Now What Have I Gotten Myself Into? Major Transom Repair
I finally got Chiquita, my Venture Newport cutter, in the water and on her mooring so I turned my attention to my 1979 M17 Amorita. The transom hull deck joint was cracked all around and there are several other cracks as well. I attacked the cracks with a grinder and belt sander, trying to bevel the cracks so I could lay in new fiberglass and epoxy. I ground through lots of filler/puitty and other evidence that the transom had been repaired before. I think it may have been in an accident of some sort. There is a 3/4" plywood core between the inner and outer transom skins. It looks like they attempted to bond the plywood in place but it had come loose. The plywood goes completely across the transom and extends from the top to just below the middle rudder gudgeon. There is a wide notch in the bottom of the plywood where it goes around the glassed-in gudgeon baqcking board. Anyway, I discovered that the lateral crack in the fiberglass extended all the way across the transom. A bit of tugging and the top half of the fiberglass skin came completely off in my hands. I plan on removing the 3/4" plywood "core" and replacing it with new plywood or something else recommended by you guys. I'll bond it to the inner fiberglass with thickened epoxy. Then I will glass over the outside of the core and build it up to the original thickness. Does that sound like it will work? Other questions: The plywood appears to have been added during a previous repair. Was there any type of "core" between the inner and outer transom as built? The plywood is fairly heavy. What other core material could I use? Balsa, Foam? Can I re-use the outer fiberglass panel that I had pulled off as part of the repair (for bulk) or should I just go with all new glass cloth, roving, and mat? Can I mix carbon fiber tape and regular fiberglass cloth in the laminate? Click on the link in my signature and go to the album "M17 Transom Repair" for pictures. I'll be copying this post to the Trailer Sailers Montgomery forum so I can post some pictures directly. Thanks in advance for your suggestions and tips. -- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
Based on my '76, the transoms were cored with plywood as you describe, but it is odd that your middle gudgeon has a separate backer. Perhaps the core was replaced in the past. I would stay with a plywood core to handle the weight of an outboard. You could use okume to save a few pounds but it is very expensive. Definitely reuse the outer skin if you can. It is a lot easier to fair a seam than a whole panel. Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 11, 2014, at 1:01 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I finally got Chiquita, my Venture Newport cutter, in the water and on her mooring so I turned my attention to my 1979 M17 Amorita. The transom hull deck joint was cracked all around and there are several other cracks as well. I attacked the cracks with a grinder and belt sander, trying to bevel the cracks so I could lay in new fiberglass and epoxy. I ground through lots of filler/puitty and other evidence that the transom had been repaired before. I think it may have been in an accident of some sort. There is a 3/4" plywood core between the inner and outer transom skins. It looks like they attempted to bond the plywood in place but it had come loose. The plywood goes completely across the transom and extends from the top to just below the middle rudder gudgeon. There is a wide notch in the bottom of the plywood where it goes around the glassed-in gudgeon baqcking board. Anyway, I discovered that the lateral crack in the fiberglass extended all the way across the transom. A bit of tugging and the top half of the fiberglass skin came completely off in my hands.
I plan on removing the 3/4" plywood "core" and replacing it with new plywood or something else recommended by you guys. I'll bond it to the inner fiberglass with thickened epoxy. Then I will glass over the outside of the core and build it up to the original thickness. Does that sound like it will work? Other questions:
The plywood appears to have been added during a previous repair. Was there any type of "core" between the inner and outer transom as built?
The plywood is fairly heavy. What other core material could I use? Balsa, Foam?
Can I re-use the outer fiberglass panel that I had pulled off as part of the repair (for bulk) or should I just go with all new glass cloth, roving, and mat?
Can I mix carbon fiber tape and regular fiberglass cloth in the laminate?
Click on the link in my signature and go to the album "M17 Transom Repair" for pictures. I'll be copying this post to the Trailer Sailers Montgomery forum so I can post some pictures directly.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions and tips.
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
Thanks! On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 8:59 AM, Stanley Wheatley <swwheatley@comcast.net> wrote:
Based on my '76, the transoms were cored with plywood as you describe, but it is odd that your middle gudgeon has a separate backer. Perhaps the core was replaced in the past. I would stay with a plywood core to handle the weight of an outboard. You could use okume to save a few pounds but it is very expensive. Definitely reuse the outer skin if you can. It is a lot easier to fair a seam than a whole panel.
Sent from my iPhone
On Jul 11, 2014, at 1:01 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I finally got Chiquita, my Venture Newport cutter, in the water and on her mooring so I turned my attention to my 1979 M17 Amorita. The transom hull deck joint was cracked all around and there are several other cracks as well. I attacked the cracks with a grinder and belt sander, trying to bevel the cracks so I could lay in new fiberglass and epoxy. I ground through lots of filler/puitty and other evidence that the transom had been repaired before. I think it may have been in an accident of some sort. There is a 3/4" plywood core between the inner and outer transom skins. It looks like they attempted to bond the plywood in place but it had come loose. The plywood goes completely across the transom and extends from the top to just below the middle rudder gudgeon. There is a wide notch in the bottom of the plywood where it goes around the glassed-in gudgeon baqcking board. Anyway, I discovered that the lateral crack in the fiberglass extended all the way across the transom. A bit of tugging and the top half of the fiberglass skin came completely off in my hands.
I plan on removing the 3/4" plywood "core" and replacing it with new plywood or something else recommended by you guys. I'll bond it to the inner fiberglass with thickened epoxy. Then I will glass over the outside of the core and build it up to the original thickness. Does that sound like it will work? Other questions:
The plywood appears to have been added during a previous repair. Was there any type of "core" between the inner and outer transom as built?
The plywood is fairly heavy. What other core material could I use? Balsa, Foam?
Can I re-use the outer fiberglass panel that I had pulled off as part of the repair (for bulk) or should I just go with all new glass cloth, roving, and mat?
Can I mix carbon fiber tape and regular fiberglass cloth in the laminate?
Click on the link in my signature and go to the album "M17 Transom Repair" for pictures. I'll be copying this post to the Trailer Sailers Montgomery forum so I can post some pictures directly.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions and tips.
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
Henry: from you photo it looks like your boat has/had a motor mount on the transom (instead of using the cutout for the motor as Jerry & Lyly designed). correct? -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I finally got Chiquita, my Venture Newport cutter, in the water and on her mooring so I turned my attention to my 1979 M17 Amorita. The transom hull deck joint was cracked all around and there are several other cracks as well. I attacked the cracks with a grinder and belt sander, trying to bevel the cracks so I could lay in new fiberglass and epoxy. I ground through lots of filler/puitty and other evidence that the transom had been repaired before. I think it may have been in an accident of some sort. There is a 3/4" plywood core between the inner and outer transom skins. It looks like they attempted to bond the plywood in place but it had come loose. The plywood goes completely across the transom and extends from the top to just below the middle rudder gudgeon. There is a wide notch in the bottom of the plywood where it goes around the glassed-in gudgeon baqcking board. Anyway, I discovered that the lateral crack in the fiberglass extended all the way across the transom. A bit of tugging and the top half of the fiberglass skin came completely off in my hands.
I plan on removing the 3/4" plywood "core" and replacing it with new plywood or something else recommended by you guys. I'll bond it to the inner fiberglass with thickened epoxy. Then I will glass over the outside of the core and build it up to the original thickness. Does that sound like it will work? Other questions:
The plywood appears to have been added during a previous repair. Was there any type of "core" between the inner and outer transom as built?
The plywood is fairly heavy. What other core material could I use? Balsa, Foam?
Can I re-use the outer fiberglass panel that I had pulled off as part of the repair (for bulk) or should I just go with all new glass cloth, roving, and mat?
Can I mix carbon fiber tape and regular fiberglass cloth in the laminate?
Click on the link in my signature and go to the album "M17 Transom Repair" for pictures. I'll be copying this post to the Trailer Sailers Montgomery forum so I can post some pictures directly.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions and tips.
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
Yep! On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry:
from you photo it looks like your boat has/had a motor mount on the transom (instead of using the cutout for the motor as Jerry & Lyly designed). correct?
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 11:01 PM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
I finally got Chiquita, my Venture Newport cutter, in the water and on her mooring so I turned my attention to my 1979 M17 Amorita. The transom hull deck joint was cracked all around and there are several other cracks as well. I attacked the cracks with a grinder and belt sander, trying to bevel the cracks so I could lay in new fiberglass and epoxy. I ground through lots of filler/puitty and other evidence that the transom had been repaired before. I think it may have been in an accident of some sort. There is a 3/4" plywood core between the inner and outer transom skins. It looks like they attempted to bond the plywood in place but it had come loose. The plywood goes completely across the transom and extends from the top to just below the middle rudder gudgeon. There is a wide notch in the bottom of the plywood where it goes around the glassed-in gudgeon baqcking board. Anyway, I discovered that the lateral crack in the fiberglass extended all the way across the transom. A bit of tugging and the top half of the fiberglass skin came completely off in my hands.
I plan on removing the 3/4" plywood "core" and replacing it with new plywood or something else recommended by you guys. I'll bond it to the inner fiberglass with thickened epoxy. Then I will glass over the outside of the core and build it up to the original thickness. Does that sound like it will work? Other questions:
The plywood appears to have been added during a previous repair. Was there any type of "core" between the inner and outer transom as built?
The plywood is fairly heavy. What other core material could I use? Balsa, Foam?
Can I re-use the outer fiberglass panel that I had pulled off as part of the repair (for bulk) or should I just go with all new glass cloth, roving, and mat?
Can I mix carbon fiber tape and regular fiberglass cloth in the laminate?
Click on the link in my signature and go to the album "M17 Transom Repair" for pictures. I'll be copying this post to the Trailer Sailers Montgomery forum so I can post some pictures directly.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions and tips.
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
Henry: very very common for the damage you are seeing to be caused by a improperly installed outboard motor bracket, or the outboard was left on the bracket when she was going down the highway. the M17 sails best if you use the cutout for the outboard. much better boat balance. not all outboards will fit in the cutout ... the Suzuki 4HP and 6HP (same motor, just different carb) do work in the cutout. here is an outline on how to fix (your boat is much worse than pictured, but will give you an idea of how to proceed) - http://www.msogphotosite.com/lbgftransom.html (click on the spaces where the pictures should be to see a picture. the www-site isn't working correctly as it uses out-of-date code.) doing alternating layers of fiberglass and carbon fiber is fine as the two materials will not conflict with each other. you really don't need to do carbon fiber, but if it makes you sleep better at night ... -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:03 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep!
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry:
from you photo it looks like your boat has/had a motor mount on the transom (instead of using the cutout for the motor as Jerry & Lyly designed). correct?
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
Thanks for the reply Dave, There aren't any Suzuki dealers or repair shops around here that I know of and I have not yest seen any used ones on Craigslist in the last 6 months. The Evinrudes are the most popular around here. I'd like to try one to see if it fits. Yes, I have looked at Gary O's pictures on the MSOG site as well as all of the others, including your very nice SWEET PEA. I've been trying to educate myself and have studied every picture or commentary I could find. I have been reading the archives of this list starting from the beginning. There is so much information my little brain can't contain it all! Please excuse me if some of my questions are redundant, having already been discussed in the archives. In Gary's transom repair pictures he shows some fiberglass work on the cockpit side of the transom. I'm guessing that is because of overlapping the new fiberglass over the top to secure the hull/deck joint. The pictures aren't clear on this. I would like to avoid having to paint the inside of the cockpit if possible. Is it absolutely necessary to overlap? If so, could I just cover the top of the transom without going down the inside transom face? This is where I was thinking of using carbon fiber tape. Thanks! Henry On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 11:21 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry:
very very common for the damage you are seeing to be caused by a improperly installed outboard motor bracket, or the outboard was left on the bracket when she was going down the highway. the M17 sails best if you use the cutout for the outboard. much better boat balance. not all outboards will fit in the cutout ... the Suzuki 4HP and 6HP (same motor, just different carb) do work in the cutout.
here is an outline on how to fix (your boat is much worse than pictured, but will give you an idea of how to proceed) -
http://www.msogphotosite.com/lbgftransom.html
(click on the spaces where the pictures should be to see a picture. the www-site isn't working correctly as it uses out-of-date code.)
doing alternating layers of fiberglass and carbon fiber is fine as the two materials will not conflict with each other. you really don't need to do carbon fiber, but if it makes you sleep better at night ...
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 10:03 AM, Henry Rodriguez <heinzir@gmail.com> wrote:
Yep!
On Fri, Jul 11, 2014 at 9:30 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
Henry:
from you photo it looks like your boat has/had a motor mount on the transom (instead of using the cutout for the motor as Jerry & Lyly designed). correct?
-- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com
-- Henry https://picasaweb.google.com/heinzir
participants (3)
-
Dave Scobie -
Henry Rodriguez -
Stanley Wheatley