We set sail on the maiden voyage of our M17, Excursive, this past weekend. We put in at Jackson Lake, WY and had a wonderful 2 day sail on the lake with the Tetons in the back ground. We live within several hours of Jackson Lake so will sail there on weekends until Yellowstone Lake opens for overnight stays. I have several questions for the group. 1. Concerning the front stay and jib, we hank on our jib, it falls short by 12" or so from reaching the top of the mast. I was wondering what others have done to length the tack cringle attachment. This is where the jib attached at the bow deck point. 2. I need to adjust the main sail boom so the sail does not fall out during reefing or taking down the main sail. Any ideas? On our past sail boat, Nimble 20, the boom was fixed to a point on the mast and this was not an issue. In a strong wind, it's a bit unsettling to have the main sail come out of the track. 3. When we were out Saturday we noticed another Montgomery 15 or 17, to far away to id, motoring on the lake. If anyone has info on the owner we would like to know. 4. We have the burp issue as well. 5. As far as accommodations, my wife and I slept in the v-berth and my son, 19 and 6'4, slept in the quarter berth. We all had plenty of room. New boat, first night out there's always plenty of room, we'll see as the summer progresses. Over all the boat is great to sail and handle. David Schuster, MCSE, MCP+I Client Services for Information Technology McKee, Marburger & Fagnant, P.C. 185 South 5th Street Lander, Wyoming 82520 Bus: 307-332-4545 Fax: 307-332-3271 Dir: 307-332-1782 <mailto:davids@mmfcpa.com> davids@mmfcpa.com Get the latest tax information by visiting our web site: <http://www.mmfcpa.com> www.mmfcpa.com CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE This communication may contain information relative to federal tax issues. This communication is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This communication and the information it contains is intended for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. Its contents are confidential. Unauthorized use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact us immediately.
David, On our M17 I had the same question regarding the 110 working jib. I experimented and found it worked best for me when attached at the deck. Also, seeing the boat under sail with the jib attached low looked to funnel air optimally to the mainsail. Sounds like your mast slot is below the boom? On our 17 the mast slot is above the boom and I have the problem of the sail slugs falling out when lowering the main. In either case you can use a sail-stop to keep the mast up (or sail slugs) from falling out. Or, I use 2 wraps of 1/4 shock cord around the mast in a loop like a rubber band. The shock cord can be slid up/down the mast as needed and doesn't fall overboard. I need the 2 - 3 lower sail slugs to come out of the mast track for reefing and the shock cord is flexible enough to reach up and pull them out. When we lived in Idaho Falls we sailed Jackson Lake with our Laguna but never with our Montgomery. Beautiful lake! Randy Graves M17 #410 Post Falls, ID ________________________________________ From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of David Schuster [davids@mmfcpa.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2008 7:54 AM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Maiden Voyage of our M17 We set sail on the maiden voyage of our M17, Excursive, this past weekend. We put in at Jackson Lake, WY and had a wonderful 2 day sail on the lake with the Tetons in the back ground. We live within several hours of Jackson Lake so will sail there on weekends until Yellowstone Lake opens for overnight stays. I have several questions for the group. 1. Concerning the front stay and jib, we hank on our jib, it falls short by 12" or so from reaching the top of the mast. I was wondering what others have done to length the tack cringle attachment. This is where the jib attached at the bow deck point. 2. I need to adjust the main sail boom so the sail does not fall out during reefing or taking down the main sail. Any ideas? On our past sail boat, Nimble 20, the boom was fixed to a point on the mast and this was not an issue. In a strong wind, it's a bit unsettling to have the main sail come out of the track. 3. When we were out Saturday we noticed another Montgomery 15 or 17, to far away to id, motoring on the lake. If anyone has info on the owner we would like to know. 4. We have the burp issue as well. 5. As far as accommodations, my wife and I slept in the v-berth and my son, 19 and 6'4, slept in the quarter berth. We all had plenty of room. New boat, first night out there's always plenty of room, we'll see as the summer progresses. Over all the boat is great to sail and handle. David Schuster, MCSE, MCP+I Client Services for Information Technology McKee, Marburger & Fagnant, P.C. 185 South 5th Street Lander, Wyoming 82520 Bus: 307-332-4545 Fax: 307-332-3271 Dir: 307-332-1782 <mailto:davids@mmfcpa.com> davids@mmfcpa.com Get the latest tax information by visiting our web site: <http://www.mmfcpa.com> www.mmfcpa.com CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE This communication may contain information relative to federal tax issues. This communication is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed by the Internal Revenue Service. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This communication and the information it contains is intended for the person or organization to whom it is addressed. Its contents are confidential. Unauthorized use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact us immediately. _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
David, To keep the boom throat from dropping during reefing etc: You can buy a fitting that fits into the boltrope track below the boom and has a knurled knob to tighten it. Try West Marine to order online. Ron M17 #14 Griselda> From: davids@mmfcpa.com> To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2008 08:54:45 -0600> Subject: M_Boats: Maiden Voyage of our M17> > We set sail on the maiden voyage of our M17, Excursive, this past weekend.> We put in at Jackson Lake, WY and had a wonderful 2 day sail on the lake> with the Tetons in the back ground. We live within several hours of Jackson> Lake so will sail there on weekends until Yellowstone Lake opens for> overnight stays. I have several questions for the group.> > > > 1. Concerning the front stay and jib, we hank on our jib, it falls> short by 12" or so from reaching the top of the mast. I was wondering what> others have done to length the tack cringle attachment. This is where the> jib attached at the bow deck point.> > 2. I need to adjust the main sail boom so the sail does not fall out> during reefing or taking down the main sail. Any ideas? On our past sail> boat, Nimble 20, the boom was fixed to a point on the mast and this was not> an issue. In a strong wind, it's a bit unsettling to have the main sail come> out of the track.> > 3. When we were out Saturday we noticed another Montgomery 15 or 17,> to far away to id, motoring on the lake. If anyone has info on the owner we> would like to know.> > 4. We have the burp issue as well.> > 5. As far as accommodations, my wife and I slept in the v-berth and my> son, 19 and 6'4, slept in the quarter berth. We all had plenty of room. New> boat, first night out there's always plenty of room, we'll see as the summer> progresses.> > > > Over all the boat is great to sail and handle.> > > > David Schuster, MCSE, MCP+I> > Client Services for Information Technology> > McKee, Marburger & Fagnant, P.C.> > 185 South 5th Street> > Lander, Wyoming 82520> > Bus: 307-332-4545> > Fax: 307-332-3271> > Dir: 307-332-1782> > <mailto:davids@mmfcpa.com> davids@mmfcpa.com> > > > Get the latest tax information by visiting our web site:> <http://www.mmfcpa.com> www.mmfcpa.com> > CIRCULAR 230 NOTICE> This communication may contain information relative to federal tax issues.> This communication is not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used> for the purpose of avoiding penalties that may be imposed by the Internal> Revenue Service.> > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE> This communication and the information it contains is intended for the> person or organization to whom it is addressed. Its contents are> confidential. Unauthorized use, copying or disclosure of any of it may be> unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact us> immediately.> > > > _______________________________________________> http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _________________________________________________________________ Earn cashback on your purchases with Live Search - the search that pays you back! http://search.live.com/cashback/?&pkw=form=MIJAAF/publ=HMTGL/crea=earncashba...
On Jun 17, 2008, at 9:54 AM, David Schuster wrote:
1. Concerning the front stay and jib, we hank on our jib, it falls short by 12" or so from reaching the top of the mast. I was wondering what others have done to length the tack cringle attachment. This is where the jib attached at the bow deck point.
My original Reggie Armstrong working jib did the same thing, when attached to the stem head fitting at deck level. In normal weather, probably not a bad thing, as it lowers the center of gravity. I always attach my tack at the deck level. But when the wind pipes up, if you were to take a wave over the bow (I never have), a wave hitting the jib would not be good. For that, you can carry a small pendant of stainless cable, with eyes swaged to both ends, a little shorter than the distance the head falls short of going to the masthead. That would get your jib up off the deck. That way, you can still tension the luff of the jib with the halyard. Tie on the pendant to the sail tack with a shackle. But for that level of weather, you would want a smaller storm jib anyway. BTW, for those who have not seen it, GREAT.....no better than that.....article by Jerry Montgomery on heavy weather sails and setup for an M17. Once wind tops 25 knots, I'm down to a double reefed main and Ullman 65% storm jib with high clew. Just a little blade hanging up there. Still going fast and in control.
I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference relative to water line? I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some help would be grand. Tim and PUFF
From the archives, a number of posts regarding establishing the waterline, use of lasers, and method of laying in the factory boot stripe (by Bob E.):
http://www.msog.org/cfmods/list_archive_results.cfm?first_srch_text=boot%20s... -----Original Message----- From: Tim Diebert <tim@timtone.com> To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2008 7:29 am Subject: M_Boats: Level Reference I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference relative to water line? I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some help would be grand. Tim and PUFF _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Tim, I don't know what has been said by others, but you might borrow one of those inexpensive infrared thermometers and find where the temp changes on the hull. I do it to find the level of heating oil in my tank, but have not tried it myself on less conductive fiberglass. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:29 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: M_Boats: Level Reference I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference relative to water line? I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some help would be grand. Tim and PUFF _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Right....sorry......I actually was wondering if the cockpit sole...the berth decks ....the cockpit benches....or whatever is a level reference. That way I can easily level the boat fore and aft on the trailer and try and have a reference starting point for mast rake. Rather than using a painted on water line that has been tweaked by PO's. I have new standing rig on the boat and am playing with rake. I reckon I have it too far right now but would like to try the recommended point. If the boat is not level....using the halyard method isn't going to work. Unless I am missing something.....then that would make an even dozen for today. Tim -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:38 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference Tim, I don't know what has been said by others, but you might borrow one of those inexpensive infrared thermometers and find where the temp changes on the hull. I do it to find the level of heating oil in my tank, but have not tried it myself on less conductive fiberglass. Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:29 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: M_Boats: Level Reference I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference relative to water line? I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some help would be grand. Tim and PUFF _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats _______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1506 - Release Date: 6/17/2008 4:30 PM
Tim, I also have new standing rigging which is not right and have to have a new backstay made (old rigging was lost when the new stuff was made), so I need to measure with the mast raked correctly. I am going to use the halyard with the boat floating and me not on it to get the correct mast position. I cannot think of another way to do it. I will try and see if the benches or cockpit floor register level with the boat floating. Then if they are they could be used as a reference on the trailer. Robbin Tim Diebert wrote:
Right....sorry......I actually was wondering if the cockpit sole...the berth decks ....the cockpit benches....or whatever is a level reference. That way I can easily level the boat fore and aft on the trailer and try and have a reference starting point for mast rake. Rather than using a painted on water line that has been tweaked by PO's. I have new standing rig on the boat and am playing with rake. I reckon I have it too far right now but would like to try the recommended point. If the boat is not level....using the halyard method isn't going to work. Unless I am missing something.....then that would make an even dozen for today. Tim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:38 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I don't know what has been said by others, but you might borrow one of those inexpensive infrared thermometers and find where the temp changes on the hull. I do it to find the level of heating oil in my tank, but have not tried it myself on less conductive fiberglass.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:29 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: M_Boats: Level Reference
I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference relative to water line?
I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some help would be grand.
Tim and PUFF
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Robbin- the boat will float bow down with nobody in the cockpit. Theoretically the seats should be level with a couple of people fwd in the cockpit. Jerry jerrymontgomery.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:34 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I also have new standing rigging which is not right and have to have a new backstay made (old rigging was lost when the new stuff was made), so I need to measure with the mast raked correctly. I am going to use the halyard with the boat floating and me not on it to get the correct mast position. I cannot think of another way to do it. I will try and see if the benches or cockpit floor register level with the boat floating. Then if they are they could be used as a reference on the trailer.
Robbin
Tim Diebert wrote:
Right....sorry......I actually was wondering if the cockpit sole...the berth decks ....the cockpit benches....or whatever is a level reference. That way I can easily level the boat fore and aft on the trailer and try and have a reference starting point for mast rake. Rather than using a painted on water line that has been tweaked by PO's. I have new standing rig on the boat and am playing with rake. I reckon I have it too far right now but would like to try the recommended point. If the boat is not level....using the halyard method isn't going to work. Unless I am missing something.....then that would make an even dozen for today. Tim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:38 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I don't know what has been said by others, but you might borrow one of those inexpensive infrared thermometers and find where the temp changes on the hull. I do it to find the level of heating oil in my tank, but have not tried it myself on less conductive fiberglass.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:29 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: M_Boats: Level Reference
I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference relative to water line?
I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some help would be grand.
Tim and PUFF
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release Date: 6/18/2008 7:09 AM
Thanks Jerry, made the trip to the marina yesterday and with the longer forestay you produced the mast was raked about 12" back! Much different position than previously where is was straight up if not a bit raked forward. To get the cockpit benches level I had to remove the 7.5hp outboard (glad that thing stays in place all year) and stood forward in the cockpit. The backstay is being shortened at Annapolis rigging so the rig should be in a much better state for the next sail. I have a new main but it was hooking to windward fairly severely along a line at the front of the battens. My sailing book said this would happen if the mast if too far forward so I am hoping this solves the issue with the main. Anyone have any experience with this they could offer? Thanks Robbin jerry wrote:
Robbin- the boat will float bow down with nobody in the cockpit. Theoretically the seats should be level with a couple of people fwd in the cockpit.
Jerry jerrymontgomery.org
----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:34 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I also have new standing rigging which is not right and have to have a new backstay made (old rigging was lost when the new stuff was made), so I need to measure with the mast raked correctly. I am going to use the halyard with the boat floating and me not on it to get the correct mast position. I cannot think of another way to do it. I will try and see if the benches or cockpit floor register level with the boat floating. Then if they are they could be used as a reference on the trailer.
Robbin
Tim Diebert wrote:
Right....sorry......I actually was wondering if the cockpit sole...the
berth
decks ....the cockpit benches....or whatever is a level reference. That way I can easily level the boat fore and aft on the trailer and try
and
have a reference starting point for mast rake. Rather than using a
painted
on water line that has been tweaked by PO's. I have new standing rig on the boat and am playing with rake. I reckon I have it too far right now but would like to try the recommended point.
If
the boat is not level....using the halyard method isn't going to work. Unless I am missing something.....then that would make an even dozen for today. Tim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:38 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I don't know what has been said by others, but you might borrow one of
those
inexpensive infrared thermometers and find where the temp changes on the hull. I do it to find the level of heating oil in my tank, but have not tried it myself on less conductive fiberglass.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:29 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: M_Boats: Level Reference
I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference relative
to
water line?
I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some
help
would be grand.
Tim and PUFF
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release Date: 6/18/2008
7:09 AM
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
Hi Robbin- I don't understand your comment about the main hooking to weather in a line at the fron of the battens. Could you elaborate on thaat? Usually a haard line along the front of the battens comes from the battens being too stiff, or a poorly cut/worn out main, and usually it's the ends of the battens, at the leach, that hook to weather. I foot of rake on the mast doesn't seems too excessive to me, but the definative thing is that the weather helm should be just right. Jerry jerrymontgomery.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 6:31 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Thanks Jerry, made the trip to the marina yesterday and with the longer forestay you produced the mast was raked about 12" back! Much different position than previously where is was straight up if not a bit raked forward. To get the cockpit benches level I had to remove the 7.5hp outboard (glad that thing stays in place all year) and stood forward in the cockpit. The backstay is being shortened at Annapolis rigging so the rig should be in a much better state for the next sail. I have a new main but it was hooking to windward fairly severely along a line at the front of the battens. My sailing book said this would happen if the mast if too far forward so I am hoping this solves the issue with the main. Anyone have any experience with this they could offer?
Thanks Robbin
jerry wrote:
Robbin- the boat will float bow down with nobody in the cockpit. Theoretically the seats should be level with a couple of people fwd in the cockpit.
Jerry jerrymontgomery.org
----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:34 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I also have new standing rigging which is not right and have to have a new backstay made (old rigging was lost when the new stuff was made), so I need to measure with the mast raked correctly. I am going to use the halyard with the boat floating and me not on it to get the correct mast position. I cannot think of another way to do it. I will try and see if the benches or cockpit floor register level with the boat floating. Then if they are they could be used as a reference on the trailer.
Robbin
Tim Diebert wrote:
Right....sorry......I actually was wondering if the cockpit sole...the
berth
decks ....the cockpit benches....or whatever is a level reference. That way I can easily level the boat fore and aft on the trailer and try
and
have a reference starting point for mast rake. Rather than using a
painted
on water line that has been tweaked by PO's. I have new standing rig on the boat and am playing with rake. I reckon I have it too far right now but would like to try the recommended point.
If
the boat is not level....using the halyard method isn't going to work. Unless I am missing something.....then that would make an even dozen for today. Tim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tom Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:38 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I don't know what has been said by others, but you might borrow one of
those
inexpensive infrared thermometers and find where the temp changes on the hull. I do it to find the level of heating oil in my tank, but have not tried it myself on less conductive fiberglass.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Tim Diebert Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:29 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: M_Boats: Level Reference
I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference relative
to
water line?
I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some
help
would be grand.
Tim and PUFF
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release Date: 6/18/2008
7:09 AM
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
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Jerry, I probably did not describe this very accurately. But what it says in my book, Colgate's basic sailing theory, is that adjusting the backstay properly would free the Leech of the sail which they show as hooking to weather. Essentially the picture is a nice foil shape on the sail until right in front of the battens where it hooks to the weather side destroying the shape. There is a sharp discontinuity or angle in the sail shape right in front of the battern area or a line as you say. This is exactly what I was seeing with my new main. The back one fifth of the sail is at an angle to the rest of the sail. There is a line or fold in the sail right in front of the battens so the battens/Leech form what looks like an angle of 30 or 45 degrees to the rest of the sail. The sail manufacturer suggested working with the down haul to try and correct this which I have not tried yet. I was going to get the rake set and see if that fixed things. According to the picture in the book shortening the distance between the top of the mast and the end of the boom (by adjusting the backstay) will help free the leech or correct this. Now that I look at it though, I am not sure that the mast rake will effect this much since the backstay adjustment they show is bending the mast and I was working on getting the proper rake which is only the angle of the mast not bending it right? What it looked like is that previously the stays had the mast vertical with the halyard/plumb bob falling right next to the mast. The new stay lengths have the halyard about 12" back from the mast base which was what was advised for proper mast rake on the list here. I am a bit perplexed since I am not very knowledgeable on sails and sail tuning nor tuning the rig. I certainly appreciate any suggestions that would help clear this up. Thanks, Robbin jerry wrote:
Hi Robbin- I don't understand your comment about the main hooking to weather in a line at the fron of the battens. Could you elaborate on thaat? Usually a haard line along the front of the battens comes from the battens being too stiff, or a poorly cut/worn out main, and usually it's the ends of the battens, at the leach, that hook to weather.
I foot of rake on the mast doesn't seems too excessive to me, but the definative thing is that the weather helm should be just right.
Jerry jerrymontgomery.org
----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 6:31 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Thanks Jerry, made the trip to the marina yesterday and with the longer forestay you produced the mast was raked about 12" back! Much different position than previously where is was straight up if not a bit raked forward. To get the cockpit benches level I had to remove the 7.5hp outboard (glad that thing stays in place all year) and stood forward in the cockpit. The backstay is being shortened at Annapolis rigging so the rig should be in a much better state for the next sail. I have a new main but it was hooking to windward fairly severely along a line at the front of the battens. My sailing book said this would happen if the mast if too far forward so I am hoping this solves the issue with the main. Anyone have any experience with this they could
offer?
Thanks Robbin
jerry wrote:
Robbin- the boat will float bow down with nobody in the cockpit. Theoretically the seats should be level with a couple of people fwd in
the
cockpit.
Jerry jerrymontgomery.org
----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:34 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I also have new standing rigging which is not right and have to have a new backstay made (old rigging was lost when the new stuff was made),
so
I need to measure with the mast raked correctly. I am going to use the halyard with the boat floating and me not on it to get the correct mast position. I cannot think of another way to do it. I will try and see if the benches or cockpit floor register level with the boat floating. Then if they are they could be used as a reference on the trailer.
Robbin
Tim Diebert wrote:
Right....sorry......I actually was wondering if the cockpit sole...the
berth
decks ....the cockpit benches....or whatever is a level reference. That way I can easily level the boat fore and aft on the trailer and
try
and
have a reference starting point for mast rake. Rather than using a
painted
on water line that has been tweaked by PO's. I have new standing rig on the boat and am playing with rake. I reckon
I
have it too far right now but would like to try the recommended point.
If
the boat is not level....using the halyard method isn't going to work. Unless I am missing something.....then that would make an even dozen
for
today. Tim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
Tom
Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:38 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I don't know what has been said by others, but you might borrow one of
those
inexpensive infrared thermometers and find where the temp changes on
the
hull. I do it to find the level of heating oil in my tank, but have
not
tried it myself on less conductive fiberglass.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
Tim
Diebert Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:29 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: M_Boats: Level Reference
I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference
relative
to
water line?
I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some
help
would be grand.
Tim and PUFF
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Robbin- I can't see where mast rake could have any effect on your problem. Mast bending could have a big effect (On a masthead rig like the 17, loading up the backstay doesn't bend the mast, it just puts more tension on the headstay. That would effect the shape of the jib but not the main) on your batten problem but that won't happen with the 17 w/o a baby stay or fore-and-aft lowers. I'm guessing that you have a sail problem or a too-stiff batten problem. The draft in a sail is done in two different ways; luff curve, which is simply a convex curve in the luff of the sail while on the table, and seam taper which is in the seams between panels of the sail. I don't claim to know what I'm talking about but I think maybe if the seam taper is carried too far aft that the excess material there could cause a fold along the forward ends of the battens. First thing I'd do would be to get some softer battens (or taper the ones you have) and if that doesn't help, call the saialmaker again. If he brings up the mast rake thing, remind him that it's a masthead rig with single lowers, and if he doesn't understand the significance of that then he needs to understand things better! You want a new sail or your money back. Go to Harry Pattison or Kern Ferguson in Newport Beach and you won't have the problem. Actually, most sailmakers surviving today are very good and know 100 times more about sails than me. Luff tension would have a small effect on that fold, but not much unless it's in a real blow. If you give the sail just enough tension to pull the wrinkles out, you shouldn't have the folds. Jerry jerrymontgomery.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Sunday, June 22, 2008 7:11 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Jerry, I probably did not describe this very accurately. But what it says in my book, Colgate's basic sailing theory, is that adjusting the backstay properly would free the Leech of the sail which they show as hooking to weather. Essentially the picture is a nice foil shape on the sail until right in front of the battens where it hooks to the weather side destroying the shape. There is a sharp discontinuity or angle in the sail shape right in front of the battern area or a line as you say. This is exactly what I was seeing with my new main. The back one fifth of the sail is at an angle to the rest of the sail. There is a line or fold in the sail right in front of the battens so the battens/Leech form what looks like an angle of 30 or 45 degrees to the rest of the sail. The sail manufacturer suggested working with the down haul to try and correct this which I have not tried yet. I was going to get the rake set and see if that fixed things. According to the picture in the book shortening the distance between the top of the mast and the end of the boom (by adjusting the backstay) will help free the leech or correct this. Now that I look at it though, I am not sure that the mast rake will effect this much since the backstay adjustment they show is bending the mast and I was working on getting the proper rake which is only the angle of the mast not bending it right? What it looked like is that previously the stays had the mast vertical with the halyard/plumb bob falling right next to the mast. The new stay lengths have the halyard about 12" back from the mast base which was what was advised for proper mast rake on the list here. I am a bit perplexed since I am not very knowledgeable on sails and sail tuning nor tuning the rig. I certainly appreciate any suggestions that would help clear this up.
Thanks, Robbin
jerry wrote:
Hi Robbin- I don't understand your comment about the main hooking to weather in a line at the fron of the battens. Could you elaborate on thaat? Usually a haard line along the front of the battens comes from the battens being too stiff, or a poorly cut/worn out main, and usually it's the ends of the battens, at the leach, that hook to weather.
I foot of rake on the mast doesn't seems too excessive to me, but the definative thing is that the weather helm should be just right.
Jerry jerrymontgomery.org
----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2008 6:31 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Thanks Jerry, made the trip to the marina yesterday and with the longer forestay you produced the mast was raked about 12" back! Much different position than previously where is was straight up if not a bit raked forward. To get the cockpit benches level I had to remove the 7.5hp outboard (glad that thing stays in place all year) and stood forward in the cockpit. The backstay is being shortened at Annapolis rigging so the rig should be in a much better state for the next sail. I have a new main but it was hooking to windward fairly severely along a line at the front of the battens. My sailing book said this would happen if the mast if too far forward so I am hoping this solves the issue with the main. Anyone have any experience with this they could
offer?
Thanks Robbin
jerry wrote:
Robbin- the boat will float bow down with nobody in the cockpit. Theoretically the seats should be level with a couple of people fwd in
the
cockpit.
Jerry jerrymontgomery.org
----- Original Message ----- From: "robbin roddewig" <robbin.roddewig@verizon.net> To: "For and about Montgomery Sailboats" <montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com> Sent: Thursday, June 19, 2008 4:34 AM Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I also have new standing rigging which is not right and have to have a new backstay made (old rigging was lost when the new stuff was made),
so
I need to measure with the mast raked correctly. I am going to use the halyard with the boat floating and me not on it to get the correct mast position. I cannot think of another way to do it. I will try and see if the benches or cockpit floor register level with the boat floating. Then if they are they could be used as a reference on the trailer.
Robbin
Tim Diebert wrote:
Right....sorry......I actually was wondering if the cockpit sole...the
berth
decks ....the cockpit benches....or whatever is a level reference. That way I can easily level the boat fore and aft on the trailer and
try
and
have a reference starting point for mast rake. Rather than using a
painted
on water line that has been tweaked by PO's. I have new standing rig on the boat and am playing with rake. I reckon
I
have it too far right now but would like to try the recommended point.
If
the boat is not level....using the halyard method isn't going to work. Unless I am missing something.....then that would make an even dozen
for
today. Tim
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
Tom
Jenkins Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 8:38 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: Re: M_Boats: Level Reference
Tim, I don't know what has been said by others, but you might borrow one of
those
inexpensive infrared thermometers and find where the temp changes on
the
hull. I do it to find the level of heating oil in my tank, but have
not
tried it myself on less conductive fiberglass.
Tom Jenkins M17 Scintilla
-----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of
Tim
Diebert Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2008 5:29 AM To: 'For and about Montgomery Sailboats' Subject: M_Boats: Level Reference
I know it was asked but did not see a reply. Is there an area of the 17 hull that is a known level reference
relative
to
water line?
I don't always read all the emails......so if anyone got this one some
help
would be grand.
Tim and PUFF
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________
http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
_______________________________________________ http://mailman.xmission.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/montgomery_boats
-- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.0/1507 - Release Date:
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7:09 AM
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9:27 AM
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participants (9)
-
David Schuster -
Howard Audsley -
jerry -
paint4real＠aol.com -
RandyG -
robbin roddewig -
Ronnie Keeler -
Tim Diebert -
Tom Jenkins