Intentional Capsize for M15
Hi M sailors, I've been watching a few videos about the SCAMP, which is a small wooden boat designed by John Welsford. Seems to be a very stable boat and they did an interesting Intentional Capsize with the boat to judge stability, safety, and self-rescue. I'm sure many of you may have seen the short videos - if not, here are a couple links for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9lvJNVqnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZNWAkdkXM My question as an M15 owner is if this type of test or intentional capsize and recovery has been done on an M15 or M17 or similar boats? I would suspect it would be much harder to intentionally capsize an M17, but an M15 seems like this test could be done. I come from a dinghy sailing background where capsizes are part of the experience and sure adds to your confidence when you know what will happen in a capsize and that you can recover as needed. So that is what got me thinking along these lines. I know I've read that capsizes and knockdowns are very rare for M15s but thought this may be a good summer time type of test/experiment. If not done intentionally, any stories of capsizes and recovery out there? I read the one on msog.org, but hadn't heard of any others. That link for reference is: http://msog.org/how-to/how-to_flotjet.cfm#knockdown Thanks for any insights. Blair M15 #126
Jerry says you can get the M15 mast to the water quickly by you being in the water and reaching up to the bow pulpit. this will roll the boat right onto her beam end. you let go of the pulpit the boat will snap right back up. i've never seen an M15 stay over like the SCAMP does. i've read and talked with a few folks that went through a knockdown where the boat comes right back up once the main sheet is released. last year an M15 did go over and turtle. boat in heavy wind, on a deep reach (if i remember correctly), full main and partially rolled up furling jib, as the boat went over the main wasn't released. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Blair Ashworth <blairashworth@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi M sailors, I've been watching a few videos about the SCAMP, which is a small wooden boat designed by John Welsford. Seems to be a very stable boat and they did an interesting Intentional Capsize with the boat to judge stability, safety, and self-rescue.
I'm sure many of you may have seen the short videos - if not, here are a couple links for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9lvJNVqnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZNWAkdkXM
My question as an M15 owner is if this type of test or intentional capsize and recovery has been done on an M15 or M17 or similar boats? I would suspect it would be much harder to intentionally capsize an M17, but an M15 seems like this test could be done.
I come from a dinghy sailing background where capsizes are part of the experience and sure adds to your confidence when you know what will happen in a capsize and that you can recover as needed. So that is what got me thinking along these lines. I know I've read that capsizes and knockdowns are very rare for M15s but thought this may be a good summer time type of test/experiment.
If not done intentionally, any stories of capsizes and recovery out there? I read the one on msog.org, but hadn't heard of any others. That link for reference is: http://msog.org/how-to/how-to_flotjet.cfm#knockdown
Thanks for any insights. Blair M15 #126
My question is "if a M15 capsizes (not turn turtle) will water be able to flood the cockpit and below deck and sink the boat?" Willy Gorrissen M15 on Payette Lake, McCall ID Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: Dave Scobie<mailto:scoobscobie@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:34 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats<mailto:montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 Jerry says you can get the M15 mast to the water quickly by you being in the water and reaching up to the bow pulpit. this will roll the boat right onto her beam end. you let go of the pulpit the boat will snap right back up. i've never seen an M15 stay over like the SCAMP does. i've read and talked with a few folks that went through a knockdown where the boat comes right back up once the main sheet is released. last year an M15 did go over and turtle. boat in heavy wind, on a deep reach (if i remember correctly), full main and partially rolled up furling jib, as the boat went over the main wasn't released. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Blair Ashworth <blairashworth@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi M sailors, I've been watching a few videos about the SCAMP, which is a small wooden boat designed by John Welsford. Seems to be a very stable boat and they did an interesting Intentional Capsize with the boat to judge stability, safety, and self-rescue.
I'm sure many of you may have seen the short videos - if not, here are a couple links for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9lvJNVqnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZNWAkdkXM
My question as an M15 owner is if this type of test or intentional capsize and recovery has been done on an M15 or M17 or similar boats? I would suspect it would be much harder to intentionally capsize an M17, but an M15 seems like this test could be done.
I come from a dinghy sailing background where capsizes are part of the experience and sure adds to your confidence when you know what will happen in a capsize and that you can recover as needed. So that is what got me thinking along these lines. I know I've read that capsizes and knockdowns are very rare for M15s but thought this may be a good summer time type of test/experiment.
If not done intentionally, any stories of capsizes and recovery out there? I read the one on msog.org, but hadn't heard of any others. That link for reference is: http://msog.org/how-to/how-to_flotjet.cfm#knockdown
Thanks for any insights. Blair M15 #126
If the flotation foam is present, as Jerry designed, a M15 will not sink. Yes, water will come into the cockpit and if, depending on degree of knockdown, the cabin will fill. As wind increases best to out in drop in hatches and confirm cockpit lockers are dogged down ( if pans have been removed). Locking the boat down will reduce the amount of water that gets below. :: Dave Scobie On Jan 26, 2017 5:59 PM, "Willy Gorrissen" <gorrissen@hotmail.com> wrote:
My question is "if a M15 capsizes (not turn turtle) will water be able to flood the cockpit and below deck and sink the boat?"
Willy Gorrissen M15 on Payette Lake, McCall ID
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
From: Dave Scobie<mailto:scoobscobie@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:34 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats<mailto:montgomery_ boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15
Jerry says you can get the M15 mast to the water quickly by you being in the water and reaching up to the bow pulpit. this will roll the boat right onto her beam end. you let go of the pulpit the boat will snap right back up.
i've never seen an M15 stay over like the SCAMP does. i've read and talked with a few folks that went through a knockdown where the boat comes right back up once the main sheet is released.
last year an M15 did go over and turtle. boat in heavy wind, on a deep reach (if i remember correctly), full main and partially rolled up furling jib, as the boat went over the main wasn't released.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Blair Ashworth <blairashworth@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi M sailors, I've been watching a few videos about the SCAMP, which is a small wooden boat designed by John Welsford. Seems to be a very stable boat and they did an interesting Intentional Capsize with the boat to judge stability, safety, and self-rescue.
I'm sure many of you may have seen the short videos - if not, here are a couple links for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9lvJNVqnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZNWAkdkXM
My question as an M15 owner is if this type of test or intentional capsize and recovery has been done on an M15 or M17 or similar boats? I would suspect it would be much harder to intentionally capsize an M17, but an M15 seems like this test could be done.
I come from a dinghy sailing background where capsizes are part of the experience and sure adds to your confidence when you know what will happen in a capsize and that you can recover as needed. So that is what got me thinking along these lines. I know I've read that capsizes and knockdowns are very rare for M15s but thought this may be a good summer time type of test/experiment.
If not done intentionally, any stories of capsizes and recovery out there? I read the one on msog.org, but hadn't heard of any others. That link for reference is: http://msog.org/how-to/how-to_flotjet.cfm#knockdown
Thanks for any insights. Blair M15 #126
Hello All, In 2015 four conditions of wind, water, current and point of sail came together and my M- 15 turtled under full sail before I could even release the main sheet. I can tell you unequivocally that the Monty will not sink when righted even though she is filled with water providing that the factory flotation is still in place. Instead of experimenting with a controlled capsize my advice is to wear your PFD, keep the drop boards in place and the main sheet in hand no matter how benign the sailing conditions may seem. Enjoy your Monty safely. RTH. -----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:08 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 If the flotation foam is present, as Jerry designed, a M15 will not sink. Yes, water will come into the cockpit and if, depending on degree of knockdown, the cabin will fill. As wind increases best to out in drop in hatches and confirm cockpit lockers are dogged down ( if pans have been removed). Locking the boat down will reduce the amount of water that gets below. :: Dave Scobie On Jan 26, 2017 5:59 PM, "Willy Gorrissen" <gorrissen@hotmail.com> wrote:
My question is "if a M15 capsizes (not turn turtle) will water be able to flood the cockpit and below deck and sink the boat?"
Willy Gorrissen M15 on Payette Lake, McCall ID
Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10
From: Dave Scobie<mailto:scoobscobie@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:34 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats<mailto:montgomery_ boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15
Jerry says you can get the M15 mast to the water quickly by you being in the water and reaching up to the bow pulpit. this will roll the boat right onto her beam end. you let go of the pulpit the boat will snap right back up.
i've never seen an M15 stay over like the SCAMP does. i've read and talked with a few folks that went through a knockdown where the boat comes right back up once the main sheet is released.
last year an M15 did go over and turtle. boat in heavy wind, on a deep reach (if i remember correctly), full main and partially rolled up furling jib, as the boat went over the main wasn't released.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Blair Ashworth <blairashworth@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi M sailors, I've been watching a few videos about the SCAMP, which is a small wooden boat designed by John Welsford. Seems to be a very stable boat and they did an interesting Intentional Capsize with the boat to judge stability, safety, and self-rescue.
I'm sure many of you may have seen the short videos - if not, here are a couple links for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9lvJNVqnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZNWAkdkXM
My question as an M15 owner is if this type of test or intentional capsize and recovery has been done on an M15 or M17 or similar boats? I would suspect it would be much harder to intentionally capsize an M17, but an M15 seems like this test could be done.
I come from a dinghy sailing background where capsizes are part of the experience and sure adds to your confidence when you know what will happen in a capsize and that you can recover as needed. So that is what got me thinking along these lines. I know I've read that capsizes and knockdowns are very rare for M15s but thought this may be a good summer time type of test/experiment.
If not done intentionally, any stories of capsizes and recovery out there? I read the one on msog.org, but hadn't heard of any others. That link for reference is: http://msog.org/how-to/how-to_flotjet.cfm#knockdown
Thanks for any insights. Blair M15 #126
When is Pocket Yacht Palooza in Port Townsend? Thought there would be something about it in the recent issue of SCA, but no luck. But the magazine did have some good articles about M-boats. Steve M-15 # 335 -----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 1:34 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Intentional Capsize for M15 Jerry says you can get the M15 mast to the water quickly by you being in the water and reaching up to the bow pulpit. this will roll the boat right onto her beam end. you let go of the pulpit the boat will snap right back up. i've never seen an M15 stay over like the SCAMP does. i've read and talked with a few folks that went through a knockdown where the boat comes right back up once the main sheet is released. last year an M15 did go over and turtle. boat in heavy wind, on a deep reach (if i remember correctly), full main and partially rolled up furling jib, as the boat went over the main wasn't released. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 1:58 PM, Blair Ashworth <blairashworth@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi M sailors, I've been watching a few videos about the SCAMP, which is a small wooden boat designed by John Welsford. Seems to be a very stable boat and they did an interesting Intentional Capsize with the boat to judge stability, safety, and self-rescue.
I'm sure many of you may have seen the short videos - if not, here are a couple links for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9lvJNVqnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZNWAkdkXM
My question as an M15 owner is if this type of test or intentional capsize and recovery has been done on an M15 or M17 or similar boats? I would suspect it would be much harder to intentionally capsize an M17, but an M15 seems like this test could be done.
I come from a dinghy sailing background where capsizes are part of the experience and sure adds to your confidence when you know what will happen in a capsize and that you can recover as needed. So that is what got me thinking along these lines. I know I've read that capsizes and knockdowns are very rare for M15s but thought this may be a good summer time type of test/experiment.
If not done intentionally, any stories of capsizes and recovery out there? I read the one on msog.org, but hadn't heard of any others. That link for reference is: http://msog.org/how-to/how-to_flotjet.cfm#knockdown
Thanks for any insights. Blair M15 #126
Steve: Pocket Yacht Palooza is 22 July '17. http://www.pocketyachters.com/Port_Townsend_Pocket_Yachters/Pocket_Yacht_Pal... hope to see ya' there. i plan to arrive in PT no later than the 20th ... maybe a few days prior to that if folks want to see a S15 in the water (as i have to leave for Salt Lake City early on the 23rd for another event). :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
When is Pocket Yacht Palooza in Port Townsend? Thought there would be something about it in the recent issue of SCA, but no luck. But the magazine did have some good articles about M-boats.
Steve
M-15 # 335
Thanx, Steve -----Original Message----- From: Dave Scobie Sent: Tuesday, May 9, 2017 8:01 PM To: For and about Montgomery Sailboats Subject: Re: M_Boats: Pocket Yacht Palooza Steve: Pocket Yacht Palooza is 22 July '17. http://www.pocketyachters.com/Port_Townsend_Pocket_Yachters/Pocket_Yacht_Pal... hope to see ya' there. i plan to arrive in PT no later than the 20th ... maybe a few days prior to that if folks want to see a S15 in the water (as i have to leave for Salt Lake City early on the 23rd for another event). :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Tue, May 9, 2017 at 8:42 PM, Steve Trapp <stevetrapp@q.com> wrote:
When is Pocket Yacht Palooza in Port Townsend? Thought there would be something about it in the recent issue of SCA, but no luck. But the magazine did have some good articles about M-boats.
Steve
M-15 # 335
Hi Blair With high ballast displacement ratios in the Montgomery's and Sage's it's not likely to capsize them. Sure, any boat can get knocked down but boats with proper ballast (generally) will pop back up. The rule that Lyle Hess mentioned years ago is 30%. Our boats are up in the 40% range. Some Potters are 12% and that's why they turn turtle. Be well Bob M Boats 949-489-8227 Sent from my iPad
On Jan 26, 2017, at 1:16 PM, Blair Ashworth <blairashworth@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi M sailors, I've been watching a few videos about the SCAMP, which is a small wooden boat designed by John Welsford. Seems to be a very stable boat and they did an interesting Intentional Capsize with the boat to judge stability, safety, and self-rescue.
I'm sure many of you may have seen the short videos - if not, here are a couple links for reference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du9lvJNVqnk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRZNWAkdkXM
My question as an M15 owner is if this type of test or intentional capsize and recovery has been done on an M15 or M17 or similar boats? I would suspect it would be much harder to intentionally capsize an M17, but an M15 seems like this test could be done.
I come from a dinghy sailing background where capsizes are part of the experience and sure adds to your confidence when you know what will happen in a capsize and that you can recover as needed. So that is what got me thinking along these lines. I know I've read that capsizes and knockdowns are very rare for M15s but thought this may be a good summer time type of test/experiment.
If not done intentionally, any stories of capsizes and recovery out there? I read the one on msog.org, but hadn't heard of any others. That link for reference is: http://msog.org/how-to/how-to_flotjet.cfm#knockdown
Thanks for any insights. Blair M15 #126
participants (6)
-
Bert Hall -
Blair Ashworth -
Bob Eeg -
Dave Scobie -
Steve Trapp -
Willy Gorrissen