Re: M_Boats: Avoiding Kiting at Anchor
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry, running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL Sent from my iPad
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my Nor’Sea), but it won’t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy. On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry, running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
On 24-Apr-14 11:59 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote: Hi gang, Things get even more interesting if you have tide changes to worry about. Suggestions I have read about and had contemplated trying out were: - Add a heavy weight on a line so that it can easily be retrieved, to your anchor rode. This is called a traveler, and it serves to: A) keep the pull on your anchor horizontal (also the reason why you want several feet of chain at the anchor). The Traveler effectively shortens the anchor rode scope, thereby cutting down the amount of yawing that the boat can do. B) Attaching the anchor rode to the winch eye at the waterline, will also help to reduce yawing. C) The riding sail at the stern does work well (and is why long distance cruisers like ketches and yawls - they set the mizzen sail, and sleep comfortably) but the problem is it has to be as far aft as possible. On an M15 it would mean fastening the clew of the sail to the end of the boom; having some place to put the tack fitting; and using the main halyard to hold it in position. Of course, the boom has to be fastened to each corner of the transom so that it can't move. A version of this approach is to have a riding sail that is "Vee shaped" with the leading edge forward, and the two "wings" of the sail going P/S to the stern . This improves the riding sail action in holding the bow to the wind D) Another thing that works is a pail on a lanyard hung over the stern and cleated off. The pail is full of water, hangs straight down so it doesn't attract propellers, and acts as a brake to keep the stern from swinging back and forth as soon as the boat tries to move. Happy playing with the ideas, Connie
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my NorÂ’Sea), but it wonÂ’t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry, running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
The pail off the stern sounds like the "biggest bang for the buck". On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com>wrote:
On 24-Apr-14 11:59 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Hi gang,
Things get even more interesting if you have tide changes to worry about.
Suggestions I have read about and had contemplated trying out were:
- Add a heavy weight on a line so that it can easily be retrieved, to your anchor rode. This is called a traveler, and it serves to: A) keep the pull on your anchor horizontal (also the reason why you want several feet of chain at the anchor). The Traveler effectively shortens the anchor rode scope, thereby cutting down the amount of yawing that the boat can do. B) Attaching the anchor rode to the winch eye at the waterline, will also help to reduce yawing. C) The riding sail at the stern does work well (and is why long distance cruisers like ketches and yawls - they set the mizzen sail, and sleep comfortably) but the problem is it has to be as far aft as possible. On an M15 it would mean fastening the clew of the sail to the end of the boom; having some place to put the tack fitting; and using the main halyard to hold it in position. Of course, the boom has to be fastened to each corner of the transom so that it can't move. A version of this approach is to have a riding sail that is "Vee shaped" with the leading edge forward, and the two "wings" of the sail going P/S to the stern . This improves the riding sail action in holding the bow to the wind D) Another thing that works is a pail on a lanyard hung over the stern and cleated off. The pail is full of water, hangs straight down so it doesn't attract propellers, and acts as a brake to keep the stern from swinging back and forth as soon as the boat tries to move.
Happy playing with the ideas,
Connie
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my Nor’Sea), but it won’t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry,
running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
In a protected area with light chop I normally anchor from the stern. Stops all of the kiting and anchoring drama. If chop is light enough to sleep with this configuration I would keep it tied off at the stern but extend the line to the bow. If the wind or chop picked up in the night I could release the stern tie off and the boat would swing into the wind. I do remember a report that stated that some boat designs were safer with a stern anchor than a bow anchor in a big blow. My reason for changing to the bow anchor in the middle of the night is the noise under the broad stern. Anchoring by the stern is absolutely my favorites method Doug Kelch M15 G #310 "Seas the Day" On Apr 24, 2014 10:36 AM, "Thomas Buzzi" <thomaspbuzzi@gmail.com> wrote:
The pail off the stern sounds like the "biggest bang for the buck".
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com
wrote:
On 24-Apr-14 11:59 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Hi gang,
Things get even more interesting if you have tide changes to worry about.
Suggestions I have read about and had contemplated trying out were:
- Add a heavy weight on a line so that it can easily be retrieved, to your anchor rode. This is called a traveler, and it serves to: A) keep the pull on your anchor horizontal (also the reason why you want several feet of chain at the anchor). The Traveler effectively shortens the anchor rode scope, thereby cutting down the amount of yawing that the boat can do. B) Attaching the anchor rode to the winch eye at the waterline, will also help to reduce yawing. C) The riding sail at the stern does work well (and is why long distance cruisers like ketches and yawls - they set the mizzen sail, and sleep comfortably) but the problem is it has to be as far aft as possible. On an M15 it would mean fastening the clew of the sail to the end of the boom; having some place to put the tack fitting; and using the main halyard to hold it in position. Of course, the boom has to be fastened to each corner of the transom so that it can't move. A version of this approach is to have a riding sail that is "Vee shaped" with the leading edge forward, and the two "wings" of the sail going P/S to the stern . This improves the riding sail action in holding the bow to the wind D) Another thing that works is a pail on a lanyard hung over the stern and cleated off. The pail is full of water, hangs straight down so it doesn't attract propellers, and acts as a brake to keep the stern from swinging back and forth as soon as the boat tries to move.
Happy playing with the ideas,
Connie
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my Nor’Sea), but it won’t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry,
running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
On 24-Apr-14 12:34 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: The pail on a line fastened to a cleat at the stern is also a great boat brake to slow down if you are coming into a dock too fast; .... but it has to be rigged and ready for instant action when needed. Remember, when you need that brake, it is right NOW; not in five minutes after you have raised the sail locker lid; removed the pail; found a length of line; and made a bowline on the handle; and fastened the bitter end to a stern cleat. If you have to do that you will first hear a bang as your bow hits the dock; your boat comes to a stop; and then you can complete your preparation work for the brake.... It has to be ready for instant use at all times. Another thought: The pail needs a strong bail that will take the strain, and not pop out of itty-bitty plastic indentations. Connie
The pail off the stern sounds like the "biggest bang for the buck".
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com>wrote:
On 24-Apr-14 11:59 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Hi gang,
Things get even more interesting if you have tide changes to worry about.
Suggestions I have read about and had contemplated trying out were:
- Add a heavy weight on a line so that it can easily be retrieved, to your anchor rode. This is called a traveler, and it serves to: A) keep the pull on your anchor horizontal (also the reason why you want several feet of chain at the anchor). The Traveler effectively shortens the anchor rode scope, thereby cutting down the amount of yawing that the boat can do. B) Attaching the anchor rode to the winch eye at the waterline, will also help to reduce yawing. C) The riding sail at the stern does work well (and is why long distance cruisers like ketches and yawls - they set the mizzen sail, and sleep comfortably) but the problem is it has to be as far aft as possible. On an M15 it would mean fastening the clew of the sail to the end of the boom; having some place to put the tack fitting; and using the main halyard to hold it in position. Of course, the boom has to be fastened to each corner of the transom so that it can't move. A version of this approach is to have a riding sail that is "Vee shaped" with the leading edge forward, and the two "wings" of the sail going P/S to the stern . This improves the riding sail action in holding the bow to the wind D) Another thing that works is a pail on a lanyard hung over the stern and cleated off. The pail is full of water, hangs straight down so it doesn't attract propellers, and acts as a brake to keep the stern from swinging back and forth as soon as the boat tries to move.
Happy playing with the ideas,
Connie
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my Nor’Sea), but it won’t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry,
running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
Connie, The bucket brake is a great idea, although it would take practice. My technique for coming into a slip downwind when it’s blowing like stink has been to drop the sails some distance away and enter under bare poles. The critical step is to throw a line behind the outer dock cleat and bring the boat up short, realizing that missing is not an option. This is obviously even trickier if the boat has high freeboard, since you have to release the tiller and do the deed with two hands available. On Apr 24, 2014, at 12:51 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com> wrote:
On 24-Apr-14 12:34 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote:
The pail on a line fastened to a cleat at the stern is also a great boat brake to slow down if you are coming into a dock too fast; .... but it has to be rigged and ready for instant action when needed.
Remember, when you need that brake, it is right NOW; not in five minutes after you have raised the sail locker lid; removed the pail; found a length of line; and made a bowline on the handle; and fastened the bitter end to a stern cleat. If you have to do that you will first hear a bang as your bow hits the dock; your boat comes to a stop; and then you can complete your preparation work for the brake....
It has to be ready for instant use at all times.
Another thought: The pail needs a strong bail that will take the strain, and not pop out of itty-bitty plastic indentations.
Connie
The pail off the stern sounds like the "biggest bang for the buck".
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Conbert Benneck <chbenneck@gmail.com>wrote:
On 24-Apr-14 11:59 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Hi gang,
Things get even more interesting if you have tide changes to worry about.
Suggestions I have read about and had contemplated trying out were:
- Add a heavy weight on a line so that it can easily be retrieved, to your anchor rode. This is called a traveler, and it serves to: A) keep the pull on your anchor horizontal (also the reason why you want several feet of chain at the anchor). The Traveler effectively shortens the anchor rode scope, thereby cutting down the amount of yawing that the boat can do. B) Attaching the anchor rode to the winch eye at the waterline, will also help to reduce yawing. C) The riding sail at the stern does work well (and is why long distance cruisers like ketches and yawls - they set the mizzen sail, and sleep comfortably) but the problem is it has to be as far aft as possible. On an M15 it would mean fastening the clew of the sail to the end of the boom; having some place to put the tack fitting; and using the main halyard to hold it in position. Of course, the boom has to be fastened to each corner of the transom so that it can't move. A version of this approach is to have a riding sail that is "Vee shaped" with the leading edge forward, and the two "wings" of the sail going P/S to the stern . This improves the riding sail action in holding the bow to the wind D) Another thing that works is a pail on a lanyard hung over the stern and cleated off. The pail is full of water, hangs straight down so it doesn't attract propellers, and acts as a brake to keep the stern from swinging back and forth as soon as the boat tries to move.
Happy playing with the ideas,
Connie
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my Nor’Sea), but it won’t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry,
running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
On 24-Apr-14 12:34 PM, Thomas Buzzi wrote: The pail on a line fastened to a cleat at the stern is also a great boat brake to slow down if you are coming into a dock too fast; .... but it has to be rigged and ready for instant action when needed. Remember, you need that brake right NOW; not in five minutes after you have raised the sail locker lid; gotten out the pail; found the line; fastened the line to the bail; It has to be ready for instant use at all times. Connie
The pail off the stern sounds like the "biggest bang for the buck".
On Thu, Apr 24, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Conbert Benneck<chbenneck@gmail.com>wrote:
On 24-Apr-14 11:59 AM, Tom Jenkins wrote:
Hi gang,
Things get even more interesting if you have tide changes to worry about.
Suggestions I have read about and had contemplated trying out were:
- Add a heavy weight on a line so that it can easily be retrieved, to your anchor rode. This is called a traveler, and it serves to: A) keep the pull on your anchor horizontal (also the reason why you want several feet of chain at the anchor). The Traveler effectively shortens the anchor rode scope, thereby cutting down the amount of yawing that the boat can do. B) Attaching the anchor rode to the winch eye at the waterline, will also help to reduce yawing. C) The riding sail at the stern does work well (and is why long distance cruisers like ketches and yawls - they set the mizzen sail, and sleep comfortably) but the problem is it has to be as far aft as possible. On an M15 it would mean fastening the clew of the sail to the end of the boom; having some place to put the tack fitting; and using the main halyard to hold it in position. Of course, the boom has to be fastened to each corner of the transom so that it can't move. A version of this approach is to have a riding sail that is "Vee shaped" with the leading edge forward, and the two "wings" of the sail going P/S to the stern . This improves the riding sail action in holding the bow to the wind D) Another thing that works is a pail on a lanyard hung over the stern and cleated off. The pail is full of water, hangs straight down so it doesn't attract propellers, and acts as a brake to keep the stern from swinging back and forth as soon as the boat tries to move.
Happy playing with the ideas,
Connie
Directing the rode through the tow eye with a caribiner should reduce the complexity of motion (at least it worked on my Nor’Sea), but it won’t stop the kiting per se. Might it be possible to deploy some type of parachute (like a storm anchor) on a float off the stern? Of course, a stern anchor is ideal for crowded anchorages and stops most of the kiting as well, but they take some work to deploy without a dinghy.
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan<nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry,
running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
Sean: I tried that too with mixed results. May work better on boats bigger than 17'. Actually, tacking all night doesn't bother me all that much. ~~~_/)~~~ Gary Sent from my iPhone :-)
On Apr 24, 2014, at 9:20 AM, Sean Mulligan <nebwest2@aol.com> wrote:
Haven't used a riding sail....but I have tried the same thing as Larry, running a line from a stern cleat to the anchor line and adjusting length to try to keep boat from tacking. I got the same less than satisfactory results. I did find that trailing the inflatable astern does tend to calm the boat down a bit but in a crowded anchorage..it is probably not going to be very appreciated. When some inattentive bonehead runs over the painter...well....that will probably be worse than tacking back and forth...LOL
Sent from my iPad
participants (6)
-
Conbert Benneck -
Douglas Kelch -
GARY M HYDE -
Sean Mulligan -
Thomas Buzzi -
Tom Jenkins