Dave Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right? Capt Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast Jim. Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant. Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing. I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments. Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
You are correct. On my Monty 17 I added two 1.5 inch drains about three inches above the level of the cockpit sole with flapper valves on the out board end of them. Even though I do not plan to go to sea, some lakes can get nasty in thunderstorms. The added drains do not come into play normally but will aid in draining down the cockpit much faster than the single 3/4" stock drain. If you go to the MSOG photo website and look up the boat named, AS-IS, you will see how I added mine. Fortunately it is not "rocket science". Mr. Rice took his 11' craft around the tip of South America. You might reference what he did to make his craft seaworthy. Fair winds, Tom B On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:08 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
Tom, thanks. I’ve been hankering for additional cockpit drains on my 15. Any M15 owners who have dealt with this , your solutions would be welcomed. Tom, did you cross the hose lines to the opposite side? Or do the flapper valves obviate the need? Ed E Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2020, at 7:15 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
You are correct. On my Monty 17 I added two 1.5 inch drains about three inches above the level of the cockpit sole with flapper valves on the out board end of them. Even though I do not plan to go to sea, some lakes can get nasty in thunderstorms. The added drains do not come into play normally but will aid in draining down the cockpit much faster than the single 3/4" stock drain. If you go to the MSOG photo website and look up the boat named, AS-IS, you will see how I added mine. Fortunately it is not "rocket science". Mr. Rice took his 11' craft around the tip of South America. You might reference what he did to make his craft seaworthy. Fair winds, Tom B
On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:08 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
I ran them through straight and rely on the flappers. Crossing them is a good idea but adds to the difficulty of installation. Whatever gives you the most peace of mind. I am a belt and suspenders guy myself, having been dismasted at sea with a four know current heading away from land. That happened while I fell overboard with new contacts in my eyes so I was trying to keep my eyes shut underwater as I fought out from under the mainsail. Don't ask. All this to say that when things happen, they seem to come in big, ugly bunches. If I had thought to cross the drains I probably would have, I installed a large access panel in the aft bulkhead of my cockpit which offers me excellent access to the area just inside of the transom. That is the way my 1977 Monty 17 was built. I am not that familiar with the M-15's. Hope any of this helps. On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 10:33 AM Edward Epifani <edepifani@hotmail.com> wrote:
Tom, thanks. I’ve been hankering for additional cockpit drains on my 15. Any M15 owners who have dealt with this , your solutions would be welcomed. Tom, did you cross the hose lines to the opposite side? Or do the flapper valves obviate the need? Ed E
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2020, at 7:15 AM, Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
You are correct. On my Monty 17 I added two 1.5 inch drains about three inches above the level of the cockpit sole with flapper valves on the out board end of them. Even though I do not plan to go to sea, some lakes can get nasty in thunderstorms. The added drains do not come into play normally but will aid in draining down the cockpit much faster than the single 3/4" stock drain. If you go to the MSOG photo website and look up the boat named, AS-IS, you will see how I added mine. Fortunately it is not "rocket science". Mr. Rice took his 11' craft around the tip of South America. You might reference what he did to make his craft seaworthy. Fair winds, Tom B
On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 9:08 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com>
On
Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
Jim. On all the MM5s I've sailed and sailed with none have added cockpit drains. What do you mean by 'going to sea'? :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 7:08 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----
Capt Dave Going to sea means sailing around the channel islands including Catalina and Santa Barbara Island. Hope Sandy don’t see this Capt Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 8:00 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains Jim. On all the MM5s I've sailed and sailed with none have added cockpit drains. What do you mean by 'going to sea'? :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 7:08 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----
Jim: Not aware of anyone who has done that trip and modded their M15. If someone has modded their M15 please comment. The drains need to be many inches above the sole as they must be above the waterline when crew is IN the cockpit. Flaps don't keep the water out if the drains are below the waterline (I've done extensive tests in this). You need to think carefully about how to install as you need to bridge the gap between the transom and cockpit 'liner'. This is an area that requires creating access - especially if the cockpit locker liners are still in place. Do what makes you comfortable. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 9:36 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Capt Dave Going to sea means sailing around the channel islands including Catalina and Santa Barbara Island.
Hope Sandy don’t see this
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 8:00 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Jim.
On all the MM5s I've sailed and sailed with none have added cockpit drains.
What do you mean by 'going to sea'?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 7:08 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----
I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume. The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin. Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains Dave Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right? Capt Jim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast Jim. Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant. Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing. I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments. Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating. A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids. They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal. The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch. The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat. In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid. Connie On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
I seem to have gathered that extensive time in salt water sets in motion a ticking time bomb with regards to centerboard integrity(pellet oxidation, expansion, gel cracking, water intrusion, negative feedback loop, jamming) Any salty M15 owners comment? Maybe M15 not suited for extensive time in the salt? As in moored for long periods of time? Ed E Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating.
A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids.
They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal.
The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch.
The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat.
In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid.
Connie
On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote: I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
Ed: My '84 M15, steel ballast and centerboard weight, had no issues. Sailed on Salish Sea. My '83 M17 with steel ballast and cast iron centerboard had no issues; and she was kept in a mooring over half the year for 25+ years on the Salish Sea (I was her only oner that 'dry sailed'). The M15s &M17s beginning '86/'87 have lead ballast. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 10:05 AM Edward Epifani <edepifani@hotmail.com> wrote:
I seem to have gathered that extensive time in salt water sets in motion a ticking time bomb with regards to centerboard integrity(pellet oxidation, expansion, gel cracking, water intrusion, negative feedback loop, jamming) Any salty M15 owners comment? Maybe M15 not suited for extensive time in the salt? As in moored for long periods of time? Ed E
I think all M15s, even trailer only models will need to have a lead centerboard made at some point... much much easier to install if it's not jammed in place yet. I've been mooring my M15 in saltwater for about 6mo now. It has a lead centerboard from Bob Eeg, but still has the steel ballast in the keel, which I tried to seal in well with extra fiberglass (hope it works). I've also avoided bottom painting for now, and use a homemade poly tarp "boat bath" which I tie to the bottom of the boat, and add a small amount of chlorine after each sail. The chlorine sterilizes the water, and then evaporates so it doesn't pollute when you remove it. No growth yet, but I haven't found a way to get the poly tarp on and off very quickly or easily. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Epifani" <edepifani@hotmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 10:04:41 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains I seem to have gathered that extensive time in salt water sets in motion a ticking time bomb with regards to centerboard integrity(pellet oxidation, expansion, gel cracking, water intrusion, negative feedback loop, jamming) Any salty M15 owners comment? Maybe M15 not suited for extensive time in the salt? As in moored for long periods of time? Ed E Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating.
A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids.
They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal.
The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch.
The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat.
In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid.
Connie
On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote: I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
Skipper I have been thru this I installed new lead cB. And removed and replaced all the steel in the keel. Cost more that the boat was worth but I have had the Pelican for over 40 yrs and grown attached to it. Where is your vessel moored? Capt Jim Sadler -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of casioqv@usermail.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 10:17 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains I think all M15s, even trailer only models will need to have a lead centerboard made at some point... much much easier to install if it's not jammed in place yet. I've been mooring my M15 in saltwater for about 6mo now. It has a lead centerboard from Bob Eeg, but still has the steel ballast in the keel, which I tried to seal in well with extra fiberglass (hope it works). I've also avoided bottom painting for now, and use a homemade poly tarp "boat bath" which I tie to the bottom of the boat, and add a small amount of chlorine after each sail. The chlorine sterilizes the water, and then evaporates so it doesn't pollute when you remove it. No growth yet, but I haven't found a way to get the poly tarp on and off very quickly or easily. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Epifani" <edepifani@hotmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 10:04:41 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains I seem to have gathered that extensive time in salt water sets in motion a ticking time bomb with regards to centerboard integrity(pellet oxidation, expansion, gel cracking, water intrusion, negative feedback loop, jamming) Any salty M15 owners comment? Maybe M15 not suited for extensive time in the salt? As in moored for long periods of time? Ed E Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating.
A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids.
They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal.
The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch.
The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat.
In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid.
Connie
On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote: I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
I have my M15 moored in the Berkeley Marina on San Francisco Bay. It's quite a fun sailing location- very windy almost everyday. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Cc: "Jeff Sadler" <sallybear@yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 12:03:36 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains Skipper I have been thru this I installed new lead cB. And removed and replaced all the steel in the keel. Cost more that the boat was worth but I have had the Pelican for over 40 yrs and grown attached to it. Where is your vessel moored? Capt Jim Sadler -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of casioqv@usermail.com Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 10:17 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains I think all M15s, even trailer only models will need to have a lead centerboard made at some point... much much easier to install if it's not jammed in place yet. I've been mooring my M15 in saltwater for about 6mo now. It has a lead centerboard from Bob Eeg, but still has the steel ballast in the keel, which I tried to seal in well with extra fiberglass (hope it works). I've also avoided bottom painting for now, and use a homemade poly tarp "boat bath" which I tie to the bottom of the boat, and add a small amount of chlorine after each sail. The chlorine sterilizes the water, and then evaporates so it doesn't pollute when you remove it. No growth yet, but I haven't found a way to get the poly tarp on and off very quickly or easily. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Epifani" <edepifani@hotmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 10:04:41 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains I seem to have gathered that extensive time in salt water sets in motion a ticking time bomb with regards to centerboard integrity(pellet oxidation, expansion, gel cracking, water intrusion, negative feedback loop, jamming) Any salty M15 owners comment? Maybe M15 not suited for extensive time in the salt? As in moored for long periods of time? Ed E Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2020, at 9:54 AM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating.
A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids.
They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal.
The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch.
The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat.
In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid.
Connie
On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote: I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
Sounds like your boat had cockpit lockers that opened into the boat, rather than to smallish sealed compartments, whether because it was built that way or someone removed the compartments to access more storage below. My stock cockpit lockers don't open into the interior and none of those complications are necessary. Mike Hettler2007 m-15 annebonny On Monday, November 16, 2020, 12:54:43 PM EST, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote: The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating. A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids. They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal. The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch. The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat. In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid. Connie On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
Thanks for all who responded. A Testament to the affection with which these little boats are regarded. My last boat was an older ( before current OB aux boxcar) MacGregor 25, which I soloed in the Sea of Cortez.I never found any Mac owners groups that particularly loved their boats, just a utilitarian choice. I had my eye on this M15 for 4yrs before owner finally decided to sell. Very Yar , capable looking little boat. LITTLE boat. But despite just ordering the book on the legendary M15 Hawaii voyage, I won’t be doing any bluewater sailing in it. I have been on Blue Water trips on both the Atlantic and Pacific in weather that made 50-100 ft vessels seem quite small. I don’t have the stamina to take a beating in the open ocean at 45 N where I live ,in a 15 ‘ boat, the boat could simply take much more than I could, Though I would love to see blue water again. But I look at the boat and see the minimally drained cockpit as an Achilles heel, for Blue Water voyages.Measured at 30.75 cubic feet the flooded cockpit water weight would be 1,920 lbs. Foot well alone would be 420 lbs. Just that weight in addition to crew would drop stern freeboard enough to allow successive pooping waves to come aboard more easily. If I desired a Bluewater M15 I’d add a stern locker, bridge deck, to cut down cockpit volume. locker gaskets and latches.cockpit drains. Redesign companionway boards, sliding hatch. Glass in window cutouts, replace with bronze port lights. Full lifelines. Stern pulpit. All operations covered, by the way , In any of Don Casey’s books, This Old Boat being the indispensable classic. Of all of these I’ll probably only add drains. And choose my sailing waters carefully. After being on big water for years sailing and commercial fishing, I CHOSE this small boat for small waters, and utter simplicity.And it is so good for them. In addition to being about the coolest looking boat around on most any day. Once again, thanks to the dedicated M boat owners who cherish and help these little boats keep going with well informed advice. Kind Regards, Ed E Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2020, at 1:25 PM, michael hettler via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Sounds like your boat had cockpit lockers that opened into the boat, rather than to smallish sealed compartments, whether because it was built that way or someone removed the compartments to access more storage below. My stock cockpit lockers don't open into the interior and none of those complications are necessary. Mike Hettler2007 m-15 annebonny On Monday, November 16, 2020, 12:54:43 PM EST, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating.
A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids.
They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal.
The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch.
The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat.
In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid.
Connie
On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote: I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
When I was a lad my father was outside one-day clearing snow off the roof where it had drifted over the front door. As I watched he just touched the mass with the snow shovel and the WHOLE mass slid off the roof. Fortunately, we was fast on his feet and managed to step out from under. Your remark about cockpit drains reminds me of my dad's little tap on that snow drift and the avalanche of information that followed . This is a fun group to belong to and displays real soul! On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 4:46 PM Edward Epifani <edepifani@hotmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for all who responded. A Testament to the affection with which these little boats are regarded. My last boat was an older ( before current OB aux boxcar) MacGregor 25, which I soloed in the Sea of Cortez.I never found any Mac owners groups that particularly loved their boats, just a utilitarian choice. I had my eye on this M15 for 4yrs before owner finally decided to sell. Very Yar , capable looking little boat. LITTLE boat. But despite just ordering the book on the legendary M15 Hawaii voyage, I won’t be doing any bluewater sailing in it. I have been on Blue Water trips on both the Atlantic and Pacific in weather that made 50-100 ft vessels seem quite small. I don’t have the stamina to take a beating in the open ocean at 45 N where I live ,in a 15 ‘ boat, the boat could simply take much more than I could, Though I would love to see blue water again. But I look at the boat and see the minimally drained cockpit as an Achilles heel, for Blue Water voyages.Measured at 30.75 cubic feet the flooded cockpit water weight would be 1,920 lbs. Foot well alone would be 420 lbs. Just that weight in addition to crew would drop stern freeboard enough to allow successive pooping waves to come aboard more easily. If I desired a Bluewater M15 I’d add a stern locker, bridge deck, to cut down cockpit volume. locker gaskets and latches.cockpit drains. Redesign companionway boards, sliding hatch. Glass in window cutouts, replace with bronze port lights. Full lifelines. Stern pulpit. All operations covered, by the way , In any of Don Casey’s books, This Old Boat being the indispensable classic. Of all of these I’ll probably only add drains. And choose my sailing waters carefully. After being on big water for years sailing and commercial fishing, I CHOSE this small boat for small waters, and utter simplicity.And it is so good for them. In addition to being about the coolest looking boat around on most any day. Once again, thanks to the dedicated M boat owners who cherish and help these little boats keep going with well informed advice. Kind Regards, Ed E
Sent from my iPhone
On Nov 16, 2020, at 1:25 PM, michael hettler via montgomery_boats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
Sounds like your boat had cockpit lockers that opened into the boat, rather than to smallish sealed compartments, whether because it was built that way or someone removed the compartments to access more storage below. My stock cockpit lockers don't open into the interior and none of those complications are necessary. Mike Hettler2007 m-15 annebonny On Monday, November 16, 2020, 12:54:43 PM EST, Conbert Benneck < chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating.
A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids.
They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal.
The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch.
The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat.
In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid.
Connie
On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote: I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
Mike, When I bought our used M15 hull #400, it had a deep sail locker on the Port side only. The Starboard side just had a shallow molded locker that was OK for a set of car keys or a screwdriver, or your eyeglasses, and sail stops, but in reality, it was totally useless. On a boat the size of the M15 you need every available cubic inch of volume for storage of necessary boat operating equipment. After some head-scratching and a lot of planning, I carefully cut through the edge of the shallow locker upper rim (cut through the middle of the flat area). Then I added some support blocks on the inside of the cut-out so that I could drop the shallow locker back in place. Now I had the use of the shallow locker for small stuff; but also had complete access to the volume below for useful storage. I added some rope lines at each end of the shallow tray as handles to be able to lift it out easily. Now I had the best of both worlds; full access on the Starboard side to all the space down to the hull for storage, where I then kept the Bimini; cockpit cushions; extra PDFs, the emergency paddle / boot hook; the fire extinguisher. All that previously inaccessible and wasted volume was now accessible and useful. If _/*both*/_ your sail lockers have a shallow tray, where do you put your anchors (2) and anchor rodes? Your spare gas container for the Outboard? Cleaning materials; scrub brush? Long handled brush for doing your decks? Bilge pump? Fishing equipment? Swim ladder? Mooring lines? Fenders? Bucket? Fender board? PDFs? Cockpit cushions? Boat hook? Cockpit tarp? Flag staff and flag; and your food cooler? These are all very necessary items of boat equipment that you have to have on board if you want to have a "properly functioning" boat. We used our M15 extensively (formerly had a 29-footer) and cooked and lived on board. We traveled and sailed our M15 from Moosehead Lake, Maine to the Florida Keys. Different sailing areas require additional equipment - longer mooring lines; a fender board if you moor in tidal waters against a barnacle encrusted piling. Your cockpit is part of your on board living area and where I did the cooking. What are you going to do if it rains....? Sit inside? Mike, do you go anywhere with your M15 or do you just use it on a lake for a hour or two of sailing? If it is the latter, then I can understand your "none of those complications are necessary" comment. For me, they are an absolute necessity, which is why I made the modification. Been there: done that. Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO ex Tripp-Lentsch 29 (26 years) FUN TOO ex Northeast 38 RHE On 11/16/2020 3:23 PM, michael hettler via montgomery_boats wrote:
Sounds like your boat had cockpit lockers that opened into the boat, rather than to smallish sealed compartments, whether because it was built that way or someone removed the compartments to access more storage below. My stock cockpit lockers don't open into the interior and none of those complications are necessary. Mike Hettler2007 m-15 annebonny On Monday, November 16, 2020, 12:54:43 PM EST, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating.
A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids.
They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal.
The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch.
The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat.
In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid.
Connie
On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
I've been doing long cruises in my M15 without the cutouts, but I could see the extra space being very useful. I mostly just leave that space empty and pack for long trips using techniques from backpackers and kayak campers. I found a great course online that teaches about how to pack for Kayak camping, and it makes the M15 seem *huge*. Having only a small amount of stuff all in waterproof containers is great. $12 from https://cape-falcon-kayak.thinkific.com In my starboard locker, I can fit a bruce anchor, chain, and rode. In my port locker I fit 4 backpacker style 1 Liter camp fuel bottles for outboard gasoline, plus other misc items for the day. I don't like having fuel loose in the cockpit, or in open air with the cabin. Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Conbert Benneck" <chbenneck@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 3:03:34 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains Mike, When I bought our used M15 hull #400, it had a deep sail locker on the Port side only. The Starboard side just had a shallow molded locker that was OK for a set of car keys or a screwdriver, or your eyeglasses, and sail stops, but in reality, it was totally useless. On a boat the size of the M15 you need every available cubic inch of volume for storage of necessary boat operating equipment. After some head-scratching and a lot of planning, I carefully cut through the edge of the shallow locker upper rim (cut through the middle of the flat area). Then I added some support blocks on the inside of the cut-out so that I could drop the shallow locker back in place. Now I had the use of the shallow locker for small stuff; but also had complete access to the volume below for useful storage. I added some rope lines at each end of the shallow tray as handles to be able to lift it out easily. Now I had the best of both worlds; full access on the Starboard side to all the space down to the hull for storage, where I then kept the Bimini; cockpit cushions; extra PDFs, the emergency paddle / boot hook; the fire extinguisher. All that previously inaccessible and wasted volume was now accessible and useful. If _/*both*/_ your sail lockers have a shallow tray, where do you put your anchors (2) and anchor rodes? Your spare gas container for the Outboard? Cleaning materials; scrub brush? Long handled brush for doing your decks? Bilge pump? Fishing equipment? Swim ladder? Mooring lines? Fenders? Bucket? Fender board? PDFs? Cockpit cushions? Boat hook? Cockpit tarp? Flag staff and flag; and your food cooler? These are all very necessary items of boat equipment that you have to have on board if you want to have a "properly functioning" boat. We used our M15 extensively (formerly had a 29-footer) and cooked and lived on board. We traveled and sailed our M15 from Moosehead Lake, Maine to the Florida Keys. Different sailing areas require additional equipment - longer mooring lines; a fender board if you moor in tidal waters against a barnacle encrusted piling. Your cockpit is part of your on board living area and where I did the cooking. What are you going to do if it rains....? Sit inside? Mike, do you go anywhere with your M15 or do you just use it on a lake for a hour or two of sailing? If it is the latter, then I can understand your "none of those complications are necessary" comment. For me, they are an absolute necessity, which is why I made the modification. Been there: done that. Connie ex M15 #400 LEPPO ex Tripp-Lentsch 29 (26 years) FUN TOO ex Northeast 38 RHE On 11/16/2020 3:23 PM, michael hettler via montgomery_boats wrote:
Sounds like your boat had cockpit lockers that opened into the boat, rather than to smallish sealed compartments, whether because it was built that way or someone removed the compartments to access more storage below. My stock cockpit lockers don't open into the interior and none of those complications are necessary. Mike Hettler2007 m-15 annebonny On Monday, November 16, 2020, 12:54:43 PM EST, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
The most important thing to worry about is keeping all water out of the boat. If water can't get inside, it becomes a bottle with a good cork, and while it may bob about in heavy waves, if water can't get past the cork, the bottle will keep floating.
A major problem on M15s that has to be addressed are the sail locker lids.
They have to have closed cell gasketing material on the bottom of the sail locker lid, (I used about 1" wide sealing tape with adhesive on one side) that mates with the edge of the sail locker itself, and that forms a water tight seal.
The next, and equally important items ,are latches for the sail locker lids so that they can't drop open in the event of a knock-down. I installed latches with a tight fit. When closed, you had to apply some force to open the latch.
The idea was, that the latches were then self-locking in normal use. You could get instant access to either sail locker, while sailing, but the latches couldn't just drop open by themselves, opening a big hole to let water inside the boat.
In a knock-down, you now may get a small amount of water via the gaps at the sides of the companionway boards; or via the breather slots at the top, but now you are talking about a few quarts of water, instead of what can get inside through an open sail locker lid.
Connie
On 11/16/2020 10:25 AM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
Jamestown has just come out with a two part foam that looks great for filling in dead spaces below with positive foam flotation. Just mix and pour it in. I may use some of it with my Monty knowing that it will sink if holed. On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 10:26 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
I highly recommend the book "A Little Breeze To The West" by Michael Scott Mann. A great adventure, but it also extensively describes bluewater modifications for the M15. If I remember correctly, he added two large drains, as well as a styrofoam block to fill most of the cockpit volume.
The M15 also needs a redesigned cockpit hatch to keep the cabin dry, sea spray will go right under it and soak the cabin.
Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Sadler" <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 7:07:57 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: M15 cockpit drains
Dave
Have other skippers improved the cockpit drains in the M15? I am planning to take the Pelican to sea and if I took a wave over the stern the cock pit would not drain fast enough......right?
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 1:15 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim.
Anything with a buffing agent will remove the alum oxide where the anodizing is missing. The oxide is a very effective protectant.
Buffing compound will also damage/remove the anodizing.
I'm sure there is discussion out there on some www-site on waxing aluminum spars but IMO you are making work and causing more work to be needed in the future. I never once had anyone every question how the masts looked on my '84 M15 and '83 M17. Folks looked at the brightwork and shiny gel coat topsides and hull. SWEET PEA's (a M17) tanbark sails also received positive comments.
Raise the mast and go sailing. Better use of your time.
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 12:58 PM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks Captain
I checked on new mast......$700 plus $300 shipping!
Is there anyway to just clean it? Without damage to anodize ? Maybe wax it? The Pelican looks great except for the bloches on the mast.
Jim S
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 10:58 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Unless you do the refinishing yourself, hand painting after taking off all hardware, sanding, sanding, acid etching, paint, repaint, it will be cheaper to buy a new mast.
A spar shop will likely know a place that can do painting (there is an Westsail 26 near me, for example, that has a freshly painted mast - the owner likely had it done at Port Townsend Rigging or SEA Marine at Point Hudson). This is $$$.
A painted mast on a trailered boat, or boat that is rigged/de-rigged often will quickly show wear, scratches and dings.
Save your money and buy new sails - the #1 thing you can do to make the boat sail better. Or put the funds into the cruising kitty and take a long trip!
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 10:45 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Thanks David
Not damaged
No extensive corrosion
Not bent
I is just 40 years old and now the Pelican is not berthed the garage, but in a slip in Oceanside harbor.
It just doesn’t look Bristol like the rest of the vessel
Capt Jim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> On Behalf Of Dave Scobie Sent: Friday, November 13, 2020 8:34 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: new M15 mast
Jim:
Is the mast damaged? Is there extensive corrosion under the hardware? Has it been bent?
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/
On Fri, Nov 13, 2020, 5:35 AM Jim Sadler <jimsadler@jascopacific.com> wrote:
Bob Is it possible to get new mast for M15? Or can I get it re anadized or powder coated?
Thanks Capt Jim Sadler SV Pelican
These foams have some significant dangers and negatives - They all shrink and then encourage mold to grow in the void spaces. After shrinking the now loose bits of foam will bounce and clunk ... especially when trying to sleep. Improperly installed can blow the boat structures apart - like break bulkheads, rip out tabbing and deform the hull/deck/interior. Make it impossible to access parts of the boat for maintenance and adding items later (meaning have to chip out the foam) :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 11:42 AM Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Jamestown has just come out with a two part foam that looks great for filling in dead spaces below with positive foam flotation. Just mix and pour it in. I may use some of it with my Monty knowing that it will sink if holed.
Pour-in foam also soaks up water; I know from experience. The first boat I designed/built was a catamaran. I poured in roam in the ends, when built it weighed about 300 lbs, and after a year or so it started getting a little sluggish, so I weighed it again. Nearly 400 lbs. I had to cut holes in the decks and stuck in a drill motor with a big spade bit, then vacuumed, then drilled, then vacuumed, etc. Dug out all the wet foam. Possibly foam is better now. I talked to the ownmer of Clark Foam and he told me that it needs very close conditions, like temperature and mixing it accurately and rapidly so that the closed cells are truly closed. That's my story and i'm sticking to it. jerry ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 11:50 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: two part foams These foams have some significant dangers and negatives - They all shrink and then encourage mold to grow in the void spaces. After shrinking the now loose bits of foam will bounce and clunk ... especially when trying to sleep. Improperly installed can blow the boat structures apart - like break bulkheads, rip out tabbing and deform the hull/deck/interior. Make it impossible to access parts of the boat for maintenance and adding items later (meaning have to chip out the foam) :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/<http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/> On Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 11:42 AM Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Jamestown has just come out with a two part foam that looks great for filling in dead spaces below with positive foam flotation. Just mix and pour it in. I may use some of it with my Monty knowing that it will sink if holed.
Apparently the folks at Jamestown heard your story the first time. They added that the closed-cell foam that results is 96% sealed so it won't soak up water. I was concerned while reading their brochure due to my experience with not being able to access every part of a hull when suddenly there is water collecting in the bilge. Oh well, the foam could be a good idea for that special where and when. On Mon, Nov 16, 2020 at 4:05 PM jerry montgomery <jmbn1@outlook.com> wrote:
Pour-in foam also soaks up water; I know from experience. The first boat I designed/built was a catamaran. I poured in roam in the ends, when built it weighed about 300 lbs, and after a year or so it started getting a little sluggish, so I weighed it again. Nearly 400 lbs.
I had to cut holes in the decks and stuck in a drill motor with a big spade bit, then vacuumed, then drilled, then vacuumed, etc. Dug out all the wet foam. Possibly foam is better now. I talked to the ownmer of Clark Foam and he told me that it needs very close conditions, like temperature and mixing it accurately and rapidly so that the closed cells are truly closed.
That's my story and i'm sticking to it.
jerry
________________________________ From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, November 16, 2020 11:50 AM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: two part foams
These foams have some significant dangers and negatives -
They all shrink and then encourage mold to grow in the void spaces.
After shrinking the now loose bits of foam will bounce and clunk ... especially when trying to sleep.
Improperly installed can blow the boat structures apart - like break bulkheads, rip out tabbing and deform the hull/deck/interior.
Make it impossible to access parts of the boat for maintenance and adding items later (meaning have to chip out the foam)
:: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/< http://www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/>
On Mon, Nov 16, 2020, 11:42 AM Thomas Buzzi <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
Jamestown has just come out with a two part foam that looks great for filling in dead spaces below with positive foam flotation. Just mix and pour it in. I may use some of it with my Monty knowing that it will sink if holed.
participants (8)
-
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Conbert Benneck -
Dave Scobie -
Edward Epifani -
jerry montgomery -
Jim Sadler -
michael hettler -
Thomas Buzzi