Hi Jerry, My original was a Reg Armstrong sail, very used and had the crispness of a dishrag. It was boltrope for both luff and foot. I had a replacement made by Western Sailmakers in Jordan, Mn. It looked good, but never fit quite right. The luff was always too loose even after cranking on the main halyard and tightening the cunningham. I had them trim the headboard which helped. I had a set of sails made for my now sold M23 by Mack sails out of Stuart, FL. I sent them my main for reference. I was very pleased with their product. E/P sails have been recommended by many M-boat sailors. Harry has given me a quote. Thanks for your input sir. Bones ____________________________________________________________ 1 Simple Trick Removes Lip Lines & Eye Bags in Seconds healthzoneworldwide.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5aafb4e32009b34e263a4st02vuc
My M17 #278 also came to me with a Reggie Armstrong main and matching jib……about an 80% or so. The two of them combined had some magic voodoo that I’ve never been able to duplicate. Like getting her up on plane doing 6 knots plus going to weather in enough wind to have some nice whitecaps…….and heeled over no more than 15 to 20 degrees or so. Magic stuff. Similar performance with the same blown out main with 2 reefs and a 60% storm jib in wind blowing 25 knots plus. Just dancing along. Reggie had his personal demons, but he knew how to build a sail. Or at least he got it right with the one he built for my boat.
On Mar 19, 2018, at 8:01 AM, bownez@juno.com wrote:
Hi Jerry,
My original was a Reg Armstrong sail, very used and had the crispness of a dishrag. It was boltrope for both luff and foot. I had a replacement made by Western Sailmakers in Jordan, Mn. It looked good, but never fit quite right. The luff was always too loose even after cranking on the main halyard and tightening the cunningham. I had them trim the headboard which helped. I had a set of sails made for my now sold M23 by Mack sails out of Stuart, FL. I sent them my main for reference. I was very pleased with their product. E/P sails have been recommended by many M-boat sailors. Harry has given me a quote.
Thanks for your input sir.
Bones ____________________________________________________________ 1 Simple Trick Removes Lip Lines & Eye Bags in Seconds healthzoneworldwide.com http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/5aafb4e32009b34e263a4st02vuc
jib……about an 80%
seems to be small for the M17 working jib ... a sail that size would be in the 'large storm jib' size. the usual working jib for the M17 is about 110%. :: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com> :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:14 AM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
My M17 #278 also came to me with a Reggie Armstrong main and matching jib……about an 80% or so. The two of them combined had some magic voodoo that I’ve never been able to duplicate. Like getting her up on plane doing 6 knots plus going to weather in enough wind to have some nice whitecaps…….and heeled over no more than 15 to 20 degrees or so. Magic stuff. Similar performance with the same blown out main with 2 reefs and a 60% storm jib in wind blowing 25 knots plus. Just dancing along.
Reggie had his personal demons, but he knew how to build a sail. Or at least he got it right with the one he built for my boat.
My #38 came with that same ~80% jib by Reggie Armstrong. It is old and soft and stretched but it still works pretty darn good in strong gusty wind. I also got what I think must be the original 150 genoa by RA. Also old but still works really well in light air. I don't know what I have for the original main, I'll take a look sometime - maybe it is also an original RA main... cheers, John On 03/19/2018 05:29 AM, Dave Scobie wrote:
jib……about an 80%
seems to be small for the M17 working jib ... a sail that size would be in the 'large storm jib' size. the usual working jib for the M17 is about 110%.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com> :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:14 AM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
My M17 #278 also came to me with a Reggie Armstrong main and matching jib……about an 80% or so. The two of them combined had some magic voodoo that I’ve never been able to duplicate. Like getting her up on plane doing 6 knots plus going to weather in enough wind to have some nice whitecaps…….and heeled over no more than 15 to 20 degrees or so. Magic stuff. Similar performance with the same blown out main with 2 reefs and a 60% storm jib in wind blowing 25 knots plus. Just dancing along.
Reggie had his personal demons, but he knew how to build a sail. Or at least he got it right with the one he built for my boat.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Yes…..the head of that jib topped out about 2 to 4 feet below masthead……….the clew pretty low to the deck but not as far aft as the mast…..maybe a foot or two forward of the mast and just above the deck. Certainly a different shaped jib than my Ullman 60% storm jib, which is a tall thin blade….or my 110% which goes all the way to the masthead and then some. If not for some substantial mast rake, the luff on the 110% will not tension properly. Moral to the story is the older boats have different specs than the newer ones do. That plus the Reggie Armstrong working jib and main must have been perfectly matched to each other. Once the wind got up to 10 knots plus, that sail combo went to weather far better than the main and 110% I had made by Kern. Or the same main and 150% Genoa made by EP. Far better. BTW, as I recall, the boat also came to me with a McKibbin 155% mylar genny……..a great sail until it delaminated. But it too, like the working jib, was a lower aspect sail than most sails built today. But they really worked on this boat. BTW, I still have the RA sails……blown out as they are. Kept them for their DNA in hopes someday they could be cloned.
On Mar 19, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
jib……about an 80%
seems to be small for the M17 working jib ... a sail that size would be in the 'large storm jib' size. the usual working jib for the M17 is about 110%.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com> :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:14 AM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
My M17 #278 also came to me with a Reggie Armstrong main and matching jib……about an 80% or so. The two of them combined had some magic voodoo that I’ve never been able to duplicate. Like getting her up on plane doing 6 knots plus going to weather in enough wind to have some nice whitecaps…….and heeled over no more than 15 to 20 degrees or so. Magic stuff. Similar performance with the same blown out main with 2 reefs and a 60% storm jib in wind blowing 25 knots plus. Just dancing along.
Reggie had his personal demons, but he knew how to build a sail. Or at least he got it right with the one he built for my boat.
I used to recommend an intermediate jib for buyers in heavy air areas. Sounds like that's what you have. They work really well in 12 or 15 knots and up. Actually, a storm jib is a really useful sail; you don't need heavy air to make it work well. I know that the modern way for racers is a blade, all the way to the masthead, but for normal sailing I far prefer a 3/4 or so sail. I have both an intermediate and a storm for my Sage but haven't used either. Yet. I don't think I've yet reefed it, but do rig reefing lines just in case. -----Original Message----- From: Howard Audsley Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 1:13 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mainsail Yes…..the head of that jib topped out about 2 to 4 feet below masthead……….the clew pretty low to the deck but not as far aft as the mast…..maybe a foot or two forward of the mast and just above the deck. Certainly a different shaped jib than my Ullman 60% storm jib, which is a tall thin blade….or my 110% which goes all the way to the masthead and then some. If not for some substantial mast rake, the luff on the 110% will not tension properly. Moral to the story is the older boats have different specs than the newer ones do. That plus the Reggie Armstrong working jib and main must have been perfectly matched to each other. Once the wind got up to 10 knots plus, that sail combo went to weather far better than the main and 110% I had made by Kern. Or the same main and 150% Genoa made by EP. Far better. BTW, as I recall, the boat also came to me with a McKibbin 155% mylar genny……..a great sail until it delaminated. But it too, like the working jib, was a lower aspect sail than most sails built today. But they really worked on this boat. BTW, I still have the RA sails……blown out as they are. Kept them for their DNA in hopes someday they could be cloned.
On Mar 19, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
jib……about an 80%
seems to be small for the M17 working jib ... a sail that size would be in the 'large storm jib' size. the usual working jib for the M17 is about 110%.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com> :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:14 AM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
My M17 #278 also came to me with a Reggie Armstrong main and matching jib……about an 80% or so. The two of them combined had some magic voodoo that I’ve never been able to duplicate. Like getting her up on plane doing 6 knots plus going to weather in enough wind to have some nice whitecaps…….and heeled over no more than 15 to 20 degrees or so. Magic stuff. Similar performance with the same blown out main with 2 reefs and a 60% storm jib in wind blowing 25 knots plus. Just dancing along.
Reggie had his personal demons, but he knew how to build a sail. Or at least he got it right with the one he built for my boat.
Sounds like mine too. I can corroborate Jerry's take on this, from using the 80% Reggie Armstrong jib that came with my boat in consistent 12-15, on a lake where there are also consistently gusts above that. I put the first small reef in my main ("flattening reef" someone said it was) and use the 80% and though it is old and tired, it still works well enough for that situation. The few times I've put the first full reef in the main, same jib, it also works well. If my trim is off, I get too much heeling. But when I occasionally get the trim just right, she really sings. cheers, John On 03/19/2018 11:00 AM, jerry@jerrymontgomery.org wrote:
I used to recommend an intermediate jib for buyers in heavy air areas. Sounds like that's what you have. They work really well in 12 or 15 knots and up. Actually, a storm jib is a really useful sail; you don't need heavy air to make it work well. I know that the modern way for racers is a blade, all the way to the masthead, but for normal sailing I far prefer a 3/4 or so sail. I have both an intermediate and a storm for my Sage but haven't used either. Yet. I don't think I've yet reefed it, but do rig reefing lines just in case.
-----Original Message----- From: Howard Audsley Sent: Monday, March 19, 2018 1:13 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Mainsail
Yes…..the head of that jib topped out about 2 to 4 feet below masthead……….the clew pretty low to the deck but not as far aft as the mast…..maybe a foot or two forward of the mast and just above the deck. Certainly a different shaped jib than my Ullman 60% storm jib, which is a tall thin blade….or my 110% which goes all the way to the masthead and then some. If not for some substantial mast rake, the luff on the 110% will not tension properly. Moral to the story is the older boats have different specs than the newer ones do.
That plus the Reggie Armstrong working jib and main must have been perfectly matched to each other. Once the wind got up to 10 knots plus, that sail combo went to weather far better than the main and 110% I had made by Kern. Or the same main and 150% Genoa made by EP. Far better.
BTW, as I recall, the boat also came to me with a McKibbin 155% mylar genny……..a great sail until it delaminated. But it too, like the working jib, was a lower aspect sail than most sails built today. But they really worked on this boat.
BTW, I still have the RA sails……blown out as they are. Kept them for their DNA in hopes someday they could be cloned.
On Mar 19, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
jib……about an 80%
seems to be small for the M17 working jib ... a sail that size would be in the 'large storm jib' size. the usual working jib for the M17 is about 110%.
:: Dave Scobie :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - https://m17-375.com/ <http://www.m17-375.webs.com> :: Truck camper - https://truckpopupcamper.wordpress.com/ :: Ramblings - https://scoobsramblings.wordpress.com/ :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred
On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 7:14 AM, Howard Audsley <haudsley@tranquility.net> wrote:
My M17 #278 also came to me with a Reggie Armstrong main and matching jib……about an 80% or so. The two of them combined had some magic voodoo that I’ve never been able to duplicate. Like getting her up on plane doing 6 knots plus going to weather in enough wind to have some nice whitecaps…….and heeled over no more than 15 to 20 degrees or so. Magic stuff. Similar performance with the same blown out main with 2 reefs and a 60% storm jib in wind blowing 25 knots plus. Just dancing along.
Reggie had his personal demons, but he knew how to build a sail. Or at least he got it right with the one he built for my boat.
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (5)
-
bownez＠juno.com -
Dave Scobie -
Howard Audsley -
jerry＠jerrymontgomery.org -
John Schinnerer