Alright Dave, here’s a question related to one of my winter projects. I’ll be replacing the stays (friend’s story of loosing mast first day of a San Juan cruise convinced me new wire and the peace of mind it would bring are worth it). I’ve contemplated adding a adjusting lever to the forestay to make setting up and tensioning the rig even easier. Curious if the M boat hive mind has any opinions on a) whether a forestay lever is a good addition on an m15, and b) if there is a specific one folks would recommend. Here are the two that have caught my eye: https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm Or https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherman-johnson--small-7-hole-quick-release... (more holes but working load of only 500 lbs) Thanks for any feedback! Alex
A hyfield lever would be strong enough. Whatever quick release you use, think about swaging a cable above the quick release and end it with a stout snap shackle. This can be quickly attached and removed to a second regular shackle through another hole in the stemhead fitting on the Monty. That is a good backup for any "quick release" arrangement. It will allow some slack in the rig but it will save your mast until you can correct your basic setup. On my Monty 17, 1977 model I have a split backstay that starts about 7 feet above the deck and ends each leg on a chain plate at each end of the transom. I use a double ended block with a block and tackle attached to draw down the double block, in effect squeezing both back stays together to tension the rig. I need to tension it since I left enough slack in the standing rigging to easily snap the quick release shackle onto the stemhead fitting when I raise the mast. It doesn't take much slack to feed the loose end of a snap shackle through the regular shackle set up there. It is a simple matter after that to downhaul on the double block to pinch the two sides of the split backstay together for proper rig tension. The 17 has a masthead rig so all the standing rigging ends at the mast head. There is little reason to apply any pressure to the rig to improve sail set like would be necessary is a 7/8 or 3/4 rig. Ain't it fun messing about in boats? On Sun, Oct 11, 2020 at 11:39 AM Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Alright Dave, here’s a question related to one of my winter projects. I’ll be replacing the stays (friend’s story of loosing mast first day of a San Juan cruise convinced me new wire and the peace of mind it would bring are worth it). I’ve contemplated adding a adjusting lever to the forestay to make setting up and tensioning the rig even easier. Curious if the M boat hive mind has any opinions on a) whether a forestay lever is a good addition on an m15, and b) if there is a specific one folks would recommend. Here are the two that have caught my eye:
https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm
Or
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherman-johnson--small-7-hole-quick-release... (more holes but working load of only 500 lbs)
Thanks for any feedback!
Alex
I installed new Shrouds and quick releases on my M-17. Sorry to say I am not at all happy with them. Worst is I can’t seem to adjust them as I want. May Go back. Having said that I think one on the forestay should work very good. Brand name I don’t know. I bought them as a package. Charlie Sent from my iPad
On Oct 11, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Alright Dave, here’s a question related to one of my winter projects. I’ll be replacing the stays (friend’s story of loosing mast first day of a San Juan cruise convinced me new wire and the peace of mind it would bring are worth it). I’ve contemplated adding a adjusting lever to the forestay to make setting up and tensioning the rig even easier. Curious if the M boat hive mind has any opinions on a) whether a forestay lever is a good addition on an m15, and b) if there is a specific one folks would recommend. Here are the two that have caught my eye:
https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm
Or
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherman-johnson--small-7-hole-quick-release... (more holes but working load of only 500 lbs)
Thanks for any feedback!
Alex
I replaced the forstay and shrouds on my M15 from Furling and Rigging in Newport Beach CA They do a fast and great job. Even got spares that are in the boat all the time. Pete WinterSky Chinook Breeze Sent from my iPhone
On Oct 11, 2020, at 13:44, Charlie via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> wrote:
I installed new Shrouds and quick releases on my M-17. Sorry to say I am not at all happy with them. Worst is I can’t seem to adjust them as I want. May Go back. Having said that I think one on the forestay should work very good. Brand name I don’t know. I bought them as a package.
Charlie
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 11, 2020, at 12:38 PM, Alex Conley <conley.alex@gmail.com> wrote:
Alright Dave, here’s a question related to one of my winter projects. I’ll be replacing the stays (friend’s story of loosing mast first day of a San Juan cruise convinced me new wire and the peace of mind it would bring are worth it). I’ve contemplated adding a adjusting lever to the forestay to make setting up and tensioning the rig even easier. Curious if the M boat hive mind has any opinions on a) whether a forestay lever is a good addition on an m15, and b) if there is a specific one folks would recommend. Here are the two that have caught my eye:
https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm
Or
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherman-johnson--small-7-hole-quick-release... (more holes but working load of only 500 lbs)
Thanks for any feedback!
Alex
This might work on an M17, but the M15 is designed to have a slightly loose rig... using a tensioner like this will prevent the center of effort from raking the mast aft upwind automatically as it should, and could damage the cabin top. I re-rigged my M15 using 316 wire and Hayn Hi-Mod fittings, which can be done at home with just a crescent wrench, and allows me to re-rig every few years by just buying new wire. For stay adjusters, I used 10 hole Hobie Cat shroud adjusters like this: https://westcoastsailing.net/hobie-shroud-adjuster-10-hole/ My Spyderco Salt (a gift from Sal and Gail- Thanks!!) slides right into the shroud adjuster, and makes a great handle for adding a small amount of tension when putting the pin in... no need for a leveraged adjuster. Sincerely, Tyler ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Conley" <conley.alex@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:38:22 AM Subject: M_Boats: Forestay Adjusting levers? Alright Dave, here’s a question related to one of my winter projects. I’ll be replacing the stays (friend’s story of loosing mast first day of a San Juan cruise convinced me new wire and the peace of mind it would bring are worth it). I’ve contemplated adding a adjusting lever to the forestay to make setting up and tensioning the rig even easier. Curious if the M boat hive mind has any opinions on a) whether a forestay lever is a good addition on an m15, and b) if there is a specific one folks would recommend. Here are the two that have caught my eye: https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm Or https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherman-johnson--small-7-hole-quick-release... (more holes but working load of only 500 lbs) Thanks for any feedback! Alex
Thanks Tyler, but can't the tensioner simply be set with the forestay at the same tension/length as you’d do by hand to keep the rig loose (it’s got a pin to lock it closed, so I wouldn’t expect it to open)? Or is there a reason it would always over tighten the rig? Alex On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:30 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
This might work on an M17, but the M15 is designed to have a slightly loose rig... using a tensioner like this will prevent the center of effort from raking the mast aft upwind automatically as it should, and could damage the cabin top.
I re-rigged my M15 using 316 wire and Hayn Hi-Mod fittings, which can be done at home with just a crescent wrench, and allows me to re-rig every few years by just buying new wire. For stay adjusters, I used 10 hole Hobie Cat shroud adjusters like this: https://westcoastsailing.net/hobie-shroud-adjuster-10-hole/
My Spyderco Salt (a gift from Sal and Gail- Thanks!!) slides right into the shroud adjuster, and makes a great handle for adding a small amount of tension when putting the pin in... no need for a leveraged adjuster.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Conley" <conley.alex@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:38:22 AM Subject: M_Boats: Forestay Adjusting levers?
Alright Dave, here’s a question related to one of my winter projects. I’ll be replacing the stays (friend’s story of loosing mast first day of a San Juan cruise convinced me new wire and the peace of mind it would bring are worth it). I’ve contemplated adding a adjusting lever to the forestay to make setting up and tensioning the rig even easier. Curious if the M boat hive mind has any opinions on a) whether a forestay lever is a good addition on an m15, and b) if there is a specific one folks would recommend. Here are the two that have caught my eye:
https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm
Or
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherman-johnson--small-7-hole-quick-release... (more holes but working load of only 500 lbs)
Thanks for any feedback!
Alex
A quick release is just that, if that's what you're talking about - a way to quickly provide or remove slack. When it's "open" you have plenty extra slack, for whatever you need slack for. When it's "closed" you have whatever tension, heavy to light to slightly loose, that you set the adjustment to have. So yes to your question as I understand it - there's no requirement that a quick release lever type device have high (or any) tension when "closed." Just make sure it has a locking pin so that when it is closed, if the tension is light or slightly slack even, that it won't flip open by itself. cheers, John On 10/12/20 7:25 AM, Alex Conley wrote:
Thanks Tyler, but can't the tensioner simply be set with the forestay at the same tension/length as you’d do by hand to keep the rig loose (it’s got a pin to lock it closed, so I wouldn’t expect it to open)? Or is there a reason it would always over tighten the rig?
Alex
On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:30 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
This might work on an M17, but the M15 is designed to have a slightly loose rig... using a tensioner like this will prevent the center of effort from raking the mast aft upwind automatically as it should, and could damage the cabin top.
I re-rigged my M15 using 316 wire and Hayn Hi-Mod fittings, which can be done at home with just a crescent wrench, and allows me to re-rig every few years by just buying new wire. For stay adjusters, I used 10 hole Hobie Cat shroud adjusters like this: https://westcoastsailing.net/hobie-shroud-adjuster-10-hole/
My Spyderco Salt (a gift from Sal and Gail- Thanks!!) slides right into the shroud adjuster, and makes a great handle for adding a small amount of tension when putting the pin in... no need for a leveraged adjuster.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Conley" <conley.alex@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:38:22 AM Subject: M_Boats: Forestay Adjusting levers?
Alright Dave, here’s a question related to one of my winter projects. I’ll be replacing the stays (friend’s story of loosing mast first day of a San Juan cruise convinced me new wire and the peace of mind it would bring are worth it). I’ve contemplated adding a adjusting lever to the forestay to make setting up and tensioning the rig even easier. Curious if the M boat hive mind has any opinions on a) whether a forestay lever is a good addition on an m15, and b) if there is a specific one folks would recommend. Here are the two that have caught my eye:
https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm
Or
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherman-johnson--small-7-hole-quick-release... (more holes but working load of only 500 lbs)
Thanks for any feedback!
Alex
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
John- I never felt the need to tighten the forestay that much; I liked it loose enough to easily hook it up by hand with no adjusting needed. it sails best with a bit of slack, just like most boats with that type of rig. Tune it (MAST RAKE) for best speed upwind and the slack will let the mast move a bit forward off the wind. jerry ________________________________ From: montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com> on behalf of John Schinnerer via montgomery_boats <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 9:09 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Subject: Re: M_Boats: Forestay Adjusting levers? A quick release is just that, if that's what you're talking about - a way to quickly provide or remove slack. When it's "open" you have plenty extra slack, for whatever you need slack for. When it's "closed" you have whatever tension, heavy to light to slightly loose, that you set the adjustment to have. So yes to your question as I understand it - there's no requirement that a quick release lever type device have high (or any) tension when "closed." Just make sure it has a locking pin so that when it is closed, if the tension is light or slightly slack even, that it won't flip open by itself. cheers, John On 10/12/20 7:25 AM, Alex Conley wrote:
Thanks Tyler, but can't the tensioner simply be set with the forestay at the same tension/length as you’d do by hand to keep the rig loose (it’s got a pin to lock it closed, so I wouldn’t expect it to open)? Or is there a reason it would always over tighten the rig?
Alex
On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:30 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
This might work on an M17, but the M15 is designed to have a slightly loose rig... using a tensioner like this will prevent the center of effort from raking the mast aft upwind automatically as it should, and could damage the cabin top.
I re-rigged my M15 using 316 wire and Hayn Hi-Mod fittings, which can be done at home with just a crescent wrench, and allows me to re-rig every few years by just buying new wire. For stay adjusters, I used 10 hole Hobie Cat shroud adjusters like this: https://westcoastsailing.net/hobie-shroud-adjuster-10-hole/
My Spyderco Salt (a gift from Sal and Gail- Thanks!!) slides right into the shroud adjuster, and makes a great handle for adding a small amount of tension when putting the pin in... no need for a leveraged adjuster.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Conley" <conley.alex@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:38:22 AM Subject: M_Boats: Forestay Adjusting levers?
Alright Dave, here’s a question related to one of my winter projects. I’ll be replacing the stays (friend’s story of loosing mast first day of a San Juan cruise convinced me new wire and the peace of mind it would bring are worth it). I’ve contemplated adding a adjusting lever to the forestay to make setting up and tensioning the rig even easier. Curious if the M boat hive mind has any opinions on a) whether a forestay lever is a good addition on an m15, and b) if there is a specific one folks would recommend. Here are the two that have caught my eye:
https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm
Or
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherman-johnson--small-7-hole-quick-release... (more holes but working load of only 500 lbs)
Thanks for any feedback!
Alex
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Hi Alex, Yes, you could absolutely do that, but if it's loose enough for optimal sailing performance (see the other e-mail from Jerry), you'll find no reason to slack it when raising or lowering the mast... so it would just serve as a simple shroud adjuster but slightly more expensive, heavy, and complex. There is a safety advantage to having simpler rig connections: it's less likely to unexpectedly fail or catch on things, it's easier to inspect before each sail, and you can replace it more often before it fails from corrosion, due to the low cost. Sincerely, Tyler '81 M15 #157 S/V Defiant ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Conley" <conley.alex@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2020 7:25:09 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Forestay Adjusting levers? Thanks Tyler, but can't the tensioner simply be set with the forestay at the same tension/length as you’d do by hand to keep the rig loose (it’s got a pin to lock it closed, so I wouldn’t expect it to open)? Or is there a reason it would always over tighten the rig? Alex On Mon, Oct 12, 2020 at 5:30 AM <casioqv@usermail.com> wrote:
This might work on an M17, but the M15 is designed to have a slightly loose rig... using a tensioner like this will prevent the center of effort from raking the mast aft upwind automatically as it should, and could damage the cabin top.
I re-rigged my M15 using 316 wire and Hayn Hi-Mod fittings, which can be done at home with just a crescent wrench, and allows me to re-rig every few years by just buying new wire. For stay adjusters, I used 10 hole Hobie Cat shroud adjusters like this: https://westcoastsailing.net/hobie-shroud-adjuster-10-hole/
My Spyderco Salt (a gift from Sal and Gail- Thanks!!) slides right into the shroud adjuster, and makes a great handle for adding a small amount of tension when putting the pin in... no need for a leveraged adjuster.
Sincerely, Tyler
----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Conley" <conley.alex@gmail.com> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" < montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, October 11, 2020 9:38:22 AM Subject: M_Boats: Forestay Adjusting levers?
Alright Dave, here’s a question related to one of my winter projects. I’ll be replacing the stays (friend’s story of loosing mast first day of a San Juan cruise convinced me new wire and the peace of mind it would bring are worth it). I’ve contemplated adding a adjusting lever to the forestay to make setting up and tensioning the rig even easier. Curious if the M boat hive mind has any opinions on a) whether a forestay lever is a good addition on an m15, and b) if there is a specific one folks would recommend. Here are the two that have caught my eye:
https://www.duckworks.com/product-p/sj-14-205.htm
Or
https://www.westmarine.com/buy/c-sherman-johnson--small-7-hole-quick-release... (more holes but working load of only 500 lbs)
Thanks for any feedback!
Alex
participants (7)
-
Alex Conley -
casioqv＠usermail.com -
Charlie -
jerry montgomery -
John Schinnerer -
Peter Zimowsky -
Thomas Buzzi