Re: M_Boats: Sheet to tiller steering
Dear Connie, I'm sure you are familiar with the adage : "tyranny of the tiller"" used to describe the long hours required at the helm to cover distances. Since all of my sailing has been on large lakes, self steering has never really been a priority. My M23 has a Navik windvane, which works like magic, but I have never really used it for a long voyage (yet). It is fascinating to watch it in action. I'm downsizing back to my M17, which has prompted all these questions about sheet to tiller steering. As always, thank you for your knowledgeable input. Bones ____________________________________________________________ Affordable Wireless Plans Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $14.95 per month! www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216
Speaking of windvanes, James Wharram (of Wharram catamaran fame) has a low-cost build-it-yourself wind vane design available: https://www.wharram.com/site/catalog/building-plans/self-steering/windvane What I'm not sure of is whether this will work on a monohull. I think it will functionally, and, where/how to mount on something as small as an M17 might be an issue. Probably would need to hang it off the transom as the more expensive manufactured vanes do. It definitely works, on Wharram's boats anyhow - Rory McDougall has used it on his Tiki 21 on transatlantic crossings, there's at least one video I've seen where he has the vane working on a brisk reach in the north Atlantic. http://wharram.eu/live/article.php/20100414170141573 One of the old-timers in the Hilo sailing club, who used to be a delivery skipper among other things, was heard to say: "My favorite kind of sailing is when I don't have to touch anything for three weeks." cheers, John S. On 11/17/2016 10:49 AM, bownez@juno.com wrote:
Dear Connie,
I'm sure you are familiar with the adage : "tyranny of the tiller"" used to describe the long hours required at the helm to cover distances.
Since all of my sailing has been on large lakes, self steering has never really been a priority.
My M23 has a Navik windvane, which works like magic, but I have never really used it for a long voyage (yet). It is fascinating to watch it in action.
I'm downsizing back to my M17, which has prompted all these questions about sheet to tiller steering.
As always, thank you for your knowledgeable input.
Bones
____________________________________________________________ Affordable Wireless Plans Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $14.95 per month! www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
On 11/17/2016 1:25 PM, John Schinnerer wrote: Hi John, Back in 1968 to 73, we would have our Tripp-Lentsch 29 trucked from the lake in Germany to the Italian Adriatic coast for our vacation cruising. Then it was; across the Adriatic to Yugoslavia and explore the island chain south of the Istrian Peninsula. These crossings were anywhere from 40 to 65 NM, one way. That's when I got interested in self steering. The British had a windvane design that I built and installed it on our boat and also used it on a friend's 35-footer (sloops). It worked very nicely after you learned how to set it up, and it held a course about +/- 5 degrees after proper adjustment. The major problem with this system was that the cockpit was crisscrossed with all the various operating lines; plus the stern pulpit was filled with the windvane. We lived with that solution for several years until I read John Letcher's book on sheet-to-tiller steering. This reduced weight at the stern (heavy lead weights to counterbalance the wind vane itself) and eliminated all the clutter of the lines. Yes, it will work for keel boats; and my guess is that Whaarram's version is just about the same as the one I built (and he probably got it from the same British sailing magazine as I did) Ciao, Connie
Speaking of windvanes, James Wharram (of Wharram catamaran fame) has a low-cost build-it-yourself wind vane design available: https://www.wharram.com/site/catalog/building-plans/self-steering/windvane
What I'm not sure of is whether this will work on a monohull. I think it will functionally, and, where/how to mount on something as small as an M17 might be an issue. Probably would need to hang it off the transom as the more expensive manufactured vanes do.
It definitely works, on Wharram's boats anyhow - Rory McDougall has used it on his Tiki 21 on transatlantic crossings, there's at least one video I've seen where he has the vane working on a brisk reach in the north Atlantic. http://wharram.eu/live/article.php/20100414170141573
One of the old-timers in the Hilo sailing club, who used to be a delivery skipper among other things, was heard to say: "My favorite kind of sailing is when I don't have to touch anything for three weeks."
cheers, John S.
On 11/17/2016 10:49 AM, bownez@juno.com wrote:
Dear Connie,
I'm sure you are familiar with the adage : "tyranny of the tiller"" used to describe the long hours required at the helm to cover distances.
Since all of my sailing has been on large lakes, self steering has never really been a priority.
My M23 has a Navik windvane, which works like magic, but I have never really used it for a long voyage (yet). It is fascinating to watch it in action.
I'm downsizing back to my M17, which has prompted all these questions about sheet to tiller steering.
As always, thank you for your knowledgeable input.
Bones
____________________________________________________________ Affordable Wireless Plans Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $14.95 per month! www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216
I actually built a wind vane self steering system for my M17. The original was designed after Letcher's #5, using an upright rotating wing type vane. I'm not sure how he found out about but I was contacted by the late Walt Murray who asked to see pictures of it and immediately responded back to me "it won't work". He had me replace the upright wing with an upright vane and the performance improved some, but I was still using the servo rudder hooked to the actual rudder. So Walt had me replace that with a rudder head mount and that worked far better. By then, he had brought Jan Alkema into the mix and the two of them helped me fine tune it so it worked really well. This is a video of the rudder heat mount (RHM) as it works to control the rudder. The benefit of this system is the servo oar turns in the same direction as the rudder, so both of them are controlling vs. going in opposite directions as most servo rudders do. It was powerful enough I could barely turn the rudder to change course using just the tiller alone. It generated that much leverage. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO4kVRJ3Rb8 The ultimate vane to control it would have been the Upside Down vane........it works like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0RqkI9cu-4 The magic of the UDS is it feathers into the wind to avoid oversteering. Although the vane system is no longer mounted on the boat, I still have all that. It steered far better than I ever could. This is Jan Alkema's boat with RHM and USD vane controlling. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-2GxsrSmo0 Having said all that, sheet to tiller works well too and is a whole lot simpler. If I was going to suggest a self steering system for out boats, this would be it. And for anyone doing any distance cruising at all, I'd suggest you get one. On Nov 17, 2016, at 1:25 PM, John Schinnerer wrote:
Speaking of windvanes, James Wharram (of Wharram catamaran fame) has a low-cost build-it-yourself wind vane design available: https://www.wharram.com/site/catalog/building-plans/self-steering/windvane
What I'm not sure of is whether this will work on a monohull. I think it will functionally, and, where/how to mount on something as small as an M17 might be an issue. Probably would need to hang it off the transom as the more expensive manufactured vanes do.
It definitely works, on Wharram's boats anyhow - Rory McDougall has used it on his Tiki 21 on transatlantic crossings, there's at least one video I've seen where he has the vane working on a brisk reach in the north Atlantic. http://wharram.eu/live/article.php/20100414170141573
One of the old-timers in the Hilo sailing club, who used to be a delivery skipper among other things, was heard to say: "My favorite kind of sailing is when I don't have to touch anything for three weeks."
cheers, John S.
On 11/17/2016 10:49 AM, bownez@juno.com wrote:
Dear Connie,
I'm sure you are familiar with the adage : "tyranny of the tiller"" used to describe the long hours required at the helm to cover distances.
Since all of my sailing has been on large lakes, self steering has never really been a priority.
My M23 has a Navik windvane, which works like magic, but I have never really used it for a long voyage (yet). It is fascinating to watch it in action.
I'm downsizing back to my M17, which has prompted all these questions about sheet to tiller steering.
As always, thank you for your knowledgeable input.
Bones
____________________________________________________________ Affordable Wireless Plans Set up is easy. Get online in minutes. Starting at only $14.95 per month! www.netzero.net?refcd=nzmem0216
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
participants (4)
-
bownez＠juno.com -
Conbert Benneck -
Howard Audsley -
John Schinnerer