooey, cruddy $#%&"<?. Will it burn even more than an empty boat? Just having it in there, even new, may devalue the boat for any potential resale with who knows what foam in it. Yes, I know, we will NEVER sell, but life happens.
Yes, boats can sink. IF the skipper takes them into danger, or sails them recklessly. Boats can also be refloated, repaired, and reused again. Wear your PFD, every time you go out.
Have at it.
Bill
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Remember, there is no privacy on the Internet!
participants (5)
-
Bill Wickett -
Conbert H. Benneck -
Gary M Hyde -
Howard Audsley -
W David Scobie