I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion. Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto -- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
you MU :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Paul McAleavy <rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net
wrote:
I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion.
Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
sorry ... computer decided to send as i was typing. you MUST have a vang ... it minimum to keep the boom from rising when sailing off the wind. loose footed is wonderful. makes the sail shape better and provides for easier adjustment of the sail's draft using outhaul. NOTE: the sail needs to have proper reinforcement at the clew and tack. :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
you MU
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion.
Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
Funny, I was thinking about this question myself as I start to anticipate sailing season... Same goes for M17 I assume. My old '74 has foot in track. Key question would seem to be whether clew and tack are strong enough...how do we determine if we have "proper" reinforcement, Dave (or anyone else who can respond to that...)? cheers, John S. On 03/14/2017 02:41 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
sorry ... computer decided to send as i was typing.
you MUST have a vang ... it minimum to keep the boom from rising when sailing off the wind.
loose footed is wonderful. makes the sail shape better and provides for easier adjustment of the sail's draft using outhaul. NOTE: the sail needs to have proper reinforcement at the clew and tack.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
you MU
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion.
Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Sails designed for a loose foot usually have a roach added along the foot of the sail to help "capture" the air flow. A sail cut for a bolt rope usually has a small shelf built into the foot to assist in this capture as well as shape the sail for lighter conditions. I don't think using a sail cut for a bolt rope foot as a loose foot ( not threading the bolt rope in the track) will enhance sailing performance. It is more a useful decision when ordering a new main. In this case I also prefer a loose foot. Thanks Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas The Day" On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:46 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Funny, I was thinking about this question myself as I start to anticipate sailing season...
Same goes for M17 I assume. My old '74 has foot in track.
Key question would seem to be whether clew and tack are strong enough...how do we determine if we have "proper" reinforcement, Dave (or anyone else who can respond to that...)?
cheers, John S.
On 03/14/2017 02:41 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
sorry ... computer decided to send as i was typing.
you MUST have a vang ... it minimum to keep the boom from rising when sailing off the wind.
loose footed is wonderful. makes the sail shape better and provides for easier adjustment of the sail's draft using outhaul. NOTE: the sail needs to have proper reinforcement at the clew and tack.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
you MU
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but
recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion.
Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
Thanks Doug, & Dave...I can recall seeing the "shelf" you mention in my main when there's no reef in. When someone saw a pic of my boat under sail and said my "first reef" may be what's called a "flattening reef" it all makes sense, because when I use the first set of reef points I get a definitely flatter foot of the main without that "shelf" at the bottom, and with the reef out it does have a bit of a "pocket" above the shelf for light air sail shape. This isn't the original main, though I did get that with the boat...this is a newer main bought by a previous owner, by North Sails, three reef points, including the first rather small "flattening" one, a more significant second, and a pretty deep third. I've only ever used the first/flattening one so far. cheers, John S. On 03/14/2017 03:17 PM, Douglas Kelch wrote:
Sails designed for a loose foot usually have a roach added along the foot of the sail to help "capture" the air flow. A sail cut for a bolt rope usually has a small shelf built into the foot to assist in this capture as well as shape the sail for lighter conditions. I don't think using a sail cut for a bolt rope foot as a loose foot ( not threading the bolt rope in the track) will enhance sailing performance.
It is more a useful decision when ordering a new main. In this case I also prefer a loose foot.
Thanks
Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas The Day"
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:46 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Funny, I was thinking about this question myself as I start to anticipate sailing season...
Same goes for M17 I assume. My old '74 has foot in track.
Key question would seem to be whether clew and tack are strong enough...how do we determine if we have "proper" reinforcement, Dave (or anyone else who can respond to that...)?
cheers, John S.
On 03/14/2017 02:41 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
sorry ... computer decided to send as i was typing.
you MUST have a vang ... it minimum to keep the boom from rising when sailing off the wind.
loose footed is wonderful. makes the sail shape better and provides for easier adjustment of the sail's draft using outhaul. NOTE: the sail needs to have proper reinforcement at the clew and tack.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
you MU
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but
recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion.
Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
I had my old Main re cut to loose foot when I had it refurbished by Sail Care this included the reinforcement of Clew & Tack. All at an extremely good price, George "We Can Not Control the Wind But We Can Adjust Our Sails" On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 6:31 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Thanks Doug, & Dave...I can recall seeing the "shelf" you mention in my main when there's no reef in.
When someone saw a pic of my boat under sail and said my "first reef" may be what's called a "flattening reef" it all makes sense, because when I use the first set of reef points I get a definitely flatter foot of the main without that "shelf" at the bottom, and with the reef out it does have a bit of a "pocket" above the shelf for light air sail shape.
This isn't the original main, though I did get that with the boat...this is a newer main bought by a previous owner, by North Sails, three reef points, including the first rather small "flattening" one, a more significant second, and a pretty deep third. I've only ever used the first/flattening one so far.
cheers, John S.
On 03/14/2017 03:17 PM, Douglas Kelch wrote:
Sails designed for a loose foot usually have a roach added along the foot of the sail to help "capture" the air flow. A sail cut for a bolt rope usually has a small shelf built into the foot to assist in this capture as well as shape the sail for lighter conditions. I don't think using a sail cut for a bolt rope foot as a loose foot ( not threading the bolt rope in the track) will enhance sailing performance.
It is more a useful decision when ordering a new main. In this case I also prefer a loose foot.
Thanks
Doug Kelch M15G #310 "Seas The Day"
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 2:46 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Funny, I was thinking about this question myself as I start to anticipate
sailing season...
Same goes for M17 I assume. My old '74 has foot in track.
Key question would seem to be whether clew and tack are strong enough...how do we determine if we have "proper" reinforcement, Dave (or anyone else who can respond to that...)?
cheers, John S.
On 03/14/2017 02:41 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
sorry ... computer decided to send as i was typing.
you MUST have a vang ... it minimum to keep the boom from rising when sailing off the wind.
loose footed is wonderful. makes the sail shape better and provides for easier adjustment of the sail's draft using outhaul. NOTE: the sail needs to have proper reinforcement at the clew and tack.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
you MU
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but
recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion.
Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
--
John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design -------------------------------------------- - Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
"clew and tack are strong enough...how do we determine if we have "proper" reinforcement" first is if the sail wasn't loose foot to start the clew and tack are very likely not strong enough. this is especially true for an older sail. when i had some 'extend the life' work done to to my M17 main, including making the sail loose foot, Harry, with E/P sailmakers, reinforced the clew/tack. as DougK stated recutting an old sail will result in a sail/boat that will not be up to 'best performance'. a good main is VERY IMPORTANT to getting the M15 to sail well (also on the M17, but not quite as much because the M17 is a masthead rig and has a backstay ... the genoa/jib on the M17 is a greater part of the running rig than on the M15). a poorly cut/shaped main will make the M15 sail like a dog. the 3/4 rig is driven by the main and a poor sail makes for an unhappy sailor! to add - you want a cunningham on your main. this is an important sail control in adjusting the main's shape by adjusting the luff tension (as done tightening the jib's halyard). :: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:46 PM, John Schinnerer <john@eco-living.net> wrote:
Funny, I was thinking about this question myself as I start to anticipate sailing season...
Same goes for M17 I assume. My old '74 has foot in track.
Key question would seem to be whether clew and tack are strong enough...how do we determine if we have "proper" reinforcement, Dave (or anyone else who can respond to that...)?
cheers, John S.
On 03/14/2017 02:41 PM, Dave Scobie wrote:
sorry ... computer decided to send as i was typing.
you MUST have a vang ... it minimum to keep the boom from rising when sailing off the wind.
loose footed is wonderful. makes the sail shape better and provides for easier adjustment of the sail's draft using outhaul. NOTE: the sail needs to have proper reinforcement at the clew and tack.
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:39 PM, Dave Scobie <scoobscobie@gmail.com> wrote:
you MU
:: Dave Scobie :: former M15 owner #288 - http://www.freewebs.com/m15-name-scred :: M17 #375 SWEET PEA - http://www.m17-375.webs.com :: Sage 17 #1 - AIR BORN - http://sagemarine.us/sage_17.html :: Sage 15 sloop #001 - ASOLARE - http://sagemarine.us/sage_15.html :: SageCat #000 - SAGECAT - http://sagemarine.us/sagecat.html
On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 3:36 PM, Paul McAleavy < rpmscreenprint@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but
recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion.
Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto
-- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
-- John Schinnerer - M.A., Whole Systems Design
- Eco-Living - Whole Systems Design Services People - Place - Learning - Integration john@eco-living.net - 510.982.1334 http://eco-living.net http://sociocracyconsulting.com
When I bought a new main for my M-17 in 2010 I didn't realize that I had ordered a loose-footed sail. It turned out to be a happy accident. I like the fact that I have much more control over draft. My mainsheet runs from mid-boom to a traveler at the forward end of the cockpit, and I have not found a need for a vang. Rich Makela M-17 #233 - Harmony -----Original Message----- From: montgomery_boats [mailto:montgomery_boats-bounces@mailman.xmission.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAleavy Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2017 4:37 PM To: montgomery_boats@mailman.xmission.com Subject: M_Boats: Loose foot or not? I have been sailing my M15 with the main fitted in the boom groove but recently it has been suggested that flying it loose footed, with only tack and clew fastened, will improve performance. I have also been advised both for and against adding a boom vang. I appeal to this forum for an experienced opinion. Thanks, Paul, M15 #471 Callisto -- Paul McAleavy 608-576-9006 Contract Customizing
participants (6)
-
Dave Scobie -
Douglas Kelch -
George Iemmolo -
John Schinnerer -
Paul McAleavy -
Rich Makela