+ to positive side of battery, - to negative side of battery. This will power unit AND monitor battery  voltage.+load to positive side of battery - load goes to positive side of device being powered. (AMP/Current meters are typically wired "in line" or "in series" of device being monitored) The negative, or - side of the device being monitored still goes to the negative side of the battery. If it's easier, imagine an arrow on the meter that points from +load to -load, it refers to the direction of current flow from positive to negative.     So, in reality, the meter could be connected "+load" on the negative side of the device being monitored and -load of the meter  on the negative battery terminal and it would still work fine. This is often done when no/low voltage is desired on the meter current monitor lines. Just be aware the meter is designed to be "in line" with positive potential on the + load side and lower, or negative potential on the -load side.    If you want to monitor the entire boats' power draw then all devices will have to be connected to the load side of meter. But it had better not exceed 20 amps, as that is the maximum capacity of the meter. Typically the current side of the meter will be fused, so it is replaceable if it blows.    Most meters will register negative current, if a - shows up in front of the reading then it is reversed.Thankfully, since the advent of solar panels, most meters will now dynamically read current in both directions, for charge and discharge cycles, and not be damaged.Yeah, I did a bit of this in my day....... On Saturday, February 20, 2016 5:49 AM, John Tyner <tynerjr@md.metrocast.net> wrote: Looks to me (from the pictures on the E-bay page) like it would fit between your battery and the panel and bus. In other words, the battery + would connect to the ammeter +, then the + Load would lead to where you now have the panel "fed from the positive of the battery". And likewise on the negative side. But I was never very good with electricity; Keith Martin will know, for sure. ----- John Tyner M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee" On 2/20/2016 4:11 AM, Jazzy wrote:

Hi all, A cheapie little Volt/Ammeter just showed up in the mail.  Im looking at it and not quite getting how it gets hooked up.  It has 4 wires and a horrible little diagram that looks something like this:

-  ---------------------------- + ---------------------------- - Load --------------------- +Load ---------------------

My setup is probably much like everyone elses, I have the 8 switch panel fed from the positive of the battery, and also a little negative bus bar for all the negative wires connected to the negative of the battery

Im thinking the simple +  and  - wires just go to the battery to power the unit.  The other two wires that go to the "Load" is where Im losing it...

Do I put the +Load on the last position of the switch panel and the - Load wire on the bus? I dunno...Not sure where it would pick up the "load". Hellllp! Thank you all in advance, Im sure I'll have an answer shortly from one of you super geniuses!

Here's the item .. http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Battery-6-5-100V-20A-LCD-Voltage-Current-KWh-Watt...

-= Jazzy

Ditto that... Note that the diagram says "built in shunt" - this means that the device itself contains a thingamajig doohickey (sorry for all the technical terms :-) called a "shunt" that all DC power passes through on its way to the loads (and is what enables the measurement of the current). So just connect as the pictures show, battery + and - to battery, and then you need to substitute your panel + and busbar - for the + and - of the big wire-wound resistor DC load shown in the pictures. Absolutely fuse it, between battery + and meter +. A regular ATO or Mini auto fuse inline holder will do. As someone already said, fuses are to prevent fires mainly, protect the wiring from getting hot and/or melting. Also, if you're in saltwater environment mostly, don't expect this cheap of a meter to last long. cheers, John S. On 02/20/2016 09:00 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

...

On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Mitch Carnes <mitch_carnes@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

+ to positive side of battery, - to negative side of battery. This will power unit AND monitor battery voltage.+load to positive side of battery - load goes to positive side of device being powered. (AMP/Current meters are typically wired "in line" or "in series" of device being monitored) The negative, or - side of the device being monitored still goes to the negative side of the battery.

I don’t think this is right. Look at the photos in the eBay listing and you can see they have hooked up:

1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect.

It might not hurt to put an inline 20A fuse in the + line between battery and meter. Just in case.

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Late to the party but I concur with Mitch and John's last post... *1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect.* Attached I think is the picture John was talking about showing a practical wiring connection for the device in lab bench setting. I would definitely put an inline fuse on this, and given the low cost of the device if it were me I would limit the fuse to 10A .. Given the low cost of the device, if you think you need more than 10A on the boat I would have a hard look at the device to make sure it could safely sustain the higher currents. Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* On 20 February 2016 at 11:46, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

Ditto that...

Note that the diagram says "built in shunt" - this means that the device itself contains a thingamajig doohickey (sorry for all the technical terms :-) called a "shunt" that all DC power passes through on its way to the loads (and is what enables the measurement of the current).

So just connect as the pictures show, battery + and - to battery, and then you need to substitute your panel + and busbar - for the + and - of the big wire-wound resistor DC load shown in the pictures.

Absolutely fuse it, between battery + and meter +. A regular ATO or Mini auto fuse inline holder will do. As someone already said, fuses are to prevent fires mainly, protect the wiring from getting hot and/or melting.

Also, if you're in saltwater environment mostly, don't expect this cheap of a meter to last long.

cheers, John S.

On 02/20/2016 09:00 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

...

On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Mitch Carnes <mitch_carnes@sbcglobal.net>

...

wrote:

+ to positive side of battery, - to negative side of battery. This will power unit AND monitor battery voltage.+load to positive side of battery - load goes to positive side of device being powered. (AMP/Current meters are typically wired "in line" or "in series" of device being monitored) The negative, or - side of the device being monitored still goes to the negative side of the battery.

I don’t think this is right. Look at the photos in the eBay listing and you can see they have hooked up:

1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect.

It might not hurt to put an inline 20A fuse in the + line between battery and meter. Just in case.

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Yup sounds like you are okay depending on what you plug into the cigarette lighter plug... I would be surprised if the gps plotter and a couple of usb devices combined exceeded 3-4 A, the lighter plug however is often used to power devices that draw a little more current, but 6-7 amps of a lighter plug is a pretty good load.. The good think is your meter will tell you..... The worst that can happen if it's properly fused is it blows with too large a load drawn from the lighter plug... Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* On 20 February 2016 at 12:21, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all, Keith, never too late for a party! With led lighting and an older small grayscale gps/plotter, 1 cigarette lighter plug, one dual usb plug I'm thinking I can't really draw enough to cause an issue. Is this a correct assumption? I don't have official specs on what the items draw, just seems minimal to me even with everything on On Feb 20, 2016 12:16 PM, "Keith R. Martin" < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Late to the party but I concur with Mitch and John's last post...

*1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect.*

Attached I think is the picture John was talking about showing a practical wiring connection for the device in lab bench setting.

I would definitely put an inline fuse on this, and given the low cost of the device if it were me I would limit the fuse to 10A .. Given the low cost of the device, if you think you need more than 10A on the boat I would have a hard look at the device to make sure it could safely sustain the higher currents.

Keith

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 11:46, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

Ditto that...

Note that the diagram says "built in shunt" - this means that the device itself contains a thingamajig doohickey (sorry for all the technical terms :-) called a "shunt" that all DC power passes through on its way to the loads (and is what enables the measurement of the current).

So just connect as the pictures show, battery + and - to battery, and then you need to substitute your panel + and busbar - for the + and - of the big wire-wound resistor DC load shown in the pictures.

Absolutely fuse it, between battery + and meter +. A regular ATO or Mini auto fuse inline holder will do. As someone already said, fuses are to prevent fires mainly, protect the wiring from getting hot and/or melting.

Also, if you're in saltwater environment mostly, don't expect this cheap of a meter to last long.

cheers, John S.

On 02/20/2016 09:00 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

...

On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Mitch Carnes <mitch_carnes@sbcglobal.net

...

...

...

wrote:

+ to positive side of battery, - to negative side of battery. This will power unit AND monitor battery voltage.+load to positive side of battery - load goes to positive side of device being powered. (AMP/Current meters are typically wired "in line" or "in series" of device being monitored) The negative, or - side of the device being monitored still goes to the negative side of the battery.

I don’t think this is right. Look at the photos in the eBay listing and you can see they have hooked up:

1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect.

It might not hurt to put an inline 20A fuse in the + line between battery and meter. Just in case.

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

In general, as someone posted, the fusing should be to protect the wiring, unless it's a fuse for one specific device that has a lower current capacity than the wire that brings it power. There are well documented standards to follow, just look up charts like this: http://www.cerrowire.com/ampacity-charts Note it only goes down to 14 AWG and you may have some 16 or even 18 AWG. If you want to get into techie details something like this will boggle your mind (scroll down for a more geeky table): http://www.powerstream.com/Wire_Size.htm ...at the bottom of the page is even a voltage drop calculator. Speaking of which, power loss tables are also useful for low voltage DC systems like in our boats. For stuff drawing only a couple amps or less, not a big deal. But if you have a heavy draw far from your battery, you can start losing significant amounts of power in wire loss if your wire is too small (and if it's way too small you get risk of enough heat to melt something or start a fire). Here's some typical charts for different voltages, showing max wire length for 5% or less wire loss: http://www.solar-electric.com/wire-loss-tables.html The last table, for 12V DC, indicates that if you have a 6 amp draw, the longest run under 5% loss with 14AWG wire ("14 gauge") is 14 ft.; with 12AWG you can go 22 ft. with no more than 5% loss, and so on. A good way to find info on low voltage DC wiring, if not marine specific sites, is anything to do with the DC aspects of off-grid solar power systems. cheers, John S. On 02/20/2016 12:36 PM, Jazzy wrote:

I'm thinking the biggest things that may ever go in the lighter plug is a little inverter or a pump to blow up an inflatable. Maybe I should fuse that switch a little higher? On Feb 20, 2016 12:34 PM, "Keith R. Martin" <keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Yup sounds like you are okay depending on what you plug into the cigarette lighter plug...

I would be surprised if the gps plotter and a couple of usb devices combined exceeded 3-4 A, the lighter plug however is often used to power devices that draw a little more current, but 6-7 amps of a lighter plug is a pretty good load..

The good think is your meter will tell you..... The worst that can happen if it's properly fused is it blows with too large a load drawn from the lighter plug...

Keith

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 12:21, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi all, Keith, never too late for a party! With led lighting and an older small grayscale gps/plotter, 1 cigarette lighter plug, one dual usb plug I'm thinking I can't really draw enough to cause an issue. Is this a correct assumption? I don't have official specs on what the items draw, just seems minimal to me even with everything on On Feb 20, 2016 12:16 PM, "Keith R. Martin" < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Late to the party but I concur with Mitch and John's last post...

*1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect.*

Attached I think is the picture John was talking about showing a practical wiring connection for the device in lab bench setting.

I would definitely put an inline fuse on this, and given the low cost of the device if it were me I would limit the fuse to 10A .. Given the low cost of the device, if you think you need more than 10A on the boat I would have a hard look at the device to make sure it could safely sustain the higher currents.

Keith

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 11:46, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

Ditto that...

Note that the diagram says "built in shunt" - this means that the device itself contains a thingamajig doohickey (sorry for all the technical terms :-) called a "shunt" that all DC power passes through on its way to the loads (and is what enables the measurement of the current).

So just connect as the pictures show, battery + and - to battery, and then you need to substitute your panel + and busbar - for the + and - of the big wire-wound resistor DC load shown in the pictures.

Absolutely fuse it, between battery + and meter +. A regular ATO or Mini auto fuse inline holder will do. As someone already said, fuses are to prevent fires mainly, protect the wiring from getting hot and/or melting.

Also, if you're in saltwater environment mostly, don't expect this cheap of a meter to last long.

cheers, John S.

On 02/20/2016 09:00 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

...

On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Mitch Carnes <

mitch_carnes@sbcglobal.net

...

...

> wrote: > > + to positive side of battery, - to negative side of battery. This > will power unit AND monitor battery voltage.+load to positive side of > battery - load goes to positive side of device being powered. (AMP/Current > meters are typically wired "in line" or "in series" of device being > monitored) The negative, or - side of the device being monitored still goes > to the negative side of the battery. >

I don’t think this is right. Look at the photos in the eBay listing and you can see they have hooked up:

1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect.

It might not hurt to put an inline 20A fuse in the + line between battery and meter. Just in case.

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

So, talk to me about fuses on the switches versus the one on the positive wire... Jazz On Feb 20, 2016 1:54 PM, "Keith R. Martin" <keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

My experience with low cost power electronics is that the maximum marketing ratings rarely if ever hold up under sustained maximum loads, and when they fail they often don't do so in a safe manner hence my suggestion to fuse it at a level lower than the max rating.

If you think your going to use it to monitor loads drawn by an inverter it would be have to be one of the smaller ones... As an example 150Watt inverter delivering full load to the AC is going to draw on the order of about 14-16 Amps, which is close to the power monitor's max rating... That said if charging a typical laptop (70W) via the inverter would probably draw 6-7 Amps DC well within range, similarly an 12V air pumps I have seen are on the order of 4-7 amps, so both of those are within the range ...

All that said if it were me I would want some head room between the the fuse rating and the units max rating given it's cost base..

The great thing is your power monitor will tell you whats happening and frankly help you settle in on a fuse rating that works for you, a simple check would be to check how warm the power unit gets under a sustained load...

Messing with boats... Tons of fun...

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 12:36, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I'm thinking the biggest things that may ever go in the lighter plug is a little inverter or a pump to blow up an inflatable. Maybe I should fuse that switch a little higher? On Feb 20, 2016 12:34 PM, "Keith R. Martin" < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Yup sounds like you are okay depending on what you plug into the cigarette lighter plug...

I would be surprised if the gps plotter and a couple of usb devices combined exceeded 3-4 A, the lighter plug however is often used to power devices that draw a little more current, but 6-7 amps of a lighter plug is a pretty good load..

The good think is your meter will tell you..... The worst that can happen if it's properly fused is it blows with too large a load drawn from the lighter plug...

Keith

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 12:21, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi all, Keith, never too late for a party! With led lighting and an older small grayscale gps/plotter, 1 cigarette lighter plug, one dual usb plug I'm thinking I can't really draw enough to cause an issue. Is this a correct assumption? I don't have official specs on what the items draw, just seems minimal to me even with everything on On Feb 20, 2016 12:16 PM, "Keith R. Martin" < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Late to the party but I concur with Mitch and John's last post...

*1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect.*

Attached I think is the picture John was talking about showing a practical wiring connection for the device in lab bench setting.

I would definitely put an inline fuse on this, and given the low cost of the device if it were me I would limit the fuse to 10A .. Given the low cost of the device, if you think you need more than 10A on the boat I would have a hard look at the device to make sure it could safely sustain the higher currents.

Keith

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 11:46, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net

...

...

wrote:

...

...

Ditto that...

Note that the diagram says "built in shunt" - this means that the

device

...

...

itself contains a thingamajig doohickey (sorry for all the technical terms :-) called a "shunt" that all DC power passes through on its way to the loads (and is what enables the measurement of the current).

So just connect as the pictures show, battery + and - to battery, and then you need to substitute your panel + and busbar - for the + and - of the big wire-wound resistor DC load shown in the pictures.

Absolutely fuse it, between battery + and meter +. A regular ATO or Mini auto fuse inline holder will do. As someone already said, fuses are to prevent fires mainly, protect the wiring from getting hot and/or melting.

Also, if you're in saltwater environment mostly, don't expect this cheap of a meter to last long.

cheers, John S.

On 02/20/2016 09:00 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

> > On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Mitch Carnes < mitch_carnes@sbcglobal.net

...

>> wrote: >> >> + to positive side of battery, - to negative side of battery. This >> will power unit AND monitor battery voltage.+load to positive side of >> battery - load goes to positive side of device being powered. (AMP/Current >> meters are typically wired "in line" or "in series" of device being >> monitored) The negative, or - side of the device being monitored still goes >> to the negative side of the battery. >> > > I don’t think this is right. Look at the photos in the eBay listing and > you can see they have hooked up: > > 1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from > everything else. > 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect. > > It might not hurt to put an inline 20A fuse in the + line between battery > and meter. Just in case. > > -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Yes but the fuses all vary...should I put 10s on them all? On Feb 20, 2016 2:33 PM, "John Schinnerer" <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

Isn't your power panel one with breakers or fuses already included for each circuit? In that case each circuit is covered, for wire safety anyhow.

cheers, John S.

On 02/20/2016 01:56 PM, Jazzy wrote:

...

So, talk to me about fuses on the switches versus the one on the positive wire...

Jazz On Feb 20, 2016 1:54 PM, "Keith R. Martin" < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

My experience with low cost power electronics is that the maximum

...

marketing ratings rarely if ever hold up under sustained maximum loads, and when they fail they often don't do so in a safe manner hence my suggestion to fuse it at a level lower than the max rating.

If you think your going to use it to monitor loads drawn by an inverter it would be have to be one of the smaller ones... As an example 150Watt inverter delivering full load to the AC is going to draw on the order of about 14-16 Amps, which is close to the power monitor's max rating... That said if charging a typical laptop (70W) via the inverter would probably draw 6-7 Amps DC well within range, similarly an 12V air pumps I have seen are on the order of 4-7 amps, so both of those are within the range ...

All that said if it were me I would want some head room between the the fuse rating and the units max rating given it's cost base..

The great thing is your power monitor will tell you whats happening and frankly help you settle in on a fuse rating that works for you, a simple check would be to check how warm the power unit gets under a sustained load...

Messing with boats... Tons of fun...

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 12:36, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm thinking the biggest things that may ever go in the lighter plug is a

...

little inverter or a pump to blow up an inflatable. Maybe I should fuse that switch a little higher? On Feb 20, 2016 12:34 PM, "Keith R. Martin" < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

Yup sounds like you are okay depending on what you plug into the

...

cigarette

...

lighter plug...

I would be surprised if the gps plotter and a couple of usb devices combined exceeded 3-4 A, the lighter plug however is often used to

power

...

devices that draw a little more current, but 6-7 amps of a lighter plug

...

is

...

a pretty good load..

The good think is your meter will tell you..... The worst that can

happen

...

if it's properly fused is it blows with too large a load drawn from the

...

lighter plug...

Keith

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 12:21, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

...

Keith, never too late for a party! With led lighting and an older

small

...

grayscale gps/plotter, 1 cigarette lighter plug, one dual usb plug

...

...

I'm

...

thinking I can't really draw enough to cause an issue. Is this a

...

...

correct

...

assumption? I don't have official specs on what the items draw, just

...

seems

...

minimal to me even with everything on On Feb 20, 2016 12:16 PM, "Keith R. Martin" < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

Late to the party but I concur with Mitch and John's last post... > > > *1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery > from

...

everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery

...

> used

...

to

> connect.* > > Attached I think is the picture John was talking about showing a > practical

> wiring connection for the device in lab bench setting. > > I would definitely put an inline fuse on this, and given the low > cost

...

of

...

...

the device if it were me I would limit the fuse to 10A .. > Given the low cost of the device, if you think you need more than > 10A

...

on

...

...

the boat I would have a hard look at the device to make sure it > could

...

safely sustain the higher currents.

...

...

> > Keith > > *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* > > *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* > > > > On 20 February 2016 at 11:46, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net >

wrote:

...

> > Ditto that... >> >> Note that the diagram says "built in shunt" - this means that the >> > device

> itself contains a thingamajig doohickey (sorry for all the >> > technical

...

terms

...

> >> :-) called a "shunt" that all DC power passes through on its way >> > to

...

the

...

...

loads (and is what enables the measurement of the current). >> >> So just connect as the pictures show, battery + and - to battery, >> > and

...

then

...

> >> you need to substitute your panel + and busbar - for the + and - >> > of

...

the

...

...

big > >> wire-wound resistor DC load shown in the pictures. >> >> Absolutely fuse it, between battery + and meter +. A regular ATO >> > or

...

Mini

...

...

> auto fuse inline holder will do. As someone already said, fuses >> > are

...

to

...

...

prevent fires mainly, protect the wiring from getting hot and/or >> > melting.

> >> Also, if you're in saltwater environment mostly, don't expect >> > this

...

cheap

...

...

> of a meter to last long. >> >> cheers, >> John S. >> >> On 02/20/2016 09:00 AM, David Rifkind wrote: >> >> >>> On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Mitch Carnes < >>> >> mitch_carnes@sbcglobal.net

...

> wrote: >>>> >>>> + to positive side of battery, - to negative side of >>>> >>> battery.

...

This

...

> will power unit AND monitor battery voltage.+load to positive >>>> >>> side

...

of

...

> battery - load goes to positive side of device being powered. >>>> >>> (AMP/Current > >> meters are typically wired "in line" or "in series" of device >>>> >>> being

...

monitored) The negative, or - side of the device being

...

>>>> >>> monitored

...

still

...

...

> goes > >> to the negative side of the battery. >>>> >>>> >>> I don’t think this is right. Look at the photos in the eBay >>> >> listing

...

and

...

> you can see they have hooked up: >>> >>> 1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery >>> >> from

...

everything else. >>> 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to >>> >> connect.

...

...

>>> It might not hurt to put an inline 20A fuse in the + line >>> >> between

...

battery

...

...

> >> and meter. Just in case. >>> >>> >>> -- >> John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design >> -------------------------------------------- >> - Eco-Living - >> Whole Systems Design Services >> People - Place - Learning - Integration >> john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 >> http://eco-living.net >> http://sociocracyconsulting.com >> >> >> >

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design

---

- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Typical value of individual circuit fuses that come by default in new Marine DC circuit panels when they are sold is often 15 or 20 Amps... I have seen much smaller values, ie 5-10 amp on boats like ours... In the end the reason I suggested a smaller value for the inline fuse for your power monitor is that given it's function and low cost it has the distinct possibility of having a practicable average power handling capacity which is well below the marketing "specification"..... ​ The important thing is to fuse it... If it were me I would fuse it below it's maximum rating at least to start with, in this case perhaps 15 amps or so for the power monitor. If you do this you will then need something corresponding less for the "downstream" fuses so if you go with 15 in the inline power monitor fuse , you could drop 10 Amp fuses into the individual circuits.. The only circuit that gets close to that from you description is when you plan to use your inverter.. Practically speaking it's going to be hard to collect/generate more juice than that on our little boats unless you add an shore power input for use when docking..... Keith *Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.* *Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353* On 20 February 2016 at 13:56, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

So, talk to me about fuses on the switches versus the one on the positive wire...

Jazz On Feb 20, 2016 1:54 PM, "Keith R. Martin" <keith.richard.martin@gmail.com

...

wrote:

...

My experience with low cost power electronics is that the maximum marketing ratings rarely if ever hold up under sustained maximum loads, and when they fail they often don't do so in a safe manner hence my suggestion to fuse it at a level lower than the max rating.

If you think your going to use it to monitor loads drawn by an inverter it would be have to be one of the smaller ones... As an example 150Watt inverter delivering full load to the AC is going to draw on the order of about 14-16 Amps, which is close to the power monitor's max rating... That said if charging a typical laptop (70W) via the inverter would probably draw 6-7 Amps DC well within range, similarly an 12V air pumps I have seen are on the order of 4-7 amps, so both of those are within the range ...

All that said if it were me I would want some head room between the the fuse rating and the units max rating given it's cost base..

The great thing is your power monitor will tell you whats happening and frankly help you settle in on a fuse rating that works for you, a simple check would be to check how warm the power unit gets under a sustained load...

Messing with boats... Tons of fun...

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 12:36, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I'm thinking the biggest things that may ever go in the lighter plug is a little inverter or a pump to blow up an inflatable. Maybe I should fuse that switch a little higher? On Feb 20, 2016 12:34 PM, "Keith R. Martin" < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Yup sounds like you are okay depending on what you plug into the cigarette lighter plug...

I would be surprised if the gps plotter and a couple of usb devices combined exceeded 3-4 A, the lighter plug however is often used to power devices that draw a little more current, but 6-7 amps of a lighter plug is a pretty good load..

The good think is your meter will tell you..... The worst that can happen if it's properly fused is it blows with too large a load drawn from the lighter plug...

Keith

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 12:21, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Hi all, Keith, never too late for a party! With led lighting and an older small grayscale gps/plotter, 1 cigarette lighter plug, one dual usb plug I'm thinking I can't really draw enough to cause an issue. Is this a correct assumption? I don't have official specs on what the items draw, just seems minimal to me even with everything on On Feb 20, 2016 12:16 PM, "Keith R. Martin" < keith.richard.martin@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Late to the party but I concur with Mitch and John's last post...

*1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from everything else. 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect.*

Attached I think is the picture John was talking about showing a practical wiring connection for the device in lab bench setting.

I would definitely put an inline fuse on this, and given the low cost of the device if it were me I would limit the fuse to 10A .. Given the low cost of the device, if you think you need more than 10A on the boat I would have a hard look at the device to make sure it could safely sustain the higher currents.

Keith

*Keith R. Martin, P.Eng.*

*Burnaby, B.C. CanadaSerenity,** M17 Hull #353*

On 20 February 2016 at 11:46, John Schinnerer < john@eco-living.net

...

...

wrote:

...

> Ditto that... > > Note that the diagram says "built in shunt" - this means that

the device

...

> itself contains a thingamajig doohickey (sorry for all the technical terms > :-) called a "shunt" that all DC power passes through on its way to the > loads (and is what enables the measurement of the current). > > So just connect as the pictures show, battery + and - to battery, and then > you need to substitute your panel + and busbar - for the + and

...

of

...

...

the

...

...

big > wire-wound resistor DC load shown in the pictures. > > Absolutely fuse it, between battery + and meter +. A regular ATO or Mini > auto fuse inline holder will do. As someone already said, fuses are to > prevent fires mainly, protect the wiring from getting hot and/or melting. > > Also, if you're in saltwater environment mostly, don't expect this cheap > of a meter to last long. > > cheers, > John S. > > On 02/20/2016 09:00 AM, David Rifkind wrote: > >> >> On Feb 20, 2016, at 9:24 AM, Mitch Carnes < mitch_carnes@sbcglobal.net

>>> wrote: >>> >>> + to positive side of battery, - to negative side of battery. This >>> will power unit AND monitor battery voltage.+load to positive side of >>> battery - load goes to positive side of device being powered. (AMP/Current >>> meters are typically wired "in line" or "in series" of device being >>> monitored) The negative, or - side of the device being monitored still goes >>> to the negative side of the battery. >>> >> >> I don’t think this is right. Look at the photos in the eBay listing and >> you can see they have hooked up: >> >> 1. Power supply (battery) to “+” and “-“. Disconnect the battery from >> everything else. >> 2. Connect “+ load” and “- load” where the battery used to connect. >> >> It might not hurt to put an inline 20A fuse in the + line between battery >> and meter. Just in case. >> >> > -- > John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design > -------------------------------------------- > - Eco-Living - > Whole Systems Design Services > People - Place - Learning - Integration > john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 > http://eco-living.net > http://sociocracyconsulting.com > >

Ooh master switch!! I forgot that, but I'll get one on and 10 amp fuses for switches, and a 15 amp for the positive line. You guys have me all squared away. Thank you for enlightening with baby words :) That's what I needed. Hard to believe I fly a jet but can't wire in a 12 dollar box..hahahaha. I was misunderstanding how it worked causing darkness in the mind. Jazz On Feb 20, 2016 5:37 PM, "David Rifkind" <drifkind@acm.org> wrote:

...

On Feb 20, 2016, at 2:56 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

So, talk to me about fuses on the switches versus the one on the positive wire…

The reason you’d put a fuse before the meter is that the meter itself could fail. If it turns into a crowbar (this is a technical term) it’s shorting right across the battery. A fuse holder there is also a handy battery disconnect if you didn’t put in a master switch.

I do, when I'm not shorting out El Nino! Hahaha Jazz On Feb 21, 2016 7:30 AM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

Aaaa. you don't happen to fly commercial jets, do you ;-}

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On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 7:46 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ooh master switch!! I forgot that, but I'll get one on and 10 amp fuses for switches, and a 15 amp for the positive line. You guys have me all squared away. Thank you for enlightening with baby words :) That's what I needed. Hard to believe I fly a jet but can't wire in a 12 dollar box..hahahaha. I was misunderstanding how it worked causing darkness in the mind.

Jazz On Feb 20, 2016 5:37 PM, "David Rifkind" <drifkind@acm.org> wrote:

...

...

On Feb 20, 2016, at 2:56 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

So, talk to me about fuses on the switches versus the one on the

positive

...

...

wire…

The reason you’d put a fuse before the meter is that the meter itself could fail. If it turns into a crowbar (this is a technical term) it’s shorting right across the battery. A fuse holder there is also a handy battery disconnect if you didn’t put in a master switch.

Let there be light! Whooot! Clean up wires tomorrow and that project is done. All fused up like you guys suggested. It draws 1.03 amps with all the lights and the gps/plotter on. I wonder how much the little meter draws? I'll leave it on and see tomorrow, Batts at 12.7 volts now. And now we have time for a toast! https://www.dropbox.com/s/0j3b8jb6ue29c32/20160221_180942.jpg?dl=0 Jazz On Feb 21, 2016 4:47 PM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Thank you guys! First try...all good. GPS on...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnf7vklz2b18aod/20160221_163425.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 21, 2016 10:36 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I do, when I'm not shorting out El Nino! Hahaha

Jazz On Feb 21, 2016 7:30 AM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Aaaa. you don't happen to fly commercial jets, do you ;-}

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 7:46 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ooh master switch!! I forgot that, but I'll get one on and 10 amp fuses for switches, and a 15 amp for the positive line. You guys have me all squared away. Thank you for enlightening with baby words :) That's what I needed. Hard to believe I fly a jet but can't wire in a 12 dollar box..hahahaha. I was misunderstanding how it worked causing darkness in the mind.

Jazz On Feb 20, 2016 5:37 PM, "David Rifkind" <drifkind@acm.org> wrote:

...

...

On Feb 20, 2016, at 2:56 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

So, talk to me about fuses on the switches versus the one on the

positive

...

...

wire…

The reason you’d put a fuse before the meter is that the meter itself could fail. If it turns into a crowbar (this is a technical term) it’s shorting right across the battery. A fuse holder there is also a handy battery disconnect if you didn’t put in a master switch.

Excellent! It's always nice to wrap up a project on the boat... Keith R. Martin, P.Eng. Burnaby, BC, Canada Serenity M17, Hull #353 On Feb 21, 2016 6:38 PM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Let there be light! Whooot! Clean up wires tomorrow and that project is done. All fused up like you guys suggested.

It draws 1.03 amps with all the lights and the gps/plotter on. I wonder how much the little meter draws? I'll leave it on and see tomorrow, Batts at 12.7 volts now.

And now we have time for a toast!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0j3b8jb6ue29c32/20160221_180942.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 21, 2016 4:47 PM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Thank you guys! First try...all good. GPS on...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jnf7vklz2b18aod/20160221_163425.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 21, 2016 10:36 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I do, when I'm not shorting out El Nino! Hahaha

Jazz On Feb 21, 2016 7:30 AM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Aaaa. you don't happen to fly commercial jets, do you ;-}

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 7:46 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ooh master switch!! I forgot that, but I'll get one on and 10 amp fuses for switches, and a 15 amp for the positive line. You guys have me all squared away. Thank you for enlightening with baby words :) That's what I needed. Hard to believe I fly a jet but can't wire in a 12 dollar box..hahahaha. I was misunderstanding how it worked causing darkness in the mind.

Jazz On Feb 20, 2016 5:37 PM, "David Rifkind" <drifkind@acm.org> wrote:

...

> On Feb 20, 2016, at 2:56 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: > > So, talk to me about fuses on the switches versus the one on the

positive

...

> wire…

The reason you’d put a fuse before the meter is that the meter itself could fail. If it turns into a crowbar (this is a technical term) it’s shorting right across the battery. A fuse holder there is also a handy battery disconnect if you didn’t put in a master switch.

On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

And now we have time for a toast!

You have a toaster? What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric system is coming up fast on my list.

Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger is working on this crap cloudy day. Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

Hi David,

Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can use.

For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence.

Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive in; park; and go exploring.

Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game rooms / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and Grocery store.

This is where you hit pay dirt.

Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do.

They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food packages for use in their sleeper cabs.

Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never seen at WEST Marine.

Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; it's a sailor's bonanza.

Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it rusts out in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you can buy a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either).

Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back.

Connie

On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

...

And now we have time for a toast!

You have a toaster?

What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric system is coming up fast on my list.

Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system switches, the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet. https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0 Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just trumped making the compass light work. Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Truck stop! Excellent! On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger is working on this crap cloudy day.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

Hi David,

Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can use.

For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence.

Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive in; park; and go exploring.

Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game rooms / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and Grocery store.

This is where you hit pay dirt.

Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do.

They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food packages for use in their sleeper cabs.

Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never seen at WEST Marine.

Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; it's a sailor's bonanza.

Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it rusts out in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you can buy a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either).

Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back.

Connie

On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

...

And now we have time for a toast!

You have a toaster?

What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric system is coming up fast on my list.

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over :( I keep seeing more..and more... https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0 Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see?

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system switches, the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0

Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just trumped making the compass light work.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Truck stop! Excellent! On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger is working on this crap cloudy day.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

Hi David,

Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can use.

For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence.

Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive in; park; and go exploring.

Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game rooms / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and Grocery store.

This is where you hit pay dirt.

Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do.

They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food packages for use in their sleeper cabs.

Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never seen at WEST Marine.

Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; it's a sailor's bonanza.

Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it rusts out in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you can buy a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either).

Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back.

Connie

On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

> > And now we have time for a toast! > You have a toaster?

What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric system is coming up fast on my list.

On 2/22/2016 4:44 PM, Jazzy wrote: Jazzy, You can drink medicinal alcohol; but not denatured alcohol. Be careful; the first makes you happy; the second makes you blind. Connie

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over :( I keep seeing more..and more...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see?

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system switches, the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0

Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just trumped making the compass light work.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Truck stop! Excellent! On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger is working on this crap cloudy day.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

Hi David,

Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can use. For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence.

Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive in; park; and go exploring.

Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game rooms / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and Grocery store.

This is where you hit pay dirt.

Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do.

They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food packages for use in their sleeper cabs.

Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never seen at WEST Marine.

Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; it's a sailor's bonanza.

Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it rusts out in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you can buy a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either).

Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back.

Connie

On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >> And now we have time for a toast! >> > You have a toaster? > > What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric system > is coming up fast on my list. >

I was always partial to strained Sterno… - Jim M17 Spirit

On Feb 22, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2/22/2016 4:44 PM, Jazzy wrote:

Jazzy,

You can drink medicinal alcohol; but not denatured alcohol.

Be careful; the first makes you happy; the second makes you blind.

Connie

...

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over :( I keep seeing more..and more...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see?

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system switches, the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0

Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just trumped making the compass light work.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Truck stop! Excellent! On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger is working on this crap cloudy day.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote: > On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote: > > Hi David, > > Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can use. > For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar > requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence. > > Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive in; > park; and go exploring. > > Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game rooms > / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and Grocery > store. > > This is where you hit pay dirt. > > Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do. > > They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food packages > for use in their sleeper cabs. > > Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never seen > at WEST Marine. > > Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; > it's a sailor's bonanza. > > Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it rusts out > in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you can buy > a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either). > > Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back. > > Connie > > > > > On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >>> And now we have time for a toast! >>> >> You have a toaster? >> >> What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric system >> is coming up fast on my list. >> > >

The voice of experience???? This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2/23/2016 5:16 PM, James Poulakis wrote:

Jim,

Strained Sterno makes a lousy Martini.

The color of the Martini is all wrong; and it ruins the taste of the olives.

I'll stick to medicinal alcohol.

Connie

...

I was always partial to strained Sterno…

- Jim M17 Spirit

On Feb 22, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 2/22/2016 4:44 PM, Jazzy wrote:

Jazzy,

You can drink medicinal alcohol; but not denatured alcohol.

Be careful; the first makes you happy; the second makes you blind.

Connie

...

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over :( I keep seeing more..and more...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see?

...

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system

...

switches,

...

the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0

Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just trumped making the compass light work.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Truck stop! Excellent! > On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: > > Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last >> might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger >> > is

...

working on this crap cloudy day. >> >> Jazz >> On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> >> > wrote:

...

On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote: >>> >>> Hi David, >>> >>> Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can >>> >> use.

...

For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar >>> requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence. >>> >>> Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive >>> >> in;

...

park; and go exploring. >>> >>> Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game >>> >> rooms

> / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and >>> >> Grocery

> store. >>> >>> This is where you hit pay dirt. >>> >>> Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do. >>> >>> They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food >>> packages >>> for use in their sleeper cabs. >>> >>> Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never >>> >> seen

...

at WEST Marine. >>> >>> Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; >>> it's a sailor's bonanza. >>> >>> Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it >>> rusts >>> >> out

> in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you >>> >> can buy

> a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either). >>> >>> Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back. >>> >>> Connie >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> And now we have time for a toast! >>>>> >>>>> You have a toaster? >>>> >>>> What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric >>>> >>> system

> is coming up fast on my list. >>>> >>>> >>>

But don't put ethanol in the tank of your outbboard, it will kill the motor, actually it kills the fittings along the internal fuel line. I can advise about a couple of ethanol free gas stations near Olympia and Shelton. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: GARY M HYDE Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 2:13 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Volt/Ammeter connections... Better stick to ethanol. The other stuff will kill you. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary Sent from my iPhone :-)

On Feb 24, 2016, at 5:42 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

The voice of experience????

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:27 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 2/23/2016 5:16 PM, James Poulakis wrote:

Jim,

Strained Sterno makes a lousy Martini.

The color of the Martini is all wrong; and it ruins the taste of the olives.

I'll stick to medicinal alcohol.

Connie

...

I was always partial to strained Sterno…

- Jim M17 Spirit

...

On Feb 22, 2016, at 7:46 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

On 2/22/2016 4:44 PM, Jazzy wrote:

Jazzy,

You can drink medicinal alcohol; but not denatured alcohol.

Be careful; the first makes you happy; the second makes you blind.

Connie

...

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over :( I keep seeing more..and more...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see?

...

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system > switches,

> the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet. > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0 > > Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just > trumped > making the compass light work. > > Jazz > On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: > > Truck stop! Excellent! >> On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up >> last >>> might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar >>> charger >>> >> is

> working on this crap cloudy day. >>> >>> Jazz >>> On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> >>> >> wrote:

> On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang >>>> can >>>> >>> use.

> For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with > similar >>>> requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence. >>>> >>>> Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, >>>> drive >>>> >>> in;

> park; and go exploring. >>>> >>>> Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / >>>> game >>>> >>> rooms > >> / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and >>>> >>> Grocery > >> store. >>>> >>>> This is where you hit pay dirt. >>>> >>>> Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do. >>>> >>>> They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food >>>> packages >>>> for use in their sleeper cabs. >>>> >>>> Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never >>>> >>> seen

> at WEST Marine. >>>> >>>> Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair >>>> curlers; >>>> it's a sailor's bonanza. >>>> >>>> Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it >>>> rusts >>>> >>> out > >> in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you >>>> >>> can buy > >> a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either). >>>> >>>> Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back. >>>> >>>> Connie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> And now we have time for a toast! >>>>>> >>>>>> You have a toaster? >>>>> >>>>> What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric >>>>> >>>> system > >> is coming up fast on my list. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>

thanks, John, great info. You just answered my next three question.😀 Tom B On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:29 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

These will last a year or two in salt water environments. Longer in fresh. Cheap, but also cheap.

Best unit for a pocket cruiser (or any application actually) with ~6A or smaller 12 volt nominal PV panel is the FlexCharge PV7D. Totally sealed, marine environment ready, and the most efficient charging circuit/algorithm that is also the best for your battery life & health.

http://www.flexcharge.com/PV7D.html

I get them from SolarSeller (John Drake III, old school guy, small specialty business, best prices for what he sells, ships USPS):

http://solarseller.com/seelye_ses_flexcharge_charge_controllers_controller.h...

Full disclosure - I get no kickbacks from either FlexCharge or John Drake III for this promo. Just promoting quality stuff I have personal experience with.

cheers, John S.

On 02/22/2016 02:44 PM, Jazzy wrote:

...

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over :( I keep seeing more..and more...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see?

...

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system

...

switches,

...

the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0

Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just trumped making the compass light work.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Truck stop! Excellent!

...

On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last

...

might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger

is

...

working on this crap cloudy day.

...

...

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com>

wrote:

...

...

...

On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote: > > Hi David, > > Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can > use.

...

...

...

> For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar > requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence. > > Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive > in;

...

park; and go exploring.

...

...

> > Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game > rooms

...

/ TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and

...

> Grocery

...

store.

...

> > This is where you hit pay dirt. > > Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do. > > They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food packages > for use in their sleeper cabs. > > Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never > seen

...

at WEST Marine.

...

...

> > Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; > it's a sailor's bonanza. > > Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it rusts > out

...

in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you

...

> can buy

...

a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either).

...

> > Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back. > > Connie > > > > > On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >>> And now we have time for a toast! >>> >>> You have a toaster? >> >> What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric >> > system

...

is coming up fast on my list.

...

>> >> > > >

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design

---

- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Ahh, that's a complicated question. The first answer is "that depends..." On boats as small as ours, the available space for a permanently or even semi-permanently mounted panel is quite small, unless you hang it off the rear (or front?) on a pulpit extension or something like that. And then how much sun where you sail, how to minimize shading, getting a panel least affected by shading (amorphous, NOT crystalline), how much you use your gizmos and what they are. One strategy for getting the most without always getting in the way is a roll-up flexible amorphous panel that you deploy when it pays to deploy, and is small to stash away when not. If planning to actually cruise extended trips and rely on house battery and relatively small PV panel, by all means buy gizmos that use least possible power, obviously. That's the short answer - swamped with other stuff right now, will add more on the math of PV panel power output when I have more time. cheers, John S. On 02/23/2016 12:43 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:

Question #4, About what size solar array will serve on a 17 using the usual number of gizmos. I am concerned about the required collector panel as deck space is limited. thanks for your advice, John. Tom B

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:29 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

These will last a year or two in salt water environments. Longer in fresh. Cheap, but also cheap.

Best unit for a pocket cruiser (or any application actually) with ~6A or smaller 12 volt nominal PV panel is the FlexCharge PV7D. Totally sealed, marine environment ready, and the most efficient charging circuit/algorithm that is also the best for your battery life & health.

http://www.flexcharge.com/PV7D.html

I get them from SolarSeller (John Drake III, old school guy, small specialty business, best prices for what he sells, ships USPS):

http://solarseller.com/seelye_ses_flexcharge_charge_controllers_controller.h...

Full disclosure - I get no kickbacks from either FlexCharge or John Drake III for this promo. Just promoting quality stuff I have personal experience with.

cheers, John S.

On 02/22/2016 02:44 PM, Jazzy wrote:

...

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over :( I keep seeing more..and more...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see?

...

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system

...

switches,

...

the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0

Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just trumped making the compass light work.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Truck stop! Excellent!

...

On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last > might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger > is

...

working on this crap cloudy day.

...

> > Jazz > On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> > wrote:

...

...

> On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote: >> >> Hi David, >> >> Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can >> > use.

...

...

>> For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar >> requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence. >> >> Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive >> > in;

...

park; and go exploring.

...

>> >> Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game >> > rooms

...

/ TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and >> > Grocery

...

store. >> >> This is where you hit pay dirt. >> >> Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do. >> >> They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food packages >> for use in their sleeper cabs. >> >> Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never >> > seen

...

at WEST Marine.

...

>> >> Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; >> it's a sailor's bonanza. >> >> Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it rusts >> > out

...

in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you >> > can buy

...

a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either). >> >> Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back. >> >> Connie >> >> >> >> >> On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> >>>> And now we have time for a toast! >>>> >>>> You have a toaster? >>> >>> What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric >>> >> system

...

is coming up fast on my list. >>> >>> >> >> >>

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design

---

- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

I have an 11 watt panel PERMANENTLY mounted and it keeps my battery up all season. Deploying for an hour or 2 a day is not at all adequate. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary Sent from my iPhone :-)

On Feb 24, 2016, at 5:46 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

thanks for the info, John. You sound like a tax attorney this time of year. Go sailing, Tom B

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:46 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

Ahh, that's a complicated question.

The first answer is "that depends..."

On boats as small as ours, the available space for a permanently or even semi-permanently mounted panel is quite small, unless you hang it off the rear (or front?) on a pulpit extension or something like that. And then how much sun where you sail, how to minimize shading, getting a panel least affected by shading (amorphous, NOT crystalline), how much you use your gizmos and what they are.

One strategy for getting the most without always getting in the way is a roll-up flexible amorphous panel that you deploy when it pays to deploy, and is small to stash away when not.

If planning to actually cruise extended trips and rely on house battery and relatively small PV panel, by all means buy gizmos that use least possible power, obviously.

That's the short answer - swamped with other stuff right now, will add more on the math of PV panel power output when I have more time.

cheers, John S.

...

On 02/23/2016 12:43 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:

Question #4, About what size solar array will serve on a 17 using the usual number of gizmos. I am concerned about the required collector panel as deck space is limited. thanks for your advice, John. Tom B

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:29 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

These will last a year or two in salt water environments. Longer in fresh.

...

Cheap, but also cheap.

Best unit for a pocket cruiser (or any application actually) with ~6A or smaller 12 volt nominal PV panel is the FlexCharge PV7D. Totally sealed, marine environment ready, and the most efficient charging circuit/algorithm that is also the best for your battery life & health.

http://www.flexcharge.com/PV7D.html

I get them from SolarSeller (John Drake III, old school guy, small specialty business, best prices for what he sells, ships USPS):

http://solarseller.com/seelye_ses_flexcharge_charge_controllers_controller.h...

Full disclosure - I get no kickbacks from either FlexCharge or John Drake III for this promo. Just promoting quality stuff I have personal experience with.

cheers, John S.

On 02/22/2016 02:44 PM, Jazzy wrote:

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to

...

drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over :( I keep seeing more..and more...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see?

...

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system

> > switches,

the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet. > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0 > > Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just > trumped > making the compass light work. > > Jazz > On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: > > Truck stop! Excellent! > >> On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last >> >>> might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger >>> >>> is >> > working on this crap cloudy day. > >> >>> Jazz >>> On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> >>> >>> wrote: >> >

>> On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Hi David, >>>> >>>> Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can >>>> >>>> use. >>> >>

> For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar >>>> requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence. >>>> >>>> Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive >>>> >>>> in; >>> >> park; and go exploring. > >> >>>> Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game >>>> >>>> rooms >>> >> > / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and >> >>> >>>> Grocery >>> >> > store. >> >>> >>>> This is where you hit pay dirt. >>>> >>>> Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do. >>>> >>>> They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food >>>> packages >>>> for use in their sleeper cabs. >>>> >>>> Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never >>>> >>>> seen >>> >> at WEST Marine. > >> >>>> Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; >>>> it's a sailor's bonanza. >>>> >>>> Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it >>>> rusts >>>> >>>> out >>> >> > in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you >> >>> >>>> can buy >>> >> > a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either). >> >>> >>>> Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back. >>>> >>>> Connie >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> And now we have time for a toast! >>>>>> >>>>>> You have a toaster? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric >>>>> >>>>> system >>>> >>> > is coming up fast on my list. >> >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> > --

John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design

---

- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design

---

- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

what are the panel dimensions? -- :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - www.m17-375.webs.com On Wed, Feb 24, 2016 at 3:14 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Given no markings is there a way to tell the wattage of my panel?

Jazz

Hook it to a run-down battery, put it perpendicular to full noon sun, see how much current it puts out, that will give you a working value. If it's one of those cheap small black plastic framed ones from auto parts stores or similar, it will be 5W, 7.5W, 10W, 15W max probably...as Dave said, what are the measurements, then just look those kind up online and find same size. cheers, John S, On 02/24/2016 02:14 PM, Jazzy wrote:

Given no markings is there a way to tell the wattage of my panel?

Jazz On Feb 24, 2016 4:12 PM, "GARY M HYDE" <gmhyde1@mac.com> wrote:

...

I have an 11 watt panel PERMANENTLY mounted and it keeps my battery up all season. Deploying for an hour or 2 a day is not at all adequate. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary Sent from my iPhone :-)

...

On Feb 24, 2016, at 5:46 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

thanks for the info, John. You sound like a tax attorney this time of year. Go sailing, Tom B

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:46 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

Ahh, that's a complicated question.

The first answer is "that depends..."

On boats as small as ours, the available space for a permanently or even semi-permanently mounted panel is quite small, unless you hang it off the rear (or front?) on a pulpit extension or something like that. And then how much sun where you sail, how to minimize shading, getting a panel least affected by shading (amorphous, NOT crystalline), how much you use your gizmos and what they are.

One strategy for getting the most without always getting in the way is a roll-up flexible amorphous panel that you deploy when it pays to deploy, and is small to stash away when not.

If planning to actually cruise extended trips and rely on house battery and relatively small PV panel, by all means buy gizmos that use least possible power, obviously.

That's the short answer - swamped with other stuff right now, will add more on the math of PV panel power output when I have more time.

cheers, John S.

...

On 02/23/2016 12:43 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:

Question #4, About what size solar array will serve on a 17 using the usual number of gizmos. I am concerned about the required collector panel as deck space is limited. thanks for your advice, John. Tom B

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:29 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net

...

...

wrote:

These will last a year or two in salt water environments. Longer in fresh.

...

Cheap, but also cheap.

Best unit for a pocket cruiser (or any application actually) with ~6A or smaller 12 volt nominal PV panel is the FlexCharge PV7D. Totally sealed, marine environment ready, and the most efficient charging circuit/algorithm that is also the best for your battery life & health.

http://www.flexcharge.com/PV7D.html

I get them from SolarSeller (John Drake III, old school guy, small specialty business, best prices for what he sells, ships USPS):

http://solarseller.com/seelye_ses_flexcharge_charge_controllers_controller.h...

...

Full disclosure - I get no kickbacks from either FlexCharge or John

Drake

...

III for this promo. Just promoting quality stuff I have personal experience with.

cheers, John S.

On 02/22/2016 02:44 PM, Jazzy wrote:

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to > drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say > anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over > :( I keep seeing more..and more... > > https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0 > > Jazz > On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> > wrote: > > Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see? > >> >> This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. >> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> >> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> >> >> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system >> >>> >>> switches, >> >> the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet. >>> >>> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0 >>> >>> Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just >>> trumped >>> making the compass light work. >>> >>> Jazz >>> On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Truck stop! Excellent! >>> >>>> On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last >>>> >>>>> might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger >>>>> >>>>> is >>>> >>> >> working on this crap cloudy day. >>> >>>> >>>>> Jazz >>>>> On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> >>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>> >>> >> >>>> On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi David, >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can >>>>>> >>>>>> use. >>>>> >>>> >> >>> For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar >>>>>> requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence. >>>>>> >>>>>> Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive >>>>>> >>>>>> in; >>>>> >>>> >> park; and go exploring. >>> >>>> >>>>>> Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game >>>>>> >>>>>> rooms >>>>> >>>> >>> / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Grocery >>>>> >>>> >>> store. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> This is where you hit pay dirt. >>>>>> >>>>>> Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do. >>>>>> >>>>>> They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food >>>>>> packages >>>>>> for use in their sleeper cabs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never >>>>>> >>>>>> seen >>>>> >>>> >> at WEST Marine. >>> >>>> >>>>>> Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; >>>>>> it's a sailor's bonanza. >>>>>> >>>>>> Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it >>>>>> rusts >>>>>> >>>>>> out >>>>> >>>> >>> in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> can buy >>>>> >>>> >>> a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either). >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back. >>>>>> >>>>>> Connie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> And now we have time for a toast! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You have a toaster? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric >>>>>>> >>>>>>> system >>>>>> >>>>> >>> is coming up fast on my list. >>>> >>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>> >> -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design

---

- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Good segue to some quick math examples... An 11W, nominal 12V panel in full direct sun would provide about .85A charging current (ignoring wire loss and power used by charge controllers). Depending on your full sun equivalent hours for your location (latitude & other factors, there are maps/charts online that show averages for north American and also globally) and assuming no shading, on a sunny day you'd get 4-6 hours of that. 4H x .85A = 3.4AH 6H x .85A = 5.1AH So if you're getting that on average most days, and using less AH than than on average most days, your battery will stay full or nearly so. Include a (conservative) 10% power loss in wiring, charging system, and battery efficiency, for a DC-only system with mostly small loads and short wire runs on a small boat. Shading on the panel and/or cloudy skies will reduce power, varying with the situation. Any shading will have a big impact on crystalline panels. There are typically two strings of cells in series in a 12V crystalline panel. Shading just one cell in a string significantly will kill the output of that string almost entirely (e.g. 40-50% reduction in total power output, only one string really working). Shading a cell or more in both strings and you're down 70-90%+ on power output. Shading has less drastic effect on amorphous panels. Power reduction is roughly proportional to area shaded; shade on 30% of panel area means 30% less power, approximately. It's relatively easy to figure your optimal PV system output; difficult to figure actual output with weather and shade, besides tracking it over time when you're actually out sailing, and averaging over time. It is relatively easy to find your max power use, if you have a meter that reads amps - just turn everything on/plug everything in and see what the total current draw is through the main battery cable that powers everything. If some of what you do is recharge battery powered devices, be sure they are charging when you test (not already full and thus not drawing charging current). Check individual items by turning just them on & measuring current draw. Then multiply by hours per day (24 hour cycle, so including anchor light at night, etc.) you use each item and add 'em up and that's your approximate total daily usage. Then you can get a sense of approximate total use vs. approximate total input, and whether you'll slowly run your battery down, or not, if out cruising for a longer period of time. It's a lot easier to design to meet your needs when you have an unshaded, non-moving, roof or ground mount system in a fixed location and more consistent power use (e.g. off grid house)! cheers, John S. On 02/24/2016 02:12 PM, GARY M HYDE wrote:

I have an 11 watt panel PERMANENTLY mounted and it keeps my battery up all season. Deploying for an hour or 2 a day is not at all adequate. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary Sent from my iPhone :-)

...

On Feb 24, 2016, at 5:46 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

thanks for the info, John. You sound like a tax attorney this time of year. Go sailing, Tom B

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 11:46 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

...

Ahh, that's a complicated question.

The first answer is "that depends..."

On boats as small as ours, the available space for a permanently or even semi-permanently mounted panel is quite small, unless you hang it off the rear (or front?) on a pulpit extension or something like that. And then how much sun where you sail, how to minimize shading, getting a panel least affected by shading (amorphous, NOT crystalline), how much you use your gizmos and what they are.

One strategy for getting the most without always getting in the way is a roll-up flexible amorphous panel that you deploy when it pays to deploy, and is small to stash away when not.

If planning to actually cruise extended trips and rely on house battery and relatively small PV panel, by all means buy gizmos that use least possible power, obviously.

That's the short answer - swamped with other stuff right now, will add more on the math of PV panel power output when I have more time.

cheers, John S.

...

On 02/23/2016 12:43 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:

Question #4, About what size solar array will serve on a 17 using the usual number of gizmos. I am concerned about the required collector panel as deck space is limited. thanks for your advice, John. Tom B

On Tue, Feb 23, 2016 at 12:29 AM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:

These will last a year or two in salt water environments. Longer in fresh.

...

Cheap, but also cheap.

Best unit for a pocket cruiser (or any application actually) with ~6A or smaller 12 volt nominal PV panel is the FlexCharge PV7D. Totally sealed, marine environment ready, and the most efficient charging circuit/algorithm that is also the best for your battery life & health.

http://www.flexcharge.com/PV7D.html

I get them from SolarSeller (John Drake III, old school guy, small specialty business, best prices for what he sells, ships USPS):

http://solarseller.com/seelye_ses_flexcharge_charge_controllers_controller.h...

Full disclosure - I get no kickbacks from either FlexCharge or John Drake III for this promo. Just promoting quality stuff I have personal experience with.

cheers, John S.

On 02/22/2016 02:44 PM, Jazzy wrote:

Hiya, yes that's what it is. Even came with a jug of alchohol, wanted to

...

drink it wiring the mast but I resisted. The solar panel doesn't say anything on it, but here's the controller... alas boat time is over :( I keep seeing more..and more...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7z8yzacttsn0dui/20160222_143728.jpg?dl=0

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 12:59 PM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

Nice job. Is that an alcohol stove I see?

> > This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. > www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> > <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> > > On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 2:03 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: > > Ahhh...wires tucked and everything back. Visible are the system > >> >> switches, > > the Master switch, and a dual USB outlet. >> >> https://www.dropbox.com/s/b193rdb4v2x2lcd/20160222_115758.jpg?dl=0 >> >> Mast receiver wet inside boat..grrrr. I guess sealing that just >> trumped >> making the compass light work. >> >> Jazz >> On Feb 22, 2016 9:44 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Truck stop! Excellent! >> >>> On Feb 22, 2016 9:43 AM, "Jazzy" <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last >>> >>>> might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger >>>> >>>> is >>> >> > working on this crap cloudy day. >> >>> >>>> Jazz >>>> On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> >>>> >>>> wrote: >>> >> > >>> On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi David, >>>>> >>>>> Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can >>>>> >>>>> use. >>>> >>> > >> For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar >>>>> requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence. >>>>> >>>>> Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive >>>>> >>>>> in; >>>> >>> > park; and go exploring. >> >>> >>>>> Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game >>>>> >>>>> rooms >>>> >>> >> / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and >>> >>>> >>>>> Grocery >>>> >>> >> store. >>> >>>> >>>>> This is where you hit pay dirt. >>>>> >>>>> Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do. >>>>> >>>>> They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food >>>>> packages >>>>> for use in their sleeper cabs. >>>>> >>>>> Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never >>>>> >>>>> seen >>>> >>> > at WEST Marine. >> >>> >>>>> Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; >>>>> it's a sailor's bonanza. >>>>> >>>>> Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it >>>>> rusts >>>>> >>>>> out >>>> >>> >> in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you >>> >>>> >>>>> can buy >>>> >>> >> a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either). >>> >>>> >>>>> Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back. >>>>> >>>>> Connie >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> And now we have time for a toast! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You have a toaster? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric >>>>>> >>>>>> system >>>>> >>>> >> is coming up fast on my list. >>> >>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >> > -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design

---

- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design

---

- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com

Jazz, What brand of solar charger did you end up with? Tom B This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Mon, Feb 22, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Just to tie up the ammeter draw question I had as I closed it up last might. It's showing 13.05 volts today, so I guess the solar charger is working on this crap cloudy day.

Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 9:16 AM, "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:

...

On 2/22/2016 10:18 AM, David Rifkind wrote:

Hi David,

Let me pass on a bit of accumulated wisdom that the whole gang can use.

For some very strange reason, there are groups of people with similar requirements, but neither side knows of the others existence.

Let me suggest that the next time you pass a BIG Truck STOP, drive in; park; and go exploring.

Aside from toilets / showers / sleeping rooms / restaurants / game rooms / TV lounges / you will eventually find their ACCESSORY Store, and Grocery store.

This is where you hit pay dirt.

Truckers have the same sorts of problems that sailors do.

They need small packages of detergents / canned goods / food packages for use in their sleeper cabs.

Then you will find all sorts of 12 Volt appliances you have never seen at WEST Marine.

Such as the toaster you just referenced; coffee pots; hair curlers; it's a sailor's bonanza.

Of course the things aren't made of stainless steel, but if it rusts out in 5 years in a marine environment, so what, you now know where you can buy a replacement (and these things aren't expensive either).

Go to a big truck stop: explore; and report back.

Connie

On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

...

...

And now we have time for a toast!

You have a toaster?

What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric system is coming up fast on my list.

Thanks guys. Heading out for cleanup and wire tucking. The battery is an exide dual purpose, 160 amp hour. Jazz Jazz On Feb 22, 2016 8:19 AM, "David Rifkind" <drifkind@acm.org> wrote:

...

On Feb 21, 2016, at 7:38 PM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

And now we have time for a toast!

You have a toaster?

What kind of battery (size and type) do you have? A new electric system is coming up fast on my list.

Ok, I think I get the picture now...Sunday I'll report back. Another quick question, the switch panel has 10 15 and 20 volt fuses. Do I really care what's where considering I'm just powering LED lights and such? Should I replace higher capacity fuses with lower? Jazz On Feb 20, 2016 9:16 AM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:

thanks,Mitch, So if I want my voltage meter to just monitor the battery I would wire it between the + and - poles on the battery?

Tom B

This email has been sent from a virus-free computer protected by Avast. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email> <#DDB4FAA8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Sat, Feb 20, 2016 at 10:24 AM, Mitch Carnes <mitch_carnes@sbcglobal.net

...

wrote:

...

+ to positive side of battery, - to negative side of battery. This will power unit AND monitor battery voltage.+load to positive side of battery - load goes to positive side of device being powered.

(AMP/Current

...

meters are typically wired "in line" or "in series" of device being monitored) The negative, or - side of the device being monitored still goes to the negative side of the battery. If it's easier, imagine an arrow on the meter that points from +load to -load, it refers to the direction of current flow from positive to negative. So, in reality, the meter could be connected "+load" on the negative side of the device being monitored and -load of the meter on the negative battery terminal and it would still work fine. This is often done when no/low voltage is desired on the meter current monitor lines. Just be aware the meter is designed to be "in line" with positive potential on the + load side and lower, or negative potential on the -load side. If you want to monitor the entire boats' power draw then all devices will have to be connected to the load side of meter. But it had better not exceed 20 amps, as that is the maximum capacity of the meter. Typically the current side of the meter will be fused, so it is replaceable if it blows. Most meters will register negative current, if a - shows up in front of the reading then it is reversed.Thankfully, since the advent of solar panels, most meters will now dynamically read current in both directions, for charge and discharge cycles, and not be damaged.Yeah, I did a bit of this in my day.......

On Saturday, February 20, 2016 5:49 AM, John Tyner < tynerjr@md.metrocast.net> wrote:

Looks to me (from the pictures on the E-bay page) like it would fit between your battery and the panel and bus. In other words, the battery + would connect to the ammeter +, then the + Load would lead to where you now have the panel "fed from the positive of the battery". And likewise on the negative side.

But I was never very good with electricity; Keith Martin will know, for sure. ----- John Tyner M-15 #412 "Chimpanzee"

On 2/20/2016 4:11 AM, Jazzy wrote:

...

Hi all, A cheapie little Volt/Ammeter just showed up in the mail. Im looking at it and not quite getting how it gets hooked up. It has 4 wires and a horrible little diagram that looks something like this:

- ---------------------------- + ---------------------------- - Load --------------------- +Load ---------------------

My setup is probably much like everyone elses, I have the 8 switch panel fed from the positive of the battery, and also a little negative bus bar for all the negative wires connected to the negative of the battery

Im thinking the simple + and - wires just go to the battery to power the unit. The other two wires that go to the "Load" is where Im losing it...

Do I put the +Load on the last position of the switch panel and the - Load wire on the bus? I dunno...Not sure where it would pick up the "load". Hellllp! Thank you all in advance, Im sure I'll have an answer shortly from one of you super geniuses!

Here's the item ..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-Battery-6-5-100V-20A-LCD-Voltage-Current-KWh-Watt...

...

...

-= Jazzy

On Feb 20, 2016, at 11:24 AM, Jazzy <jazzydaze@gmail.com> wrote:

Ok, I think I get the picture now...Sunday I'll report back. Another quick question, the switch panel has 10 15 and 20 volt fuses. Do I really care what's where considering I'm just powering LED lights and such? Should I replace higher capacity fuses with lower?

The fuses are to protect the wiring and the boat. If you get a hard short, you want the fuse to be the thing that blows out, not a piece of wire running under a flammable cushion. For 16 gauge wire you probably shouldn’t have any fuses over 10A.