Heaving to in an M15 with Mainsail only
Most sailors know, or should know, how to heave to in a boat like the M15 by, just tacking, backwinding the jib, setting the tiller to the same side of the boat as the boom, sheeting in the boom slightly, and letting the boat lie about 50 degrees off the wind. But the other day out in the middle of the lake in winds 5 to 10, I decided to practice lowering and then raising the jib, with the boat facing into the wind. After I lowered the jib, standing in the companionway, with the tiller unattended, and allowed to move about on its own, and the mainsail sheeted so that the boom had enough slack to be about 45 degrees of the centerline of the boat, I noticed the boat went into a predictable pattern. First the mainsail would fill with air, bringing the bow through the wind till where it lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the wind. The bow would then come to a stop and then slowly the bow would climb back up towards the wind, and then through it - tacking in other words - till the boom lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the other side of the boat, where it again came to a stop. This pattern repeated over and over, the boat continually tacking back and forth, from a close reach on one side, over to a close reach on the other. So I thought to ask the forum, Is this a known phenomenon? Does it have a name? Is it just a form of heaving to in a sloop when the jib sail is down but the main is up? It seemed like a good thing to know about my Monty, as the pattern is fairly predictable, even in winds of 5 to 10, and is another way to take a break and not have to tend the tiller, for when the jib sail is down. Thanks for any insights! - Brad, 1987 M-15 ("Half Monty")
IMO the boat is just tacking and in the wind/Sea plus where you stood found a balance point that she was predictable in behavior. :: Dave Scobie :: M6'8" #650 :: SV SWALLOW - sv-swallow.com :: former owner M17 #375 SWEET PEA - m17-375.com :: former owner M15 #288 SCRED - www.freewebs.com/m15-named-scred/ On Wed, Sep 11, 2019, 9:29 AM brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com> wrote:
Most sailors know, or should know, how to heave to in a boat like the M15 by, just tacking, backwinding the jib, setting the tiller to the same side of the boat as the boom, sheeting in the boom slightly, and letting the boat lie about 50 degrees off the wind.
But the other day out in the middle of the lake in winds 5 to 10, I decided to practice lowering and then raising the jib, with the boat facing into the wind.
After I lowered the jib, standing in the companionway, with the tiller unattended, and allowed to move about on its own, and the mainsail sheeted so that the boom had enough slack to be about 45 degrees of the centerline of the boat, I noticed the boat went into a predictable pattern.
First the mainsail would fill with air, bringing the bow through the wind till where it lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the wind. The bow would then come to a stop and then slowly the bow would climb back up towards the wind, and then through it - tacking in other words - till the boom lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the other side of the boat, where it again came to a stop. This pattern repeated over and over, the boat continually tacking back and forth, from a close reach on one side, over to a close reach on the other.
So I thought to ask the forum, Is this a known phenomenon? Does it have a name? Is it just a form of heaving to in a sloop when the jib sail is down but the main is up?
It seemed like a good thing to know about my Monty, as the pattern is fairly predictable, even in winds of 5 to 10, and is another way to take a break and not have to tend the tiller, for when the jib sail is down.
Thanks for any insights!
- Brad, 1987 M-15 ("Half Monty")
is it repeatable..? try it again in different winds and maybe limit the tiller movement or the main movement.. see if you can sit on one side and produce the same gen effect. would be nice thing to know.. At your service Larry Pegg larrypegg@aol.com -----Original Message----- From: brad kurlancheek <bkurlancheek@gmail.com> To: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, Sep 11, 2019 9:29 am Subject: M_Boats: Heaving to in an M15 with Mainsail only Most sailors know, or should know, how to heave to in a boat like the M15 by, just tacking, backwinding the jib, setting the tiller to the same side of the boat as the boom, sheeting in the boom slightly, and letting the boat lie about 50 degrees off the wind. But the other day out in the middle of the lake in winds 5 to 10, I decided to practice lowering and then raising the jib, with the boat facing into the wind. After I lowered the jib, standing in the companionway, with the tiller unattended, and allowed to move about on its own, and the mainsail sheeted so that the boom had enough slack to be about 45 degrees of the centerline of the boat, I noticed the boat went into a predictable pattern. First the mainsail would fill with air, bringing the bow through the wind till where it lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the wind. The bow would then come to a stop and then slowly the bow would climb back up towards the wind, and then through it - tacking in other words - till the boom lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the other side of the boat, where it again came to a stop. This pattern repeated over and over, the boat continually tacking back and forth, from a close reach on one side, over to a close reach on the other. So I thought to ask the forum, Is this a known phenomenon? Does it have a name? Is it just a form of heaving to in a sloop when the jib sail is down but the main is up? It seemed like a good thing to know about my Monty, as the pattern is fairly predictable, even in winds of 5 to 10, and is another way to take a break and not have to tend the tiller, for when the jib sail is down. Thanks for any insights! - Brad, 1987 M-15 ("Half Monty")
The book "Storm Tactics" by Lin & Larry Pardey is focused on using this method of heaving to under main alone for weathering serious ocean storms in a small boat. They recommend using a para-anchor offset to one side of the bow to augment this in extreme conditions, as it creates a region of turbulence that will break waves before they hit the boat. I've also played around with these techniques on my M15, and even carry a small army surplus supplies parachute plus a snatch block and swivel, but I haven't yet had the chance to try deploying it in rough conditions. Without a winch on board the M15, I expect it could be challenging to recover the parachute. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "bkurlancheek" <bkurlancheek@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 9:28:18 AM Subject: M_Boats: Heaving to in an M15 with Mainsail only Most sailors know, or should know, how to heave to in a boat like the M15 by, just tacking, backwinding the jib, setting the tiller to the same side of the boat as the boom, sheeting in the boom slightly, and letting the boat lie about 50 degrees off the wind. But the other day out in the middle of the lake in winds 5 to 10, I decided to practice lowering and then raising the jib, with the boat facing into the wind. After I lowered the jib, standing in the companionway, with the tiller unattended, and allowed to move about on its own, and the mainsail sheeted so that the boom had enough slack to be about 45 degrees of the centerline of the boat, I noticed the boat went into a predictable pattern. First the mainsail would fill with air, bringing the bow through the wind till where it lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the wind. The bow would then come to a stop and then slowly the bow would climb back up towards the wind, and then through it - tacking in other words - till the boom lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the other side of the boat, where it again came to a stop. This pattern repeated over and over, the boat continually tacking back and forth, from a close reach on one side, over to a close reach on the other. So I thought to ask the forum, Is this a known phenomenon? Does it have a name? Is it just a form of heaving to in a sloop when the jib sail is down but the main is up? It seemed like a good thing to know about my Monty, as the pattern is fairly predictable, even in winds of 5 to 10, and is another way to take a break and not have to tend the tiller, for when the jib sail is down. Thanks for any insights! - Brad, 1987 M-15 ("Half Monty")
Correction- I missed that you were leaving the tiller untied and allowing the boat to tack. The Pardey's method involves tying the tiller slightly to leeward, so the boat oscillates between sailing upwind and stalling, but stays on the same tack. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "casioqv" <casioqv@usermail.com> To: "bkurlancheek" <bkurlancheek@gmail.com>, "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 2:44:58 PM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Heaving to in an M15 with Mainsail only The book "Storm Tactics" by Lin & Larry Pardey is focused on using this method of heaving to under main alone for weathering serious ocean storms in a small boat. They recommend using a para-anchor offset to one side of the bow to augment this in extreme conditions, as it creates a region of turbulence that will break waves before they hit the boat. I've also played around with these techniques on my M15, and even carry a small army surplus supplies parachute plus a snatch block and swivel, but I haven't yet had the chance to try deploying it in rough conditions. Without a winch on board the M15, I expect it could be challenging to recover the parachute. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "bkurlancheek" <bkurlancheek@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2019 9:28:18 AM Subject: M_Boats: Heaving to in an M15 with Mainsail only Most sailors know, or should know, how to heave to in a boat like the M15 by, just tacking, backwinding the jib, setting the tiller to the same side of the boat as the boom, sheeting in the boom slightly, and letting the boat lie about 50 degrees off the wind. But the other day out in the middle of the lake in winds 5 to 10, I decided to practice lowering and then raising the jib, with the boat facing into the wind. After I lowered the jib, standing in the companionway, with the tiller unattended, and allowed to move about on its own, and the mainsail sheeted so that the boom had enough slack to be about 45 degrees of the centerline of the boat, I noticed the boat went into a predictable pattern. First the mainsail would fill with air, bringing the bow through the wind till where it lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the wind. The bow would then come to a stop and then slowly the bow would climb back up towards the wind, and then through it - tacking in other words - till the boom lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the other side of the boat, where it again came to a stop. This pattern repeated over and over, the boat continually tacking back and forth, from a close reach on one side, over to a close reach on the other. So I thought to ask the forum, Is this a known phenomenon? Does it have a name? Is it just a form of heaving to in a sloop when the jib sail is down but the main is up? It seemed like a good thing to know about my Monty, as the pattern is fairly predictable, even in winds of 5 to 10, and is another way to take a break and not have to tend the tiller, for when the jib sail is down. Thanks for any insights! - Brad, 1987 M-15 ("Half Monty")
That's also what I was describing, but way more concise! :-) John On 9/11/19 5:53 PM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote:
Correction- I missed that you were leaving the tiller untied and allowing the boat to tack. The Pardey's method involves tying the tiller slightly to leeward, so the boat oscillates between sailing upwind and stalling, but stays on the same tack.
Sincerely, Tyler
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On 9/11/19 2:44 PM, casioqv@usermail.com wrote: ...
I've also played around with these techniques on my M15, and even carry a small army surplus supplies parachute plus a snatch block and swivel, but I haven't yet had the chance to try deploying it in rough conditions. Without a winch on board the M15, I expect it could be challenging to recover the parachute.
You'd just be pulling your boat to the chute... like pulling it to the anchor by the rode, to raise anchor. If you can do that in heavy weather, the chute will be similar. It's just a sort of also-moving anchor. And of course you want to lift it up from an edge so it's not a huge bucket of water you're trying to raise. Some really interesting stuff in this manual for a brand of drogue (stern drag rather than bow): https://www.defender.com/pdf/delta_drougemanual.pdf cheers, John -- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I wrote about this a couple years ago for my M17. Before I got my furling/reefing jib, I was playing with single handed headsail changes. I was able to get my M17 to sail itself rather inefficiently, but consistently, to windward while I went forward and messed with headsails. The setup is: Tiller set to turn her gently to windward. Mainsheet set a bit too loose for a close reach; it would luff before getting close enough to get in irons. Jib dropped, and ideally downhauled (I had rigged a simple downhaul to cockpit). At the least, jib sheets loose and jib flapping in wind. The cycle was (starting from having some way to windward): She would head up slowly because of how the tiller was set. Main would start to luff and lose power; boat would lose way. Thus the rudder would lose effectiveness. The wind would push her bow back off the wind. As she fell off, the main would start to catch a bit and give some power. As she picked up way, the rudder came into effect. Repeat from first line above... Sort of "scalloping" to windward, and also moving to leeward more than usual (be sure to have extra leeway if trying this). NO tacking in this case - as above, main set to lose power well before getting into irons or risking coming about. And, no full-on sailing - tiller would start bringing her back to windward before she fell off enough to catch full wind in mainsail. I first stayed in the cockpit, hands off, for long enough to see it work for several cycles - or tweak tiller and/or mainsheet until it did. Then I'd go forward, and pause before doing anything with headsail to make sure my weight shift didn't mess up the situation. On the M17 this didn't take a lot of finesse. My first attempt at tiller and mainsheet adjustment was about close enough. I might have tweaked it a little and then it was good to go. YMMV on an M15 where moving from cockpit to bow is a bigger relative weight shift. When I have her trimmed for decent sailing, I do see non-trivial effect from moving myself far fore or aft. But in this "sloppy sailing" trim mode, it didn't cause a problem, she kept scalloping along. I don't know if this would be called "hove to on mainsail" or not. But if for some reason you need to do something like this, it can work. Definitely try it out in moderate conditions and practice ahead of time though! What would scare me about the situation you describe, tiller free, is that if the mainsheet and/or tiller hung up on anything on one of those tacks, it could suddenly be a very bad situation and I'm in a very bad place to deal with it quickly. cheers, John On 9/11/19 9:28 AM, brad kurlancheek wrote:
Most sailors know, or should know, how to heave to in a boat like the M15 by, just tacking, backwinding the jib, setting the tiller to the same side of the boat as the boom, sheeting in the boom slightly, and letting the boat lie about 50 degrees off the wind.
But the other day out in the middle of the lake in winds 5 to 10, I decided to practice lowering and then raising the jib, with the boat facing into the wind.
After I lowered the jib, standing in the companionway, with the tiller unattended, and allowed to move about on its own, and the mainsail sheeted so that the boom had enough slack to be about 45 degrees of the centerline of the boat, I noticed the boat went into a predictable pattern.
First the mainsail would fill with air, bringing the bow through the wind till where it lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the wind. The bow would then come to a stop and then slowly the bow would climb back up towards the wind, and then through it - tacking in other words - till the boom lay about 60 to 70 degrees off the other side of the boat, where it again came to a stop. This pattern repeated over and over, the boat continually tacking back and forth, from a close reach on one side, over to a close reach on the other.
So I thought to ask the forum, Is this a known phenomenon? Does it have a name? Is it just a form of heaving to in a sloop when the jib sail is down but the main is up?
It seemed like a good thing to know about my Monty, as the pattern is fairly predictable, even in winds of 5 to 10, and is another way to take a break and not have to tend the tiller, for when the jib sail is down.
Thanks for any insights!
- Brad, 1987 M-15 ("Half Monty")
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (5)
-
brad kurlancheek -
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Dave Scobie -
John Schinnerer -
Larry Pegg